Russian Sanctions 2022 or Cashing in Putin's Plunder

Seems like desperation..telling really.


@printer I believe posted an article how long can the Ukraine War with Russia last..as long as the desperate can hold out (not long).

schuylaar said:

Seems like desperation..telling really.

Nobel sold for Ukrainian kids shatters record at $103.5M

Nobel Peace laureate Dmitry Muratov says he was not expecting the medal he was auctioning off to help Ukrainian child refugees sell for the record amount of $103.5 million.

apnews.com

@printer I believe posted an article how long can the Ukraine War with Russia last..as long as the desperate can hold out (not long).

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I doubt it can go on at the pace it is. But it can end up with both sides dug in and shooting at each other just to keep them from moving forces around to get an advantage over each other. How long will the West's populations feel kindly to their governments as the war drags on longer? I am ok with it costing me more to defeat Russia but a lot of people live paycheck to paycheck and they might not be so willing.

printer said:

I doubt it can go on at the pace it is. But it can end up with both sides dug in and shooting at each other just to keep them from moving forces around to get an advantage over each other. How long will the West's populations feel kindly to their governments as the war drags on longer? I am ok with it costing me more to defeat Russia but a lot of people live paycheck to paycheck and they might not be so willing.

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Inflation etc It cost us more long ago starting with the TARIFFS..remember when? I was still in Florida ruining my car doing LYFT and my rider was bitching about the price of steel as he was a builder. December 2018-ish that's what got this going. I know it's kind of off topic but it's wrapped up together.

schuylaar said:

Inflation etc It cost us more long ago starting with the TARIFFS..remember when? I was still in Florida ruining my car doing LYFT and my rider was bitching about the price of steel as he was a builder. December 2018-ish that's what got this going. I know it's kind of off topic but it's wrapped up together.

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The tarriffs were the start but not a biggie. I already knew we would have inflation when they were giving out money due to covid and all the people that were not spending the money until things were going better. Then there was the ship tying up the Suez Canal which started some of the supply chain problems. We never worked our way through those and then Putin walks up to hit the piñata. I watched a program on a civilization that fell 2,000-3,000 years ago in the Mediterranean. (naturally I can not remember the details) Basically it came down to they could take one disruption and ride their way through it but they got hit with three major ones and the systems in place could not take the stress. So yes, when talking about Putin the inflation we have goes beyond just the effect he had on it.

I am sure one individual could blame the inflation on Biden, that if he was in power it would not have happened. Because he would have gave Putin Ukraine and Ukraine would have just been a blip. The sad thing is the people that do not understand Biden had little to do with the causes. Mind you if he would have gone through with his stimulus package we really would be deep in it. Maybe we do owe Manchin an apology for being a Grinch.

printer said:

The tarriffs were the start but not a biggie. I already knew we would have inflation when they were giving out money due to covid and all the people that were not spending the money until things were going better. Then there was the ship tying up the Suez Canal which started some of the supply chain problems. We never worked our way through those and then Putin walks up to hit the piñata. I watched a program on a civilization that fell 2,000-3,000 years ago in the Mediterranean. (naturally I can not remember the details) Basically it came down to they could take one disruption and ride their way through it but they got hit with three major ones and the systems in place could not take the stress. So yes, when talking about Putin the inflation we have goes beyond just the effect he had on it.

I am sure one individual could blame the inflation on Biden, that if he was in power it would not have happened. Because he would have gave Putin Ukraine and Ukraine would have just been a blip. The sad thing is the people that do not understand Biden had little to do with the causes. Mind you if he would have gone through with his stimulus package we really would be deep in it. Maybe we do owe Manchin an apology for being a Grinch.

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Im with you up until the last bit. I heard this said on Morning Joe too.

The problem is that a lot of the things in the legislation they tried to get through would have helped to reduce prices on a lot of areas for families that now have to pay higher prices on top of the high costs on things like insulin and child care (which would help free more folks up with young kids to work).

printer said:

The tarriffs were the start but not a biggie. I already knew we would have inflation when they were giving out money due to covid and all the people that were not spending the money until things were going better. Then there was the ship tying up the Suez Canal which started some of the supply chain problems. We never worked our way through those and then Putin walks up to hit the piñata. I watched a program on a civilization that fell 2,000-3,000 years ago in the Mediterranean. (naturally I can not remember the details) Basically it came down to they could take one disruption and ride their way through it but they got hit with three major ones and the systems in place could not take the stress. So yes, when talking about Putin the inflation we have goes beyond just the effect he had on it.

