Lucius Vorenus
We have been using the General Organics (horrible and smells like DEATH. do not use) and we also add in the Fox farms big bloom. Seems fine but that organic is way too thick and nasty smelling.
Never again.
Your post shows you have little experience with organics. Maybe don't give out advice if you are just experimenting on something new? The smell you describe as death is in fact what (microbial) life LOVES. Organics is feeding microbes who feed our root systems with their waste/carcasses via the action of yet more microbial life. So death is really a big part of the process and not something to be avoided.
NightbirdX
Originally Posted by
Biological Graffity 
...but its recommended for veg AND flower while honeyES (love it) is a deffinately sweeter more specialized fert for flower only...figure I'll use both , but half a doze each....
The thing about humboldt honey is that it can be used in all facets of your grow. Yes, the plants naturally want more sugars during flowering, but that doesn't mean that they don't want any in veg and the microbes most assuredly want them in veg. Honey isn't "just" a sweetner. It works really well for many facets of the plant.
Honey ES and Roots Trinity are the ultimate microbe feeding snacks from these two companies. GO took a different approach and has lots of carbs in the BioThrives (base nutes) which is why they are thicker than say Age Old Organics. Just be aware that there is such thing as over-carbing which can lead to excessive N availability later on in bloom and can delay finishing.
Hey everyone,
I am currently in between nutrients, I was using the Earth Juice 5 pack (Grow, Bloom, Catalyst, Meta-K, and Microblast) but i am not too fond of them, Not grea results. I have narrowed it down to the RO Master Feed Schedule (Grow, Bloom, Amino-Aid, Extreme Serne,Ancient Amber, HPK, HP2, and trinity), or General Organics (Bio Thrive Grow, Bloom, Bio Root, Bio Weed,CaMag+, Bio Bud). I am using 40% FFOF, 40% Pro-Mix BX, and 10% perlite as my medium with White Widow, and Myco-Madness as my Mycorrhizal for the roots. What do you guys think is a better choice? Anyone got any Pro's or Con's on either? I need to make a choice asap. Much apprieciated to anyone that can help me out.
Is the other 10% of your mix high quality EWC? If not that would be a great way to round out your mix. EWC = mucho good bacteria
Going back to Roots Master vs GO? I dont think this is a good comparison. Its simpler to compare just Roots Organics with GO. The master schedule adds in some Soul Synthetics boosters (organic based but not all organic), plus it lowers the dose on the Roots Organics products and most agree that you use alot of concentrate with this lineup but its (may or may not be depending who you are) worth it for great quality and yield at the same time. So I'll break down the two as I've done 2 crops with both lines running side by side (DANKS for the full line free samples respective shops that gave them to me!)
ORGANICNESS
Id say if you want an organicER grow use the Roots Organics full line as directed on their Roots Organics feed chart. I've grown some of the highest quality and yield plants Ive ever grown on this feed chart, using the roots 707 mix (I like large containers, only allowed 4 blooming). The GO is not fully organic, they market it more as vegan, meaning they have slipped in synth micros and other stuff that they deem necessary for the product to meet their high growth/yield (superceeding quality?) standards
EASE OF USE
GO seems easier to use as it has less bottles to the line. This is because there is A LOT of goodness in the BioThrives (base nutes) like all the meals, carbs(cane sugar AND molasses), kelps, micros, some humic/fulvic. However, its dosing is much less straight forward. Their feed chart says to up to DOUBLE the recommended doses of the BioThrives, so some reading of the plants needs is required. Funny sidenote, maybe due to all the carbs the BioThrive bottles have a habit of REALLY gluing themselves shut, like to the point of some channel locks, does NOT help ease of use if your hands aren't strong (med patients, weaklings without tools)
Roots Organics is easy though too. You can stick more to the chart and not worry as much about reading the plants as their chart is more detailed by phase of the plant. Some people feel like this line requires quite a large volume (many ounces) of liquid inputs per gallon if you stick to their recommendations. I did and my plants were awesome. I grew multiple (hybrid) varieties each time and all liked it. It seemed like a lot of liquid guanos on top of everything else but I got no more than the slightest tip burn that told me they had sufficient amounts of everything. The main whiners about using too much volume of liquids are guys who have large grows and yeah thats a lot of liquid to be buying all the time. (thats why most advanced organics growers are moving past or ARE past bottled products all together, WE can make plant food too, not just the big nutrient companies, AACT for example). