SIP thread -- (Sub-Irrigated Planter)

[Evil-Mobo]

That was my original motivation... Fool proof auto-water. Not to mention that it stays easy the whole time. Just fill before leaving and there is a ten day window.

I'm going to work on a vegg system soon so I can leave the entire grow unattended for 7-10days as needed...

Hydro roots and hydro growth in organic soil! Let me tell you, I feel like I've found the grail.. Lol

coming from a DWC setup prior to my SIP's this is exactly how I feel!

 

[captainmorgan]

The Octopot has a cone shaped plastic part like a net pot at the bottom for the roots to grow through,some people run them with 5 gal buckets with holes drilled in them instead of the fabric sleeve and cone. They work without a air stone but actually work better with one,I use two low profile stones in mine,one on each side.

 

[GroErr]

That was my original motivation... Fool proof auto-water. Not to mention that it stays easy the whole time. Just fill before leaving and there is a ten day window.

I'm going to work on a vegg system soon so I can leave the entire grow unattended for 7-10days as needed...

Hydro roots and hydro growth in organic soil! Let me tell you, I feel like I've found the grail.. Lol

lol, every time I see the word "grail" my mind wanders to a scene from The Life of Brian where they're all signing while hanging from crosses. Your plants look like they're signing so you're doing something right 10-14 days would be awesome, and veg is definitely in the cards for me. Blu-mat's can handle the party cups and small one gallons but veg and flowering would need some form of SIP or drip system. Not crazy about the drip systems, have one but a lot of setup required for temporary setups, plus they keep them alive, but not thriving which seems to be the case with these SIPs.

 

[vostok]

Sub-irrigated planter
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Sub-Irrigated Planter
Sub-irrigated planter (SIP) is a generic name for a special type of planting box used in container gardening and commercial landscaping. A SIP is any method of watering plants where the water is introduced from the bottom, allowing the water to soak upwards to the plant through capillary action.[1] It is possible to automate the watering and thus SIPs are popular with professional landscapers in buildings or urban settings. SIPs are available as products, under brand names such as Planter Technology[2] (commercial) and EarthBox[3] (consumer), Ollie Plant Sipper[4](consumer), The Refuge Garden (www.urbanrefugegardening.com) (consumer/commercial) or as do-it-yourselfprojects made from plastic buckets and boxes.[5]Would love to hear about your experiments, projects, failures and successes.

Back in the 1980's I tried this technique, for several months, until my mentor discovered it,...lol

and kicked my butt..This idea works well, for many plants but not weed!

weed is a semi wood plant, it 'enjoys' that dry bit between watering s

the association of air and water is very tight with weed, with the above setup, theirs not enough air in the water

if it was aerated with a pump then this would work well

This is a great method if you are away for 1-2 weeks with nobody to help you out

besides .. I can't think of an easier way to breed bugs and flies

my2c

good luck

 

[Humanrob]

@vostok -- some good points. Letting them dry out also (from what I've read) makes them less susceptible to PM. I've been wondering about all of this, and I look forward to seeing how the res's look after someone flowers for a long Sativa run, like 11 weeks. Depending on ambient temps/water temps, how much air movement is going on in the res, whether you are using well or city water, etc., there may be limits to how long a res can run before it gets mucked up. And mucked up might still be OK... it remains to be seen.

 

[vostok]

One of the most common replies here on RIU has to be

'Lift your pot before you water' check that weight..?

cause if you don't, you are just pouring more water into that soil blowing out even more air

and its this air that them root hairs need

fuck Rob now I'm rolling ...lol

some serious magic shit happens with roots

1: the plants sweats out some ouzzie slime to the rootlets

2: fungi spores in the soil helps it out in exchange for nutes

3: the ouzzie melts and sucks up nutes in the soil

4: the plant sends them nutes upstairs to return later to store in the roots as carbohydrates

air during this growing operation is just as important as water

its important that you let the plant decide on weather it wants/needs water or air at any given time

see this weed thing as a pet rather than as a machine, will give you ample dividends each time

good luck thanks for the Rant/...lol

 

[Humanrob]

One of the most common replies here on RIU has to be

'Lift your pot before you water' check that weight..?

cause if you don't, you are just pouring more water into that soil blowing out even more air

and its this air that them root hairs need

fuck Rob now I'm rolling ...lol

some serious magic shit happens with roots

1: the plants sweats out some ouzzie slime to the rootlets

2: fungi spores in the soil helps it out in exchange for nutes

3: the ouzzie melts and sucks up nutes in the soil

4: the plant sends them nutes upstairs to return later to store in the roots as carbohydrates

air during this growing operation is just as important as water

its important that you let the plant decide on weather it wants/needs water or air at any given time

see this weed thing as a pet rather than as a machine, will give you ample dividends each time

good luck thanks for the Rant/...lol

I am not top watering, the soil has a gradation from dry to wet, a lot like the ground. I'm also using a loose soil mix with lots of perlite, and since I am not top watering the soil does not get compacted over time, it remains loose, and therefore I think aerated.

