Seeds vs Clones pros and cons

LOL so much bad information in this topic..

Seeds are definitely better then clones as far as growing potential. A seed will always outperform a clone, all other things considered even.

Educate yourself on first generation seeds vs cuts which lose their strength over time as the mother plant is constantly pulled from, and tap roots which only grow from seeds.

Clones can be beneficial because you will always have females, but feminized seeds can do that too. Also, clones do not grow faster then seeds, that is a myth spread by people who have never sprouted a seed.

Also seeds have even, uniform growth patterns, are more resistant to disease, and more vigor.

High_Haze said:

LOL so much bad information in this topic..

Seeds are definitely better then clones as far as growing potential. A seed will always outperform a clone, all other things considered even.

Educate yourself on first generation seeds vs cuts which lose their strength over time as the mother plant is constantly pulled from, and tap roots which only grow from seeds.

Clones can be beneficial because you will always have females, but feminized seeds can do that too. Also, clones do not grow faster then seeds, that is a myth spread by people who have never sprouted a seed.

Also seeds have even, uniform growth patterns, are more resistant to disease, and more vigor.

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Clones are faster than seeds and yes I do both. I take a cutting and have roots in 5-6 days by week 3 they are twice the size of a germinated seed of the same age in my flood and drain system. Put into flower they develop buds quicker as they are already sexually mature so yes they are quicker, as for uniform growth that is the reason for clones, seeds have different pheno's so the there is no knowing what each plant will do, some tall, some not so tall. It's really a grower choice as to what suits his setup. I grow seeds to find a keeper then I clone it for a consistent canopy and growth rate. Also I am able to dial it in to get the most out of it. This is really just a dumb argument, there is no better, just what works lol.

Budley Doright said:

Clones are faster than seeds and yes I do both. I take a cutting and have roots in 5-6 days by week 3 they are twice the size of a germinated seed of the same age in my flood and drain system. Put into flower they develop buds quicker as they are already sexually mature so yes they are quicker, as for uniform growth that is the reason for clones, seeds have different pheno's so the there is no knowing what each plant will do, some tall, some not so tall. It's really a grower choice as to what suits his setup. I grow seeds to find a keeper then I clone it for a consistent canopy and growth rate. Also I am able to dial it in to get the most out of it. This is really just a dumb argument, there is no better, just what works lol.

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Uniform growth is not talking about the plant's genetic traits, it is a reference to where the branching and leaves develop on the plant, which from seed is a specific pattern and even in growth, where clone growth can be sporadic and unpredictable.

Also a tap root enables the plant to quickly surpass the clone if the plant is not limited by the grower. Clone does have its advantages, as you mentioned knowing what pheno you are using, but due to other reasons will always fail overall against a seed plant especially outdoors.

Some setups benefit from clones over seeds.

Excellant thread! I learned quite a bit actually. Tap root/vigor and etc. Sisnt know any of that.

The whole versus thing. I mean, different growing methods, well. They each may have their advantages. Personally, I always thought cloning was better for perpetual style commercial. Being a micro guy although extremely curious about cloning, I don't see any reason since I don't grow all the time.

Anyway, so I have no experience to add. But, one of the best journals I've seen is this one by @Al B. Fuct. I think this journal exemplifies using cloning in a commercial style grow.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/get-a-harvest-every-2-weeks.6592/

I can also see te benefit of seeds outdoors. Tho I'm sure clones would work well also.

There really is no point in all the versus. I think all te growing styles have there advantages and disadvantages in differing situations.

High_Haze said:

Uniform growth is not talking about the plant's genetic traits, it is a reference to where the branching and leaves develop on the plant, which from seed is a specific pattern and even in growth, where clone growth can be sporadic and unpredictable.

Also a tap root enables the plant to quickly surpass the clone if the plant is not limited by the grower. Clone does have its advantages, as you mentioned knowing what pheno you are using, but due to other reasons will always fail overall against a seed plant especially outdoors.

Some setups benefit from clones over seeds.

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Actually my clones are very predictable lol. And yes your basically repeating everything that I said, indoors is a different beast. But I've done some pretty big outdoor grows (numbers) with clones and they were a product of what the consumer wanted, I could not have done them without clones, just to big to control the variables that seeds provide, I've also done many successful seed grows both indoor and out, like I've said their both great to work with and both have their benefits. To say one is better than the other is just arguing for the sake of arguing lol.

Budley Doright said:

Actually my clones are very predictable

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Never had a problem either. Not in 15 years with clones. Healthy ones anyway.

Budley Doright said:

Actually my clones are very predictable lol. And yes your basically repeating everything that I said, indoors is a different beast. But I've done some pretty big outdoor grows (numbers) with clones and they were a product of what the consumer wanted, I could not have done them without clones, just to big to control the variables that seeds provide, I've also done many successful seed grows both indoor and out, like I've said their both great to work with and both have their benefits. To say one is better than the other is just arguing for the sake of arguing lol.

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To some, that is the goal.

I do not put much stock into people that spend so much time telling you how wrong you are.

PetFlora said:

3rd time growing clones v seeds. AFAICT, seeds are better.

First pic is seeds second is of older clones than seedlings

AND, these clones look nothing like their mother

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So you grow crappy clones. I'm sure there are people here that can help . I was going to pick the blue thing but it's off putting .

Budley Doright said:

So you grow crappy clones. I'm sure there are people here that can help . I was going to pick the blue thing but it's off putting .

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Now that is AFAICT

Ok so here is 6 plants (clones) 3 weeks from cutting. Again this is not saying clones are better but just to show that one picture of one grow does not prove shit . And this is a 4 week out door clone from cut sorry I only grew auto's from seed this year so nothing to compare, smoking the auto's.

Budley Doright said:

Ok so here is 6 plants (clones) 3 weeks from cutting. Again this is not saying clones are better but just to show that one picture of one grow does not prove shit . View attachment 3756475 And this is a 4 week out door clone from cut View attachment 3756477sorry I only grew auto's from seed this year so nothing to compare, smoking the auto's.

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Autos. You mean not only did you grow autos! But, you grew them from seeds? Uh oh. I am surprised you're not being harassed by the RIU "you can only do it this way" mob! lol. What kind f autos sir. I am a closet fan myself. lmao. Don't tell nobody tho.

Bacala said:

In California, clones are available in most dispensaries so it's a good way to try new strains without much effort or expense. Cost is $12 per in the stores I've used.

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Make sure that you take some kind of scope in with you when buying clone's,The last thing you want is to be bringing any pest's in your grow room.I would all ways go with beans if there easy to get,and its possible to get the strain your after,in seed form,the only time i would grow a clone is if its one i had done my self ,or a strain i really wanted unless you know that a grower 110% does not have mites,

I do not even like going into other grow room's never mind buying clones,from a source,that is prob from a great grower but you have no idea what its been on,or its history,may just be me but i am really funny about plants been brought in from another place,even house plants.

Go with seeds dude has long has you can get the strain you want,and its not like when i first started growing you will find most strains are available in seed form from some source,that way you know your growing good clean plant's.

Budley Doright said:

Actually my clones are very predictable lol. And yes your basically repeating everything that I said, indoors is a different beast. But I've done some pretty big outdoor grows (numbers) with clones and they were a product of what the consumer wanted, I could not have done them without clones, just to big to control the variables that seeds provide, I've also done many successful seed grows both indoor and out, like I've said their both great to work with and both have their benefits. To say one is better than the other is just arguing for the sake of arguing lol.

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Lol I question if you have really grown from seed because you clearly have no idea what I am referencing to with the uniform growth pattern which DOES not exist with clones.

Also a seed outdoors will always outperform a clone, again, I have been growing for many years and myself and others have done side by side tests. Google what a tap root does

Then again, some people will choose to remain ignorant and defend their position because it is what they are comfortable with. cognitive dissonance. Its not about being right or wrong, its about the facts. If you think a cut from a mom has more vigor then a seed I highly doubt you know what you are doing. The difference is night and day, dont get your feelings in it.

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Check my grow journal out the jack herer by marijuna seeds nl and the exodus cheese was both started at the same time so was the super lemon haze and the exodus cheese,the day you take the clones,i put a seed to sprout,i have found them to be pretty uniform growth by doing this,
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exodus cheese (clone)
jack herer( seed)
super lemon haze( seed)
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The exodus and the super lemon haze are both around 3 ft tall now,The jack herer and the exodus in the picture are both the same height
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I have had spider mite's through buying in clones never again.cost me big time,I tried everything on them but we are talking years ago nothing worked,When i come to the stage that i knew the plants could not be saved i tried neat vodka,even this did not work just to see if this would work,The best thing i found is to have lady birds in the room all the time,these work best but i only ever work with plants i have done my self from then.(NEVER AGAIN)

High_Haze said:

Lol I question if you have really grown from seed because you clearly have no idea what I am referencing to with the uniform growth pattern which DOES not exist with clones.

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That's because clones are cut from 'mature' plants, which have already reached the alternate branching stage. Which is also extremely uniform.

It sounds like you haven't vegged to maturity before flowering, yet.

High_Haze said:

Lol I question if you have really grown from seed because you clearly have no idea what I am referencing to with the uniform growth pattern which DOES not exist with clones.

Also a seed outdoors will always outperform a clone, again, I have been growing for many years and myself and others have done side by side tests. Google what a tap root does

Then again, some people will choose to remain ignorant and defend their position because it is what they are comfortable with. cognitive dissonance. Its not about being right or wrong, its about the facts. If you think a cut from a mom has more vigor then a seed I highly doubt you know what you are doing. The difference is night and day, dont get your feelings in it.

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What am I defending exactly??? Did I say one was better than another? Have you recently had a stroke and your comprehension is a bit challenged? I actually believe I said a seed plant would grow better than a clone given the outdoor time frame, you may want to re-read and maybe slower this time .... Fuck! And yes 42 years ago was my first seed grow, mind you they were Mexican bag seed lol.

ok..so pros of clones are
1. Speed and ease of using.
2. Generic trait and knowing what your getting.
3. Monster cropping. (not the same as keeping a mother plant)

Cons are.
1. Not as vigorous as its mother.
2. Speed of growth "may" be slower with the clone. (in all likely hood it is seems to be the general thinking)


Yield benefits: Inside and particularly outside, lower less yielding branches "can" be used as clones to increase final yield by a small amount.


Conclusion. Clones have there place both out side and indoors but are in general much more suited to indoors and are not recommended for growing large trees outside due to the lack of a tap root.


How does that sound?

Douglas.Curtis said:

That's because clones are cut from 'mature' plants, which have already reached the alternate branching stage. Which is also extremely uniform.

It sounds like you haven't vegged to maturity before flowering, yet.

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Thats exactly my point it is a completely different growth pattern then a seed.. pop a seed sometime and look at how uniform and even the branching/growth is. Mirror copy on all sides.

you can keep 1000`s of seeds in a bag for years and years and still pop them easy

clones are very hard to root if a cutting is older than a few days but old cuttings of plants can be rooted just normally takes longer then cloning something fresh or growing from seed

clone`s are only worth it if you have a good mother plant and are able to care for the cuttings correctly most people find that in the 1st 2 to 4 weeks seedlings need less work but ultimately the plant will be a bit different and they can take a bit longer to veg up then if you get a larger cutting from the lower part of a good mum to root fast