I am sure one individual could blame the inflation on Biden, that if he was in power it would not have happened. Because he would have gave Putin Ukraine and Ukraine would have just been a blip. The sad thing is the people that do not understand Biden had little to do with the causes. Mind you if he would have gone through with his stimulus package we really would be deep in it. Maybe we do owe Manchin an apology for being a Grinch.

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Mediterranean? Are you talking about Thera and the Minoans? It was a very world changing event on a well advanced society. Some think it was what Atlantis was. It changed the worlds weather pattern for years..it also started a super-tsunami, earthquakes..it had a pyroclastic flow right on to the sea. No out rowing it.

If Trump were president we would have no Social Security Trust Fund. Fact. They already had plans to make it a wedge issue by 'negotiating' every five years..fuck that!

hanimmal said:

Im with you up until the last bit. I heard this said on Morning Joe too.

The problem is that a lot of the things in the legislation they tried to get through would have helped to reduce prices on a lot of areas for families that now have to pay higher prices on top of the high costs on things like insulin and child care (which would help free more folks up with young kids to work).

Click to expand...

Not to say that everything in the bill was bad, just when you lump it all together some no-brainers get hit when it all goes south.

I was mistaken
I was sure by the title this was a thread about Wisconsin Senator Ron Johnson
My bad…maybe?

schuylaar said:

Mediterranean? Are you talking about Thera and the Minoans? It was a very world changing event on a well advanced society. Some think it was what Atlantis was. It changed the worlds weather pattern for years..it also started a super-tsunami, earthquakes..it had a pyroclastic flow right on to the sea. No out rowing it.

If Trump were president we would have no Social Security Trust Fund. Fact. They already had plans to make it a wedge issue by 'negotiating' every five years..fuck that!

Click to expand...

Not a bad read.
What Caused the Bronze Age Collapse?
In a matter of decades, though, that thriving culture underwent a rapid and near-total collapse. After 1177 B.C., the survivors of this Bronze Age collapse were plunged into a centuries-long "Dark Ages" that saw the disappearance of some written languages and brought once-mighty kingdoms to their knees.

But what kind of catastrophic event could have triggered such a sudden and sweeping downfall?
It's likely that the simultaneous demise of so many ancient civilizations wasn't caused by a single event or disaster, but by a "perfect storm" of multiple stressors—an epic drought, desperate famine, roving marauders, and more—that toppled these interdependent kingdoms like dominos, according to Eric Cline, author of 1177 B.C.: The Year Civilization Collapsed.

Before the Fall
The author refers to this process as “globalization,” which seems a bit misleading given that the circuits of communication and exchange were regional, not worldwide. In any case, it had effects that can be traced in the layers of scattered archeological digs: commodities and artwork characteristic of one society catch on in another, and by the start of the 12th century a real cosmopolitanism is in effect. At the same time, the economic networks encouraged a market in foodstuffs as well as tin — the major precious resource of the day, something like petroleum became in the 20th century.

But evidence from the digs also shows two other developments during this period: a number of devastating earthquakes and droughts. Some of the cities that collapsed circa 1177 may have been destroyed by natural disaster, or so weakened that they succumbed far more quickly to the marauding Sea Peoples than they would have otherwise. For that matter, it is entirely possible that the Sea Peoples themselves were fleeing from such catastrophes. “In my opinion,” writes Cline, “… none of these individual factors would have been cataclysmic enough on their own to bring down even one of these civilizations, let alone all of them. However, they could have combined to produce a scenario in which the repercussions of each factor were magnified, in what some scholars have called a ‘multiplier effect.’ … The ensuing ‘systems collapse’ could have led to the disintegration of one society after another, in part because of the fragmentation of the global economy and the breakdown of the interconnections upon which each civilization was dependent."