I'm not an expert, but as I understand it the plant will develop "water roots" that will tap into the reservoir, and they can handle a lot of water. The res pretty much (but not completely) empties between fillings, so there is an air exchange there. There is also an air gap between the water and the soil, so the soil is not sitting in water, the lower part stays moist equal to the rate it can wick water. All that and an air stone in my res, and I think I'm going to be OK. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[Will Thayer]

Hello Vostok,
Thanks for adding to the discussion. I agree that cannabis has a preference for an oxygenated root zone. Felt pots are known to dry out faster than plastic ones. They also should contribute to air exchange to some extent. Perhaps the combination of felt pots with small reservoirs and the makeup of your soil mix is the answer.
After hearing Captainmorgan's experiences with air stones and octopots, the addition of air stones would seem to prove beneficial. I think the root zone will thrive as long as it is not anaerobic. Though not particularly my cup of tea, many growers have had great success with DWC. Even though their medium is oxygenated water.
The old adage of lifting the pots before watering is tried and true. The practice is good to avoid over watering (anaerobic root zone) and leaching of nutrients from your soil. I think what appeals to me about subirrigation is the ability to water the plants without disturbing the soil by either compaction or leaching.

Reading your posts I gather you are a gardener with many years of experience who knows that building a good soil with the right balance and healthy micro herd takes time and patience. I am cursed by my obsession to forever tinker with my garden. After listening to folks opinions and weighing up their results. I still have the need to experiment. If a new technique proves successful I feel like I have grown (shameless pun) as a gardener.

Cheers,
Will

 

[GroErr]

This is a great method if you are away for 1-2 weeks with nobody to help you out

This is exactly why I'm going to give it a shot, can't f'up too much in a week so if they keep the plants happy for a week at a time they'll have served their purpose for me. A simple/cheap design that can be setup a couple of hours before you hop on a plane would be great.

That said, watching some grows where they're taking them through flowering like SG's. It'll be interesting if this method is successful throughout veg/flowering. I'm sure the first people who tried the many hydro methods used today were chastised for doing shit that didn't fit into the rule books. Cheers.

 

[Evil-Mobo]

This is exactly why I'm going to give it a shot, can't f'up too much in a week so if they keep the plants happy for a week at a time they'll have served their purpose for me. A simple/cheap design that can be setup a couple of hours before you hop on a plane would be great.

That said, watching some grows where they're taking them through flowering like SG's. It'll be interesting if this method is successful throughout veg/flowering. I'm sure the first people who tried the many hydro methods used today were chastised for doing shit that didn't fit into the rule books. Cheers.

From my experience so far how long you can stay away is dependent on of course the size of your Res, but also how much the plant is drinking which can vary greatly from strain to strain. My one Sativa drink almost twice as much as my Indica dom plant at the moment. There's no way I could be away for two weeks from these plants with my setup, but I knew that going into it. I think with all the experimenting we (those of us using SIP's) are doing we will find there will be a point of "too much res" we just need to find out exactly what that point is.

I have a huge Rubbermaid Brute here begging for a SIP setup, but I am closely watching Rob's setup before proceeding, as he is having issues with PM and dirty water in the res. My res water has been crystal clear thus far, but my water is also not sitting around as long as it's a smaller res and being used by the plants, and I have the res bubbling.....

 

[Tim Fox]

Personally I would do more of a wick will. No need to drill holes in the plastic. in the octopot design the roots grow from the wick into the water. So more wick = more roots. With that big of a soft pot and that small of a rez you will be refilling often. So no worries about standing water IMO. Airstones are like a turbo charger for this type of growing though.

I'm running 10gl pots w 3-4gl of wick (so 13gl -/+). They are on top of a 27gl rez and I am now filling once every 7-10 days in flower. When I fill there is usually 2" of water in the tub and I'm putting about 18-19gl of water in when filling up.

Picture is worth a thousand words right?
View attachment 3677289 View attachment 3677291 View attachment 3677292

Ok I am far from a math wizard, but If i did it somewhat close, your using 1 gallon of water per day? more or less?

 

[Tim Fox]

That was my original motivation... Fool proof auto-water. Not to mention that it stays easy the whole time. Just fill before leaving and there is a ten day window.

I'm going to work on a vegg system soon so I can leave the entire grow unattended for 7-10days as needed...

Hydro roots and hydro growth in organic soil! Let me tell you, I feel like I've found the grail.. Lol

Yup,,, the Holy Grail,,

 

[GroErr]

From my experience so far how long you can stay away is dependent on of course the size of your Res, but also how much the plant is drinking which can vary greatly from strain to strain. My one Sativa drink almost twice as much as my Indica dom plant at the moment. There's no way I could be away for two weeks from these plants with my setup, but I knew that going into it. I think with all the experimenting we (those of us using SIP's) are doing we will find there will be a point of "too much res" we just need to find out exactly what that point is.

I have a huge Rubbermaid Brute here begging for a SIP setup, but I am closely watching Rob's setup before proceeding, as he is having issues with PM and dirty water in the res. My res water has been crystal clear thus far, but my water is also not sitting around as long as it's a smaller res and being used by the plants, and I have the res bubbling.....

