So if Obama is Elected...

medicineman said:

Who ever said politics was civil. I guess you haven't been reading these posts for any time: Try this one by Dave: "I'll knock your cum stained teeth down your motherfucking throat", now does that sound civil? I guess you must hang out on a civilized site. It seems like threats like that on any other site would be grounds for exclusion, But I can take it,and I might add, dish it out a little also. This is far from being a civilized site. The very nature of politics brings out the best and the worst in men/women. I do believe though, that it is possible without expanding great energy to separate the hydrogen from the oxygen and reinsert them into an explosion in an ICE. I believe this world saving technology is being withheld from us by the Powers that be, Think about it, hydrogen driven generators to make power, then the water vapor exhaust being reinserted into the atmosphere, a continous cycle of basically free energy. Why would we need the power company. Can you see the reasons they are witholding this energy source. Have you ever witnessed a brown gas generator, a simple way to extract hydrogen from the water. check one out. They have the one I'm thinking about on ebay for about 300.00. Claims to improve Gas mileage from 20-50-60%. At 4.00+++ a gallon, that would only take about ten tankfuls to repay itself, then it would save you a bundle. BTW it only takes between 10-30 amps@12 volts to Mfgr that gas, something any car can accept without any problems.

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medicineman said:

Obama, the better choice of the two, get used to it, it aint gonna change anytime soon. The American people are way too comfortable in their easy chairs and big screen TVs to get excited about politics. The Gas prices are pissing them off, but no-one knows what to do about it. Me, if I had the power, I'd nationalize the oil companies and reduce gas prices to a tolerable level, then begin in earnest taking a real look at the water car. I'm sure if we can walk on the moon we can find a way to separate oxygen and hydrogen and then re-introduce them into the internal combustion engine in a compatible way for combustion. I'll bet it is really pretty simple and has already been done, but subdued for the oil company's benefit. There are actually plans on the internet that aren't all that complex, but I have my doubts about them, especially the ones for sale. I'm really looking into the Brown gas compromise, that may help a little,

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ceestyle said:

You do understand that science trumps your intuition, right?

If what you are proposing was true, then perpetual motion machines would exist, energy would be free, and we wouldn't have the problems we do now. On the other hand we wouldn't live on earth ... or in this universe, for that matter. What you are saying is equivalent to saying that if I hold a ball 1 meter above the ground, it can bounce higher than one meter on the rebound.

If you think that the oil companies are powerful enough to stop the development of FREE energy, you are fucking retarded.

If you can't respect science, you're stupid. If you don't know well enough to say you don't know enough to form an opinion, you are totally useless.

You might as well tell me we needn't worry about energy, as a flying spaghetti monster will be around shortly to produce it all for free. Idiot.

How's that for civilized? At least now I know it's pointless to attempt a rational debate with you.

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medicineman said:

So instead of looking into the ideas I presented you have labeled me as stupid and useless, there goes civility. You are a troll and an asshole. I figure you just showed up to give someone some shit you asswipe. If you are too STUPID to look for yourself and don't believe the oil companies are powerful ernough to keep this from us then it is you who are stupid. I already told you to look at the HHO and you are calling me stupid. Fuck you! that's the end of civility with you Cee, I believe you and I have had differences of opinion before on this site and instead of having a conversation, you just started shit, I should have remembered your tired ass, fuck off and live in your blessed ignorance.

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VTXDave said:

I know what I'm going to do...I'm going to vote for Ron Paul. I'm doing what I can to help my men on a more localized scale by letting them take their company vehicle home when they end their day and they happen to be close to their home. I can't do it all the time of course. It's not much, but they appreciate it when I can authorize it.

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VTXDave said:

I know what I'm going to do...I'm going to vote for Ron Paul. I'm doing what I can to help my men on a more localized scale by letting them take their company vehicle home when they end their day and they happen to be close to their home. I can't do it all the time of course. It's not much, but they appreciate it when I can authorize it.

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ceestyle said:

I have, and there is no source of verifiable information.

Geez, some people is right. You have zero scientific knowledge and no reliable source, yet you spew out this hypothetical energy source as if it's actually meaningful. Typical.

"Yeah, you know what? I heard that we can cure disease by cutting ourselves and letting blood out. I'm not trained in any way concerning medicine, but I'll put my money on that as the future of medicine."

It is incumbent upon you to verify information before you post it.

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smokedoper said:

Well its not water per say. But you could google BMW & Hydrogen Fuel and see what you get.

YouTube - BMW HYDROGEN Car Refuelling

The video showing a BMW car being fueled with hydrogen.

Or, if you are too lazy to type it in. The just click on the link.

bmw & hydrogen fuel - Google Search

Funny, it looks like one part of h2o can be used for fuel "Hydrogen". And you don't have to separate anything. You can create hydrogen without using water. Since you know something about thermodynamics you should check out chemistry "http://www.chemistry.com". Or talk to anyone with a degree in Chemistry. Ask them how hard and how much energy is required to make hydrogen.

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smokedoper said:

Well its not water per say.

For an educated person as you claim. You didn't read this part of my post.

And about electrolysis being the only source of creating hydrogen. You obviously didn't pay attention in school. There are other ways to create hydrogen besides that.

Hydrogen vehicle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

<QUOTE>
The molecular hydrogen needed as an on-board fuel for hydrogen vehicles can be obtained through many thermochemical methods utilizing natural gas, coal (by a process known as coal gasification), liquefied petroleum gas, biomass (biomass gasification), by a process called thermolysis, or as a microbial waste product called biohydrogen or Biological hydrogen production.
</QUOTE>

Smarmy bastard

Must be talking about yourself here. Now next time pay more attention in school. This way you will know for sure there is more than electrolysis to create hydrogen.