Herb & Suds said:

I was mistaken
I was sure by the title this was a thread about Wisconsin Senator Ron Johnson
My bad…maybe?

Click to expand...

Yes, you bad.

printer said:

Not to say that everything in the bill was bad, just when you lump it all together some no-brainers get hit when it all goes south.

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Like for real stuff in it, or the bullshit that the right wing propagandists pretended was?

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/5376/text

hanimmal said:

Like for real stuff in it, or the bullshit that the right wing propagandists pretended was?

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/5376/text

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All depends on your perspective. If you look at things with strictly an economic eye, social spending does not make sense. Some who mainly care about social aspects, to them they figure the money can be found somewhere. Either extreme is not healthy.

printer said:

All depends on your perspective. If you look at things with strictly an economic eye, social spending does not make sense. Some who mainly care about social aspects, to them they figure the money can be found somewhere. Either extreme is not healthy.

Click to expand...

I disagree strongly if you consider the long run of the programs. For example right off the bad in the text of the bill (that I linked above) talks about tree planting programs. More trees in cities has been shown to have very positive impacts in health of the people in those cities, which reduces health care spending.



So unless the perspective is just being short sighted and uninformed, social spending does make sense. It is easy to shit talk things without any actual context, but it doesn't make it true is what I was saying about real stuff in the bill vs what right wing propagandists say is.

hanimmal said:

I disagree strongly if you consider the long run of the programs. For example right off the bad in the text of the bill (that I linked above) talks about tree planting programs. More trees in cities has been shown to have very positive impacts in health of the people in those cities, which reduces health care spending.

View attachment 5152647

So unless the perspective is just being short sighted and uninformed, social spending does make sense. It is easy to shit talk things without any actual context, but it doesn't make it true is what I was saying about real stuff in the bill vs what right wing propagandists say is.

Click to expand...

"If people want trees they can plant them themselves, or move to a place with trees. Why do I have to pay taxes to reduce stress and blood pressure of someone I do not know? Pull yourselves up by your own bootstraps, do not expect me to do it."

The above is a sink or swim outlook. "If you do not make a sacrifice for your own good why should I do it for you?" Is it wrong? Shortsighted? "If people expect government to fix all ills then they will do nothing themselves." I know the two extremes, one my brother and the other my sister. My brother who just retired and is worth a million, my sister who could not live in her house if it were not for the person who is living there giving her a little income. She lives by getting government grants for feel good projects. She has nothing for retirement funds, has travelled to Europe, India, South America. My brother, South America as his employer sent him to get one of their products fixed. Guess which one will end up paying to put in trees? Sister won't be paying much in taxes. But she sure has burned enough carbon to need trees planted. My brother, biked back and forth to work.

Had a friend, she sat on welfare before her son was born until he was 18. Only then did she need to get more than a grade 8 education and now she is a counsellor for FAS kids. She knows that side of life as her son has FAS. What prompted her to get her shit together? No one was going to pay her way any more and she had to grow up.

Every project is worthy to my sister, to my brother they have to have an acceptable return on investment. I think he may be ok with trees, he does like his plants. He knows that you need the fiscal ability to do things, my sister thinks all you have to do is leave the money machine running. Now the big question is who is going to pay for all the boomers that needs to retire now and do not have the funds to do it? The government? Is social Security going to cut it? I hear it has been kicking the can down the road and down the road is here. Money for trees or for people that were relying on the government to return to them? There is a big elephant in the room and everyone is avoiding looking at it.

If anyone is worried about a recession now, just wait a few more years as more 65 year old people start looking for benefits. Why is Russia able to weather the storm we are trying to hit them with? They put away trillions since 2014. They could have planted trees and other things to make life more enjoyable. I would have rather they planted trees, but I recognize what having a few bucks in the bank can mean to you when they are needed. If it were not for the American buck being a reserve currency the US would probably be in default by now. And as being a next door neighbour, I am not looking forward to the day where that may happen.

printer said:

"If people want trees they can plant them themselves, or move to a place with trees. Why do I have to pay taxes to reduce stress and blood pressure of someone I do not know? Pull yourselves up by your own bootstraps, do not expect me to do it."

The above is a sink or swim outlook. "If you do not make a sacrifice for your own good why should I do it for you?" Is it wrong? Shortsighted? "If people expect government to fix all ills then they will do nothing themselves." I know the two extremes, one my brother and the other my sister. My brother who just retired and is worth a million, my sister who could not live in her house if it were not for the person who is living there giving her a little income. She lives by getting government grants for feel good projects. She has nothing for retirement funds, has travelled to Europe, India, South America. My brother, South America as his employer sent him to get one of their products fixed. Guess which one will end up paying to put in trees? Sister won't be paying much in taxes. But she sure has burned enough carbon to need trees planted. My brother, biked back and forth to work.

Had a friend, she sat on welfare before her son was born until he was 18. Only then did she need to get more than a grade 8 education and now she is a counsellor for FAS kids. She knows that side of life as her son has FAS. What prompted her to get her shit together? No one was going to pay her way any more and she had to grow up.

Every project is worthy to my sister, to my brother they have to have an acceptable return on investment. I think he may be ok with trees, he does like his plants. He knows that you need the fiscal ability to do things, my sister thinks all you have to do is leave the money machine running. Now the big question is who is going to pay for all the boomers that needs to retire now and do not have the funds to do it? The government? Is social Security going to cut it? I hear it has been kicking the can down the road and down the road is here. Money for trees or for people that were relying on the government to return to them? There is a big elephant in the room and everyone is avoiding looking at it.

If anyone is worried about a recession now, just wait a few more years as more 65 year old people start looking for benefits. Why is Russia able to weather the storm we are trying to hit them with? They put away trillions since 2014. They could have planted trees and other things to make life more enjoyable. I would have rather they planted trees, but I recognize what having a few bucks in the bank can mean to you when they are needed. If it were not for the American buck being a reserve currency the US would probably be in default by now. And as being a next door neighbour, I am not looking forward to the day where that may happen.

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Cool story.

That doesn't change the fact that there are long run investments in the legislation that did not pass that the government is far better at making at the end of the day. And are very much needed, and would indeed end up saving lots of money to our nation as well as go a long way into helping us clean up the mess we have made over the last couple hundred years.

But I get it, it is easier to just sit back and not actually look at anything in that bill and just pretend like you know it was somehow extreme and would have hurt us.

hanimmal said:

Cool story.

That doesn't change the fact that there are long run investments in the legislation that did not pass that the government is far better at making at the end of the day. And are very much needed, and would indeed end up saving lots of money to our nation as well as go a long way into helping us clean up the mess we have made over the last couple hundred years.

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I agree. I don't bitch about my taxes. I know there is waste in the system but go find a better one. I was real disappointed when our fiscally conservative government closed down our tree farm and sold the works to a startup marijuana firm.

Hemp production facility at former eastern Manitoba tree nursery goes bust
A startup company's plan to turn a tree nursery into a commercial hemp operation has gone bust.

The Manitoba government terminated its land lease last month with Botanist Organic Growers Corporation, the province confirmed on Thursday.

The company, which made no progress toward production of hemp cannabidiol, or CBD, now owes the province $500,000.

Botanist Organic Growers bought the sprawling greenhouse facility near Hadashville, Man., about 90 kilometres east of Winnipeg, from the province in 2019 for $1.43 million. The province had shut down operations at the provincially run tree nursery in 2018, saying it was losing money.

The company agreed to lease the Crown-owned land for $240,000 a year.

It aimed to hire as many as 200 people at the site of the former Pineland Forest Nursery, heralding an economic boom for the region.

"Each season, it was getting more depressing," said Trudy Turchyn, the reeve of the rural municipality of Reynolds.

"You would see the facilities, the greenhouses, everything deteriorating; weeds and trees taking over. It was very sad to see because it was such a gem and had such potential."

When the Manitoba government shut down the tree nursery, which grew seedlings for the province and some for export, it had 67 greenhouses on more than 300 acres (121 hectares) of land. The province expected a search for buyers to generate significant interest.

But the Conservative government is for privatization, shrink government to its core function. The tree nursery was only running a small deficit, the seedlings got planted and eventually harvested throughout the province. Now we do not have seedlings to replenish the areas that are logged. Short sighted.

hanimmal said:

Im with you up until the last bit. I heard this said on Morning Joe too.