Yeah strain/pheno can certainly be different but the container size, environment and res size will be the bigger factors. Why I'm trying to essentially use the whole container for water (other than the space the wick and air space take). And yes, no matter how you cut it or try and slow down evaporation, adding water to your room will increase RH so there has to be a balance.

 

[Evil-Mobo]

Yeah strain/pheno can certainly be different but the container size, environment and res size will be the bigger factors. Why I'm trying to essentially use the whole container for water (other than the space the wick and air space take). And yes, no matter how you cut it or try and slow down evaporation, adding water to your room will increase RH so there has to be a balance.

Yes and where I am humiditiy is already high to begin with lol...... many factors, no two SIP's will be the same......

 

[GroErr]

Yes and where I am humiditiy is already high to begin with lol...... many factors, no two SIP's will be the same......

Yeah, same here, always fighting to keep my RH down so should be interesting to see what happens if I throw 8x 3.5gal buckets of water into the room. They'd work great in that respect in really dry climates.

 

[Humanrob]

Yeah, same here, always fighting to keep my RH down so should be interesting to see what happens if I throw 8x 3.5gal buckets of water into the room. They'd work great in that respect in really dry climates.

Yeah, I think some of the first people to use these were in drought situations, because top watering a garden is so wasteful.

I have a huge Rubbermaid Brute here begging for a SIP setup, but I am closely watching Rob's setup before proceeding, as he is having issues with PM and dirty water in the res. My res water has been crystal clear thus far, but my water is also not sitting around as long as it's a smaller res and being used by the plants, and I have the res bubbling.....

I think my cloudy water issues was an imperfect storm of errors. First, I used FF Marine Cuisine that I had left over, as part of my soil mix. Apparently MC is a mix of time release and some salt-based nutes. Then I was putting it together on a day I had too much going on, and I forgot to wet each layer as I went, so to make sure it was soaked through and would wick I top watered the heck out of it when I transplaned the plants in. I think the combination of over-saturation to the point of seeping into the res, and water-born nitrogen from the fast dissolving salt-based nutes, made my water ripe for life (based on things I've been reading). Add to that the kink in the bubbler line and no oxygen getting to the water, with stagnant nitrogen rich water would have been enough to cause my issues (that's my hypothesis anyway). The point is, mine is so far an anomaly. It can happen, but should be easy to avoid.

Edit: and I forgot one factor -- we had a bit of a heat wave and my grow room got very warm. There were times when it was up to 88º in the tent. Add warmth to that mix... bacteria heaven.

 

[captainmorgan]

Been using the Octopots for quite some time now and love them,never had any res issues or bug problems,get a few fungus gnats now and then but they come in the soil and are easy to get rid of,I normally have some spring tails in the res but they are harmless. I get crazy growth and yield with them and don't have to water/feed them every day,in heavy flower I have to fill them every other day but in veg maybe every 5 days or more. I was skeptical at first but they work great for me,I have a pic in one of my threads of two clones,one put into a regular pot and one into the octopot,after about two weeks the octopot plant was like twice the size of the other.

 

[Will Thayer]

I am in the process of making Lactobacillus serum. I used rice wash mixed with barley and alfalfa wash. I put it in a bowl in a warm room. Within a day there was all kinds of life going on. Your conclusions sound legit. There is loads of bacteria in the air, run off from your soil will be teeming with all sorts of critters. Add a food source and away life goes. Even though it has buggered your res, it is still pretty cool that life is all around us just trying to live.

I am sure each of us will dial in our own SIPs eventually. It is good to hear others experiences and opinions. Good or bad, if it has substance it has merit.

Captainmorgan, The octopot looks the business. If they are available over here(U.K.) I would imagine they would be pricey. They are something I would look at purchasing if available at the right money. The earthbox is available here but they are asking too much coin for it in Europe.

Cheers,
Will

 

[SomeGuy]

Although mine are larger diy ones they are built relatively the same as an octopot. OMG. So bad ass. Exactly this kind of growth. I think the soil part of the equation helps buffer any problems with the roots that are in the rez. They drink very fast.

Been using the Octopots for quite some time now and love them,never had any res issues or bug problems,get a few fungus gnats now and then but they come in the soil and are easy to get rid of,I normally have some spring tails in the res but they are harmless. I get crazy growth and yield with them and don't have to water/feed them every day,in heavy flower I have to fill them every other day but in veg maybe every 5 days or more. I was skeptical at first but they work great for me,I have a pic in one of my threads of two clones,one put into a regular pot and one into the octopot,after about two weeks the octopot plant was like twice the size of the other.

 

[SomeGuy]

Ok I am far from a math wizard, but If i did it somewhat close, your using 1 gallon of water per day? more or less?

Probably just a bit more. I expect it to gradually increase tbh...lol.

Let me say this. I've done lots of different types of hydro, and grown soil. This is by far the best growth w the least amount of work on my part I have ever seen in almost 10yrs of growing. So I'm already sold. Now I just need to engineer something for vegg that is equally carefree that works well in conjunction w the flower room. Lol