Setting up a new room 7`x14`

Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
Welding supply places and paintball places /sporting goods store are common tank refill options. Sometimes the place wants to rent you a tank and won't refill other tanks (greed). Try to find a place near you that isn't greedy lol. Homebrewers often use it too.

I think the titan controller and autopilot controlles are the same thing with a different box lol. Whatever one you can get cheaper should do the trick. Either one is a newer version of what I am using. Either way I can help you configure it. Once you play with it a little bit you will get it. It's pretty basic. It is ideal to hang the sensor of your co2 controller under the lights at canopy level so it can read exactly what the canopy is. It will see the light thru a photocell and it will only run CO2 enrichment when the lights are on. You can set the humidity and temperature with day and night values. Like say 50% humidity day and 40% night. I have mine set with the cooling output on my intake blower, and I set the night temp to 75 and my day to 91. When the lights go out my AC unit is cutoff by my flip controller (AC units flip with the lights to save power). The controller sees the lights go off and it runs the blower to get it down to the night temp setting giving the room a fresh air exchange. During the light on if the AC unit can't keep up the controller sees it hit 91 and it runs the intake blower to try and cool the room. My side lighting is also on a temperature cutoff switch that can turn off the side lighting if the room hits 91. This setup greatly reduces the chance of burning up a room should the AC unit give you trouble, you just need adequate ventilation so that 10 inch vortex is a great idea. Now my intakes are in a basement window well and I use a dustshroom to keep the intake are clean. Obviously the intake temperature is critical, can't cool a room with hot air. If you go with an exhaust setup you would want a wall vent:

https://www.famcomfg.com/product/hooded-wall-vent-with-spring-loaded-damper-gasket-and-screen-painted/?attribute_pa_size=5f-10inch&attribute_pa_color=83-white&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1_j7w8Gc4gIVVRx9Ch3GKA8dEAQYASABEgKkTfD_BwE

I like the ones without the spring though. Just search google for 10 inch wall vent.

Something else thats handy to have: https://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-Autopilot-Desktop-Monitor-Logger/dp/B01FYWU2IS

Great for detecting microclimates in your room. The monitor / logger can be placed in various locations to see how the temps and humidity varies. You would be surprised. I have three of those and use them a lot. I have one in my tent right now. It's not a must have but handy for sure.

Sorry about the wall of text, that one paragraph got pretty big but I couldn't find a good spot to break it lol. I am pretty high and also cooking dinner so if I confused you just let me know
 
diggs99

diggs99

Well-Known Member
Renfro said:
Welding supply places and paintball places /sporting goods store are common tank refill options. Sometimes the place wants to rent you a tank and won't refill other tanks (greed). Try to find a place near you that isn't greedy lol. Homebrewers often use it too.

I think the titan controller and autopilot controlles are the same thing with a different box lol. Whatever one you can get cheaper should do the trick. Either one is a newer version of what I am using. Either way I can help you configure it. Once you play with it a little bit you will get it. It's pretty basic. It is ideal to hang the sensor of your co2 controller under the lights at canopy level so it can read exactly what the canopy is. It will see the light thru a photocell and it will only run CO2 enrichment when the lights are on. You can set the humidity and temperature with day and night values. Like say 50% humidity day and 40% night. I have mine set with the cooling output on my intake blower, and I set the night temp to 75 and my day to 91. When the lights go out my AC unit is cutoff by my flip controller (AC units flip with the lights to save power). The controller sees the lights go off and it runs the blower to get it down to the night temp setting giving the room a fresh air exchange. During the light on if the AC unit can't keep up the controller sees it hit 91 and it runs the intake blower to try and cool the room. My side lighting is also on a temperature cutoff switch that can turn off the side lighting if the room hits 91. This setup greatly reduces the chance of burning up a room should the AC unit give you trouble, you just need adequate ventilation so that 10 inch vortex is a great idea. Now my intakes are in a basement window well and I use a dustshroom to keep the intake are clean. Obviously the intake temperature is critical, can't cool a room with hot air. If you go with an exhaust setup you would want a wall vent:

https://www.famcomfg.com/product/hooded-wall-vent-with-spring-loaded-damper-gasket-and-screen-painted/?attribute_pa_size=5f-10inch&attribute_pa_color=83-white&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1_j7w8Gc4gIVVRx9Ch3GKA8dEAQYASABEgKkTfD_BwE

I like the ones without the spring though. Just search google for 10 inch wall vent.