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VTXDave said:

... taxes will most assuredly increase, agreed? That got me thinking about my men. Many of my techs are already living on the edge. One of my techs already either has to find a place to stay up here or sleep in the Service Center at night because gasoline prices are killing. I've got another tech that had his propane shut off for months because propane prices are skyrocketing. How are my guys going to survive if the government takes even more from them and they're already teetering on the edge? These guys have families. They have children. I'm afraid I'm going to lose techs not because of a layoff, but simply because they'll not be able to afford high prices and increased taxation coupled with having to commute (high gasoline prices).

Neither candidate seems to be talking about cutting spending from the Federal Gov't and McCain even voted in favor of increasing the Federal deficit to 9 trillion dollars last year.

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ceestyle said:

The original comment was that you could power a vehicle with water. The meaning was that you put water into it, and your car goes. That is a water-powered vehicle. See here.

Taking your interpretation, the fuel-cell vehicle could be a shit-powered car. There's hydrogen in shit, right? Idiot.

No technology can produce hydrogen on demand in a vehicle except for electrolysis - at least none have come close to being demonstrated. Biological production produces hydrogen efficiently, but slowly. You can go down the list of ways to produce it, but energy has to come from somewhere else.

If you take apart water and put it back together, as the original post implied, you must have another energy input to do so, or your energy balance does not work out.

You can change the question to whatever you want, but the response was to the obvious impossibility of what medicineman was suggesting.

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smokedoper said:

Well if electrolysis is the only way to produce hydrogen on demand, then why did I learn this in school. "hydrogen is the most common element in the universe."
Now, I guess you are going to say that electrolysis must be happening everywhere in the universe. And I guess if electrolysis is the only way to create hydrogen on demand then hydrogen would not be the most common element in the universe. So what energy source is used in the universe for it to create hydrogen????

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What about this: And, unlike fossil fuels and traditional petrol, hydrogen is available in virtually infinite supply when renewable energies such as solar, wind and wave power are used to produce the liquid hydrogen. So, if you use solar, wind or wave power you can produce liquid hydrogen. Seems that is what BMW uses to create the liquid hydrogen for the BMW 7 Series Hydrogen car. And if one car company can use solar power to create the liquid hydrogen, then why can't you with your degree in chemical engineering create the same liquid hydrogen using solar power? I'll include a link, but I doubt you will read it. BMW Hydrogen 7 Production

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ceestyle said:

Man, you are a pandora's box of logical fallacies!

We live on earth. At least I do. Our atmosphere is 0.00005% hydrogen, and the most abundant element is silicon. Stars are composed of primarily hydrogen, but there is the little fact that they are really fucking hot and the light years of vacuum between us and them that makes that fact useless.

Until you figure that problem out or find molecular sieves to pull that fraction of hydrogen out of our atmosphere, the point is moot. Why do you think electrolysis is proposed as the source of hydrogen? Because any source of electricity can therefore produce it.



If you had read my posts, I've said all this. Learn to read, moron.

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smokedoper said:

Man, you are a pandora's box of logical fallacies!

Logical Fallacies???? So, you think that science is now logical fallacies?

It's Elemental - The Element Hydrogen
<QUOTE>
Composed of a single proton and a single electron, hydrogen is the simplest and most abundant element in the universe. It is estimated that 90% of the visible universe is composed of hydrogen.
</QUOTE>
Or what about this:
<QUOTE>
Scientists had been producing hydrogen for years before it was recognized as an element. Written records indicate that Robert Boyle produced hydrogen gas as early as 1671 while experimenting with iron and acids. Hydrogen was first recognized as a distinct element by Henry Cavendish in 1766.
</QUOTE>

Now if I'm not mistaken, Robert Boyle produced hydrogen gas in 1671. Now from my calculations that was a few years before electricity was invented. Wasn't it in the 1700's when a inventor/Senator from the British colonies, Commonwealth of Pennsylvania named Benjamin Franklin, that was struck by lightning and said it was electricity. Now here is another source for you to read of a way to create hydrogen without electrolysis.

Now since you have a degree in chemical engineering I'm sure you know who Robert Boyle is, correct. Since he is considered as "The Father of Modern Chemistry".

ROBERT BOYLE
Robert Boyle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And I am sure you have read his best work "The Sceptical Chymist". And if you haven't then you can go here and read it.

SCETI: Science: Boyle's Sceptical Chymist (1661)

And I did read your posts. And you said electrolysis was the only way to create hydrogen on demand. But what I showed was that BMW was not using electrolysis to create the liquid hydrogen they were using in their cars. It seems you should take more time to read and then go to the links provided for your education. Preferably before you resort to childish insults!!!

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ceestyle said:

sorry for the hijack, Dave.

carry on.

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medicineman said:

Obama, the better choice of the two, get used to it, it aint gonna change anytime soon. The American people are way too comfortable in their easy chairs and big screen TVs to get excited about politics. The Gas prices are pissing them off, but no-one knows what to do about it. Me, if I had the power, I'd nationalize the oil companies and reduce gas prices to a tolerable level, then begin in earnest taking a real look at the water car. I'm sure if we can walk on the moon we can find a way to separate oxygen and hydrogen and then re-introduce them into the internal combustion engine in a compatible way for combustion. I'll bet it is really pretty simple and has already been done, but subdued for the oil company's benefit. There are actually plans on the internet that aren't all that complex, but I have my doubts about them, especially the ones for sale. I'm really looking into the Brown gas compromise, that may help a little,

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