Scientific proof that a ghetto (baking soda &vinegar) CO2 generator is pointless

Hello everyone, today i got a little bored and wanted to figure out if a cheap baking soda & vinegar CO2 generator could happen.


WOW i messed up a calculation it is help ful

ADD 680ml of vinegar to 46g of baking soda to raise a 6x6x6 room +2000 PPM CO2


thats alot of vinegar tho.. hahah youll be leaving the store with 24 packs of vinegar

Vinegar (HC2H3O2)+ baking soda(NaHCO3)

The Reaction

HC2H3O2 + NaHCO3 ===> NaC2H3O2 + H2CO3

Acetic acid plus sodium bicarbonate makes sodium acetate plus carbonic acid

The NaC2H3O2 is a salt called sodium acetate.( The residue left over)




The H2CO3 (carbonic acid) then breaks down into water and carbon dioxide:

H2CO3 ===> H2O + CO2



So,
1 mole of HC2H3O2 = 60.0200 g/mol
1 mole of NaHCO3 = 83.9998 g/mol

The density of HC2H3O2 is 1.049 g/ml so 60.1 grams of vinegar = 63 ml
I just looked at the vinegar in my pantry and turns out store bought vinegar is only 5% HC2H3O2 by volume so,

63 ml * .05 = 3.15

63/3.15 = 20

so you will need 20*63 =1260 ml of store bought vinegar to complete the reaction

Final CO2 produced is 44.02 grams
Correction this also reduces the % mass yield down to 3.3 %.

For a 6’ x 6’ x 6’ room I reaction would bring the PPM up 3714 PPM
So to reach a PPM of 2000 for a 6’ x 6’ x 6’ room (2000/3714)=.539 reactions

.54 * 1260ml of Vinegar = 680 ml or .68 L
.54 * 84g of baking soda = 45.36 or 1.6 ounces

It was worth a shot but this just proves that unless you have a 1’x1’x1’ room using baking soda anf vingar is a waste of time.

what about seltzer water or club soda,does that help?

wow man way to put an end to the mith. +rep for the intelligent analysis. I would now like to request an analysis of fermentation using sugar, water, and starch for use in making CO2

I admit Co2 into my room with a tank.
It only cost me about $500, for the tank, regulator, meter, and misc. shit.

Was it worth it?

No.

The atmospheric Co2 in my grow room hovers right around 800 ppm's.
Without me adding any Co2.

When I admitted Co2 and kept it right around 1600 ppm's, I only yielded a tiny bit more.

I have 2 grow cabinets.
I admitted Co2 in one and not the other.
The cabinet without Co2 yielded right around 6 ounces.
The other with me admitting Co2, yielded just under 7 ounces.

If you wanna waste your money, buy mine.

crackerboy said:

wow man way to put an end to the mith. +rep for the intelligent analysis. I would now like to request an analysis of fermentation using sugar, water, and starch for use in making CO2

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In the fermentation process yeast is the cause of the chemical reaction (digestion I’m guessing) I am no biologist, but here we go.

Sugar (C6H12O6)

Ethyl alcohol (CH3CH2OH)

Carbon Dioxide (CO2)

C6H12O6 ====> 2(CH3CH2OH) + 2(CO2)
So,
1 mole of sugar (C6H12O6) = 180g

2 moles of CO2 = 88.02g

After fermentation 180 g of sugar will raise a 6’ x 6’ x 6’ +7426 PPM so far so good, but now we have to factor in the time it takes yeast to process sugar. Sorry I tried I could not find the rate of metabolism for yeast. I will instead us the time it took me to ferment wine made with 5lbs of sugar. It took 2.5 months so lest say 75 days
454g in a pound so 454*5= 2270 g

2270/180 = 12.66 or 1/12.5 the scale.

75 days /12.66 = 5.9 days

7426PPM/6 days = +1248 PPM a day for 6 days.

NOTE>>>> THIS NUMBER IS ONLY VALID IF THE YEAST HAVE REPRODUCED FULLY

A= Pe^rt is for continually compounded growth (exponential growth)

7426= P(e^(2270/75)(.205)

P original production of PPM/day = 15

lets test it in a month
x = 15*(e^((2270/75)(1 month is 1/12 of a year so * .08333)

PPM/day after a month = 186.5
PPM/day after 2 months = 2327 Note that the suggar would have run out long before then


Ok I really don’t want to do this cuz its a lot of number crunching ,but I will take the average of every 5 day span of ppm/day production to figure out when the sugar would run out.