Something else thats handy to have: https://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-Autopilot-Desktop-Monitor-Logger/dp/B01FYWU2IS

Great for detecting microclimates in your room. The monitor / logger can be placed in various locations to see how the temps and humidity varies. You would be surprised. I have three of those and use them a lot. I have one in my tent right now. It's not a must have but handy for sure.

Sorry about the wall of text, that one paragraph got pretty big but I couldn't find a good spot to break it lol. I am pretty high and also cooking dinner so if I confused you just let me know
Click to expand...

Nah bro, i appreciate the detailed response, it helps me understand much better.
Im gonna call around town this morning, see where i can find someone selling co2. Theres quite a few weilding shops around.

Between the titan and autopilot controllers, they both seem similar, reviews are all good for both, ill probably just order the autopilot and be done with it lol

I actually have the wall vent purchased already, its almost identical to the one you linked.

I like the desktop autopilots, they seem like they could be valuable in keeping the whole room dialed in how we want it.
 
Nizza

Nizza

Well-Known Member
i like what renfro had to add about an intake filter
I want to build a good intake filter rack to accept a normal size filter for a furnace. they also make this cool filter rack that can take either a 6" media type filter OR a 16x25x1 regular pleated filter. I think this is a great idea it keeps bugs out, keeps the leaves clean also so they can maximize photosynthesis. The downside is it can be restrictive so your going to end up paying more to run an exhaust fan (this would be only at night because running Co2)


ive seen these co2 preforated tubes people put around their plants and understand that you need 80-90 canopy temperature for the plant to metabolize the Co2
There is a humidity controller called inkbird or something i was interested in, I also would love to build a co2 chamber. Mine will be a small scale to get me the idea of what it takes to be able to do a controlled room.

My advice on air conditioning~~ if you can do window a/c units and vent outside the tent and drain them that may be the cheapest and work ok
but the best thing to do (i like fujitsu) is install a ductless , or even a ducted mini split system.

ducted will take up less room inside the tent if you have room to duct it in to your tent and locate the unit somewhere outside. These units can be installed horizontally or vertically so it can actually work out very nice. you can also do better vent locations instead of a head on just one wall with these but now have to worry about cleaning duct instead of just cleaning a mini split head
 
diggs99

diggs99

Well-Known Member
Man this is gonna end up costing me alot more than i expected lol


Renfro, just how important do you consider co2 for an area the size of mine 7x14 (3x12 footprint)

I may have to go a run or two without. Other shit is further up the priority list, and everything costs a fortune lol

So ima go that route, setup the room as if im not gonna run co2, then when im ready and its further up the priority list, ill implement it then.

So what am i looking at? bigger exhaust fan or a 2nd exhaust fan.
Mini split or AC of some kind
Controller to run huey/dehuey/lights

ill still want temps in mid 80s or higher , not sure how much heat 1440 watts of strips are gonna produce, i assume drivers wil give off some heat. Summer months shouldnt be an issue as ambient rises in the basement. Winter ill prob need a heater.

I plan to use my 600w MH dimmable for vegging/mothers ( i like the MH best for veg over the CMH to be honest) , so i can also exhaust that heat into the LED room i guess.

My buddy is gonna buy the 315cmh 3100k...it would be a sin for it to sit in a box, it flowers 2-3 plants nicely. I already sold the other 315 4100k to another friend, i never even took it out of the box.
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
I ran without AC and CO2 for a while, you can grow well if you keep CO2 at 400 PPM equal with outside. You can add 20 - 30% in growth rates and yields with CO2 at 1000 PPM. Of course everything has to be dialed in, balance. With higher CO2 you need more light, more heat, more feed strength and more water. So it's all about getting the right balance.
 
diggs99

diggs99

Well-Known Member
Renfro said:
I ran without AC and CO2 for a while, you can grow well if you keep CO2 at 400 PPM equal with outside. You can add 20 - 30% in growth rates and yields with CO2 at 1000 PPM. Of course everything has to be dialed in, balance. With higher CO2 you need more light, more heat, more feed strength and more water. So it's all about getting the right balance.
Click to expand...
Do you recall what temps and RH were when you were running without AC/co2?

I have absolutely no idea how much heat the new lights will produce, so until i have them running, wont know what im working with i guess.
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
I was aiming for 76 - 78 degrees at 45%. Sometimes it got too hot without an AC unit and without CO2 the plants were not so happy. I had to run at night and winter runs were awesome, summer runs not so much.
 
TintEastwood

TintEastwood

Well-Known Member
diggs99 said:
Man this is gonna end up costing me alot more than i expected lol


Renfro, just how important do you consider co2 for an area the size of mine 7x14 (3x12 footprint)

I may have to go a run or two without. Other shit is further up the priority list, and everything costs a fortune lol

So ima go that route, setup the room as if im not gonna run co2, then when im ready and its further up the priority list, ill implement it then.

So what am i looking at? bigger exhaust fan or a 2nd exhaust fan.
Mini split or AC of some kind
Controller to run huey/dehuey/lights

ill still want temps in mid 80s or higher , not sure how much heat 1440 watts of strips are gonna produce, i assume drivers wil give off some heat. Summer months shouldnt be an issue as ambient rises in the basement. Winter ill prob need a heater.

I plan to use my 600w MH dimmable for vegging/mothers ( i like the MH best for veg over the CMH to be honest) , so i can also exhaust that heat into the LED room i guess.

My buddy is gonna buy the 315cmh 3100k...it would be a sin for it to sit in a box, it flowers 2-3 plants nicely. I already sold the other 315 4100k to another friend, i never even took it out of the box.
Click to expand...
You got that right, Diggs. Things start to add up and up and up.

I use an Autopilot GHM Co2 controller. It works. The APC8200 seems to be a great value.

How many total watts of lighting will be running?
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
TintEastwood said:
You got that right, Diggs. Things start to add up and up and up.
Click to expand...
I am glad I ran without CO2 and Aircon for a little while. Now I have a ventilation system in there that can act as a backup for the AC unit and allow for daily fresh air exchanges. It saves my ass when an AC unit acts up. I just shutdown the co2 generator, let the ventilation take over, if it's still too hot I can dim the lights, turn off side lighting using the temperature cutoff switch. Keeps the room going while I fix the AC.

I started with one room, my current veg room, but I built the walls and doors for the whole setup of two flowering rooms and a veg room, it was costly but something I wouldn't wanna have to do with plants downstairs. I put 3 1kW SE HPS on light movers, ran at night and had a 8 inch blower pulling in cool air lol. I did a few runs of super skunk in there and used that to get equipment to setup room A. I ran it with eight SE 1kW HPS lights in air cooled hoods. I let that pay for the addition of the AC and CO2, did a few runs, then I built the other flowering room all at once. So many costs that are too much to bear initially. Thing is though, I had a drawing and plan of exactly where I wanted to end up so I didn't have to undo/change a bunch of stuff to add the upgrades. Wall placements, doors, so many things lol. My 300 gallon RO vertical storage tank is stuck in a place where it is walled in lol. I had that from when I was doing hydro. It's handy now for flushes, got plenty of water.

So plan for where you wanna be and in time you will get there.
 
TintEastwood

TintEastwood

Well-Known Member
Renfro said:
I am glad I ran without CO2 and Aircon for a little while. Now I have a ventilation system in there that can act as a backup for the AC unit and allow for daily fresh air exchanges. It saves my ass when an AC unit acts up. I just shutdown the co2 generator, let the ventilation take over, if it's still too hot I can dim the lights, turn off side lighting using the temperature cutoff switch. Keeps the room going while I fix the AC.

I started with one room, my current veg room, but I built the walls and doors for the whole setup of two flowering rooms and a veg room, it was costly but something I wouldn't wanna have to do with plants downstairs. I put 3 1kW SE HPS on light movers, ran at night and had a 8 inch blower pulling in cool air lol. I did a few runs of super skunk in there and used that to get equipment to setup room A. I ran it with eight SE 1kW HPS lights in air cooled hoods. I let that pay for the addition of the AC and CO2, did a few runs, then I built the other flowering room all at once. So many costs that are too much to bear initially. Thing is though, I had a drawing and plan of exactly where I wanted to end up so I didn't have to undo/change a bunch of stuff to add the upgrades. Wall placements, doors, so many things lol. My 300 gallon RO vertical storage tank is stuck in a place where it is walled in lol. I had that from when I was doing hydro. It's handy now for flushes, got plenty of water.

So plan for where you wanna be and in time you will get there.
Click to expand...
It's great folks like you, sharing info and knowedge that help others be successful.
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
TintEastwood said:
It's great folks like you, sharing info and knowedge that help others be successful.
Click to expand...
Thanks man, that means a lot.

I believe that this plant belongs to everyone. I am totally against the idea of big companies controlling the industry, everyone should be able to get a slice or just grow their own. I like sharing knowledge so that others can grow their own. There is nothing more satisfying than smoking the weed that you grew. Nothing more satisfying than getting out from under the foot of the man and living paycheck to paycheck as an indentured servant.

There will always be people that for whatever reason choose to buy their weed from small private growers that care about their product. Someone that grows weed because they love it not because it's just a job. Same thing for growers, many of the best growers aren't gonna work for a paycheck growing for a big company.

I remember when I started growing there were no internet forums. All we had was a few grow books and high times magazine. No community of people sharing different observations and grow methods. Things blew up with the internet. So many new methods of growing and so many new strains. Stuff like autoflowers were invented by crossing with ruderalis. Hydro tech like deep water culture started being employed. Just a huge number of advances. There is so much that younger growers take for granted like genetics, products and knowledge that wasn't available 20 years ago. Just getting genetics was limited to bag seeds, maybe something a buddy got on vacation in Hawaii 10 years before. Anytime you scored a killer sack you were hoping for a seed. Whenever you scored shitty weed it would be full of seeds lol. Sometimes those grew into something way better, often not.

With legalization cannabis has seen a big boom in products being geared towards growing weed. It's amazing. New lighting tech is a big one. Lighting tech for indoor growers had been limited to the same basic options for so very long. Now we have many choices, good old HPS and MH have been updated with DE tech and better spectrum. We have LED tech of many kinds. CMH is hitting the scene big time. Even fluorescent lighting has seen major upgrades over the years.

I would have killed to have all this technology, information and genetics back in 1989 when I started growing.
 
diggs99

diggs99

Well-Known Member
TintEastwood said:
You got that right, Diggs. Things start to add up and up and up.

I use an Autopilot GHM Co2 controller. It works. The APC8200 seems to be a great value.

How many total watts of lighting will be running?
Click to expand...

1440 watts of Cutter Sol skin strips running very soft. Should be good enough to cover the 3x12 table

Gonna build 3 separate fixtures, all 3`x4` running length ways. Each on a 480w driver
 
TintEastwood

TintEastwood

Well-Known Member
Thanks, Diggs.

1440 in strips...Nice! I asked because I was doing some reading about ACs and btus.

Here's the key calculation info.

From a website....
"Most air conditioners designed for a conventional 115-volt circuit are generally rated to handle between 5,000 and 12,000 BTUs per hour, and a number of websites let you calculate what size air conditioner you will need based on the dimensions and location of the room you want to cool. But nearly all of them fail to account for the intense heat grow lights and ballasts give off.

HID grow lights add 3.41 BTUs per watt, per hour (1,000 watts = 3,400 BTUs). In a sealed, windowless 4-by-8-foot grow room in a sunny apartment, about 3,000 BTUs worth of heat energy will build up over the course of an hour. But with two 1,000-watt lights and two digital ballasts* running in that room, that figure jumps to about 16,000 BTUs per hour, or 14,000 BTUs (20 percent less) if those lights are air cooled.

If the ballasts are less-efficient magnetic models, the total BTUs per hour increase by 2,000. A CO2 generator sized for that room will add 600 BTUs, and if the room is being dehumidified by a 40-pint dehumidifier, that will add up to 1,200 BTUs.

With all that equipment running, the room will be generating a total of 19,800 BTUs in one hour (15,800 BTUs for air-cooled lights)."
 
TintEastwood

TintEastwood

Well-Known Member
Renfro said:
Thanks man, that means a lot.

I believe that this plant belongs to everyone. I am totally against the idea of big companies controlling the industry, everyone should be able to get a slice or just grow their own. I like sharing knowledge so that others can grow their own. There is nothing more satisfying than smoking the weed that you grew. Nothing more satisfying than getting out from under the foot of the man and living paycheck to paycheck as an indentured servant.

There will always be people that for whatever reason choose to buy their weed from small private growers that care about their product. Someone that grows weed because they love it not because it's just a job. Same thing for growers, many of the best growers aren't gonna work for a paycheck growing for a big company.

I remember when I started growing there were no internet forums. All we had was a few grow books and high times magazine. No community of people sharing different observations and grow methods. Things blew up with the internet. So many new methods of growing and so many new strains. Stuff like autoflowers were invented by crossing with ruderalis. Hydro tech like deep water culture started being employed. Just a huge number of advances. There is so much that younger growers take for granted like genetics, products and knowledge that wasn't available 20 years ago. Just getting genetics was limited to bag seeds, maybe something a buddy got on vacation in Hawaii 10 years before. Anytime you scored a killer sack you were hoping for a seed. Whenever you scored shitty weed it would be full of seeds lol. Sometimes those grew into something way better, often not.

With legalization cannabis has seen a big boom in products being geared towards growing weed. It's amazing. New lighting tech is a big one. Lighting tech for indoor growers had been limited to the same basic options for so very long. Now we have many choices, good old HPS and MH have been updated with DE tech and better spectrum. We have LED tech of many kinds. CMH is hitting the scene big time. Even fluorescent lighting has seen major upgrades over the years.

I would have killed to have all this technology, information and genetics back in 1989 when I started growing.
Click to expand...
Dang, Renfro. You've been in it for a minute or two! I'm almost 60, slayed computers from mainframes to data centers for the past 40.
Only 3yrs growing. Noob compared to you.
 
diggs99

diggs99

Well-Known Member
That's some good info TE

So how will Led lighting apply to the calculation?

I keep hearing how very little heat these new leds are putting out.

It looks like I'm going to the no ac/ co2 route for the first couple runs. So gonna need to figure out what is the ideal environment for that room running fresh air intake and exhaust.
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
TintEastwood said:
Dang, Renfro. You've been in it for a minute or two! I'm almost 60, slayed computers from mainframes to data centers for the past 40.
Only 3yrs growing. Noob compared to you.
Click to expand...
I did a little time in the computer industry. Some old school AS/400 work. Gawd I don't miss working with computers. It's not the computers, it's the idiots that operate them...
 
TintEastwood

TintEastwood

Well-Known Member
diggs99 said:
That's some good info TE

So how will Led lighting apply to the calculation?

I keep hearing how very little heat these new leds are putting out.

It looks like I'm going to the no ac/ co2 route for the first couple runs. So gonna need to figure out what is the ideal environment for that room running fresh air intake and exhaust.
Click to expand...
As long as your intake air is cool enough, you should be fine.

I think it means....
1440watts x 3.41 = need 4910 btu's of AC cooling just for lights.
 
diggs99

diggs99

Well-Known Member
Renfro said:
If you can keep temps inline with the humidity according to a VPD chart you will be good to go.

View attachment 4335040
Click to expand...
Wow those RH #s get pretty high as the temps rise hey.

Ive read guys growing with LED wanting temps around 85-86f, thats a range of 66% - 81% rh for veg and early flower, ive been way under those numbers in my past and current grows.

So that chart can/should be used to keep the environment suitable for plants for all lighting? same applies to led as it does to hps?

So if i keep my temps around 82-86f and within the proper RH according to that chart, have good exhaust and fresh air intake, the room should be pretty good for growing some ganja ? lol

I had seen VPD mentioned and read a little about it before i started growing, but never followed it like i should have apparently lol
 
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