The problem is that a lot of the things in the legislation they tried to get through would have helped to reduce prices on a lot of areas for families that now have to pay higher prices on top of the high costs on things like insulin and child care (which would help free more folks up with young kids to work).

Click to expand...

End the filibuster..bring it all to vote on the floor..the filibuster is unconstitutional and if our framers knew they did this?

"no wonder you can't get anything done..filet of what?'

Our system wasn't set up to work this way..hence, it doesn't.

printer said:

Not a bad read.
What Caused the Bronze Age Collapse?
In a matter of decades, though, that thriving culture underwent a rapid and near-total collapse. After 1177 B.C., the survivors of this Bronze Age collapse were plunged into a centuries-long "Dark Ages" that saw the disappearance of some written languages and brought once-mighty kingdoms to their knees.

But what kind of catastrophic event could have triggered such a sudden and sweeping downfall?
It's likely that the simultaneous demise of so many ancient civilizations wasn't caused by a single event or disaster, but by a "perfect storm" of multiple stressors—an epic drought, desperate famine, roving marauders, and more—that toppled these interdependent kingdoms like dominos, according to Eric Cline, author of 1177 B.C.: The Year Civilization Collapsed.

What Caused the Bronze Age Collapse? | HISTORY

More than 3,200 years ago, a vast, interconnected civilization thrived. Then it suddenly collapsed. What happened?

www.history.com

Before the Fall
The author refers to this process as “globalization,” which seems a bit misleading given that the circuits of communication and exchange were regional, not worldwide. In any case, it had effects that can be traced in the layers of scattered archeological digs: commodities and artwork characteristic of one society catch on in another, and by the start of the 12th century a real cosmopolitanism is in effect. At the same time, the economic networks encouraged a market in foodstuffs as well as tin — the major precious resource of the day, something like petroleum became in the 20th century.

But evidence from the digs also shows two other developments during this period: a number of devastating earthquakes and droughts. Some of the cities that collapsed circa 1177 may have been destroyed by natural disaster, or so weakened that they succumbed far more quickly to the marauding Sea Peoples than they would have otherwise. For that matter, it is entirely possible that the Sea Peoples themselves were fleeing from such catastrophes. “In my opinion,” writes Cline, “… none of these individual factors would have been cataclysmic enough on their own to bring down even one of these civilizations, let alone all of them. However, they could have combined to produce a scenario in which the repercussions of each factor were magnified, in what some scholars have called a ‘multiplier effect.’ … The ensuing ‘systems collapse’ could have led to the disintegration of one society after another, in part because of the fragmentation of the global economy and the breakdown of the interconnections upon which each civilization was dependent."

Review of Eric H. Cline, '1177 B.C.: The Year Civilization Collapsed'

1177 B.C. was the kind of year people try to forget. Scott McLemee reports on a book that takes us all the way back.

www.insidehighered.com

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I love Ancient History. This is the time of The Bog people I believe. One day they'll be digging us out. I think I have speculation if not the answer on what happened but I need to check a few spots first. What is described above still sounds like Thera though not the right time.

Bookmarked- I'll be back.

schuylaar said:

End the filibuster..bring it all to vote on the floor..the filibuster is unconstitutional and if our framers knew they did this?

"no wonder you can't get anything done..filet of what?'

Our system wasn't set up to work this way..hence, it doesn't.

Click to expand...

Need about 3 more Democrats to win senate seats to change the filibuster rules.

hanimmal said:

Need about 3 more Democrats to win senate seats to change the filibuster rules.

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Why? We have 50 + 1. We can bring the 400 forward and pass; make things happen because this unconstitutional 'deal' is not what the framers intended..why? because it doesn't work..dems are just too afraid to do anything without the others' consent.

That makes Schumer a cuck.

TIME TO LEAD OR LET SOMEONE WHO WILL! I'm talking to you Democrats.

Citizens want movement; things to happen to take their minds off the current..a reason we lose the Midterms when we hold both chambers..citizens don't show because they think it's a waste of time..nothing happens- like right now..as more states go to 100% mail like Colorado that should change.