Day 1 = 15 (15+35)/2 = 25 25*10days= 250 ppm 7426 - 250 = 7176ppm left
Day 10 =34.4 (35+52)/2 = 61 61*5 = 305 = 6871
Day15 = 52 (53+7/2 =65 65*5 = 325 = 6546
Day20 = 78 (78+129)/2 = 103 103*5= 517=6028
Day25 = 129 (129+180)/2 = 154 154*5=772= 5255
Day30 = 180 (180+273)/2=226 226*5=1132=4122.5
Day35 = 273 (273+413)/2=343 343*5 = 1715= 2407
Day40 = 413 (413+626)/2=519 519*5=2600 = done<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<run out of suggar before this date
Day45 = 626
Day 50 = 947
Day55 = 1434
Day 60 = 2171

awesome. I think I understood most of that.

If you spend a minimum of 30 min. hovering over and inspecting your plants each day,you will be giving them lots(enough) co2 from your own resperation.

olishell said:

If you spend a minimum of 30 min. hovering over and inspecting your plants each day,you will be giving them lots(enough) co2 from your own resperation.

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Your theory is wrong, and a complete waste of time.
I know this, because I've tried it.
As soon as my Co2 meter came in the mail.
I messed around with it, by breathing onto it for about an hour.
The Co2 ppm's only went up about 50 ppm's.
When you exhale, your not only exhaling Co2, your exhaling oxygen too.

Shit, I love chemistry even though I don't understand most of it. I've always been skeptical as to how effective a DIY CO2 generator is. +rep.

SickSadLittleWorld said:

Shit, I love chemistry even though I don't understand most of it. I've always been skeptical as to how effective a DIY CO2 generator is. +rep.

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crackerboy said:

awesome. I think I understood most of that.

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yea i dont think it would be worth it mabey in the last week of suggar left

Sugar is converted into ethyl alcohol and CO2 when it ferments due to the action of yeast. In this method, the following ingredients and equipment are needed:
1. Suitably sized container, plastic or glass
2. Sugar, common or invert
3. Yeast, brewers or bourgelais wine yeast
4. Yeast nutrient
5. Sealant, cellophane, tape or lid
6. 1/4 plastic tubing
7. 1/4 shutoff valve
8. Balloon
9. Starter jar or bottle
A pound of sugar will ferment into approximately half a pound of ethyl alcohol (C2H5OH) and half a pound of CO2. One pound of CO2 makes 8.7 cubic feet of CO2 gas at normal atmospheric conditions. In our standard 8 X 8' X 8' grow room, you will need to generate 512 cu. ft. X .0013 (1300 PPM CO2) = 0.66 cubic feet of CO2 every four hours. It takes time for the yeast to ferment sugar, so the size of container you should use in determined by dividing the cubic feet of growing area (512 Cu. ft.) by 32 = 16 gallons.
A convenient container to use here would be a plastic kitchen garbage can. These are inexpensive and easily obtainable.
To determine how much sugar we need for six weeks of operation or until fermentation ceases, the following calculations are necessary: From the above paragraph, we need 0.66 cu. ft. of CO2 every four hours. If one pound of CO2 makes 8.7 cu. ft. of CO2, we will need 0.08 lbs. of sugar, but because every one pound of sugar only makes 1/2 lb. of CO2, we must double the amount of sugar needed, i.e. 0.08 X 2 = 0.16 lbs. of sugar every four hours. Since there are six four-hour periods in a 24 hour day, the amount of sugar we need is 0.16 x 6 or 0.96 lbs. of sugar per day.
If we round this off to one pound of sugar per day, we will need 42 lbs. of sugar in six weeks. We must consider that only 80 to 90% of the sugar will be completely converted in this length of time, therefore, we should actually use about 48 lbs. of sugar in six weeks.
The sugar solution to start with is 2 1/2 to 3 lbs. per gallon. You can use hot water to start with, as sugar dissolves faster in it than in cold water. You must let it cool to 80-90 degrees F before adding yeast to it or the yeast will be killed. Start with the fermenting container only half-full as you will be adding an extra gallon per week for 6 weeks. Begin with eight gallons per week and 24 lbs. of sugar.
To start the solution fermenting, you will want to make a "starter batch" of sugar water, yeast and yeast nutrient. To do this, use a coke or beer bottle (approx. one pint), dissolve 1/4 lb. of sugar in 10 oz. of warm water (approx. 3/4 full), add a pinch of yeast and two pinches of yeast nutrient to this sugar mixture. Place a balloon on the bottle and set in warm location, 80 to 90 degrees F, for one to two days or until the balloon expands and small bubbles are visible in the solution.
After the starter solution has begun fermenting vigorously, it is added to the main fermentation tank at the same temperature already mentioned. After a day or so, to see that the system is working properly and that CO2 is being generated, close the valve to the supply tube and, if the unit is sealed properly, the balloon should expand in a short period of time. To regulate the amount of CO2 being delivered to the plants, open the valve until the balloon is only half the size of full expansion.
The CO2 supply tube with in-line valve should have a 2" loop in it half full of water to serve as an air-lock. This loop can be held in place with tape on the side of the fermentation tank. The open end of this tube can either be positioned in front of a circulating fan or run through "T" fittings to make additional tubes, the ends of which can be positioned above your plants. Remember, CO2 is heavier than air and it will flow downwards.
Once per week, undo a corner of the Saran Wrap and add an extra gallon of sugar solution and yeast nutrient, then reseal the top with tape. Use three lbs. of sugar and one teaspoon of nutrient per gallon.
After the last gallon is added, after six weeks of operation, let fermentation continue until the balloon goes down and no more bubbles are visible in the "U" tube. When this point has been reached, taste the solution. If is it sweet, fermentation is not complete and a new starter batch should be made and added to the tank. More yeast nutrient should also be used. If the solution is dry (not sweet) like wine, fermentation has stopped and the alcohol content has killed the yeast. At this point, it's time to clean your tank and start a new batch.
The fermentation process is quite good for generating CO2 and relatively inexpensive. Regular or invert (corn) sugar is inexpensive and available. You may have to purchase invert sugar at a wine supply store. This method of generating CO2 will cost approximately 50 to 60 cents per day.
To save money on extra yeast, you can either take out approximately a gallon of fermenting liquid and save for the next batch, or start a second system identical to the first and alternate themóclean and replenish one, then three weeks later, clean and replenish the second.

Here's the link where that was found: http://www.hydrofarm.com/articles/co2_enrichment.php

FuZZyBUDz said:

Aye did u try holding ur breathe then breathing on to it? i think it would draw more O2 into ur lungs mayb producing more Co2? or running b4 u did it? but it wont do shit to ur plants, tho. im just curious to how much we really produce?

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Go back and read what that person wrote for me to write what i wrote.

Going on your thinking with what that person said, I'd have to hold my breath and then breathe out, and do that for 30 minutes.
After 10 minutes on my stoner lungs, I'd pass out.
Jeeez Louise...

This is a quote from a government website concerning indoor air quality:

"People exhale carbon dioxide&#8212;the average adult's breath contains about 35,000 to 50,000 ppm of CO2 (100 times higher than outdoor air). Without adequate ventilation to dilute and remove the CO2 continuously generated by the occupants, CO2 can accumulate. "

as retreived from http://www.wapa.gov/es/pubs/techbrf/co2.htm

Now, this being said, if you sealed yourself in a room for any period of time, you are going to raise the CO2 ppm significantly. To the person who said their breath only increased the ppm by 50 points... I can't account for that result. What about exhaling in to a plactic bag and putting the meter inside it? Maybe a scale indicator like x100 illuminated? I know my TDS PPM meter has a scale indicator on it. Still, the ancedotal stories about people talking to their plants and having them grow larger... may have some merit.

BongJuice said:

Your theory is wrong, and a complete waste of time.
I know this, because I've tried it.
As soon as my Co2 meter came in the mail.
I messed around with it, by breathing onto it for about an hour.
The Co2 ppm's only went up about 50 ppm's.
When you exhale, your not only exhaling Co2, your exhaling oxygen too.

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I like this. LOL

BS, You cant give your plant enough co2 for them to use by breathying on them. Dude, Im sorry but thats just ridiculouse. The best thing to do is keep it simple and watch your ppm levels and your temp. As i keep my humidity between 40-55% in veg and temp at 68low & 75high, ppms between 1400 & 1600. Do you use a sniffer that will turn on your injectiuon of co2 when it falls below 1400ppm's or turn off when over 1600ppms like a "piggy packed" C.A.P. sniffer? It's simp;e and workes wonders! I had only a 4000hps flower room then four years ago added co2 and now i have 3 rooms! (Not including breeding or veg! Peace, Sensi

pppft....bullshit...all bullshit i says.

as a brewer of crappy ales and wines i do protest. It is NOT a waste of time.
it's penny pinching at it's finest.

ChubbySoap said:

pppft....bullshit...all bullshit i says.

as a brewer of crappy ales and wines i do protest. It is NOT a waste of time.
it's penny pinching at it's finest.

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Yea. This thread makes zero sense. If co2 is being produced constantly and the burper is being pumped into your SEALED tent, there's no way that doesn't help the plants. Now, if you're using a cpl 2 liter bottles, than no, it's not going to help the 6 plants in your 4x4ft grow tent.

When I make mash for moonshine, I use two 5 gallon buckets and the airlocks on top will go absolutely crazy for like 2 weeks. I plan to vent that into the top of my tent on the next run. See what my meter picks up.... I would assume just letting it sit in there and slowly release would be the best option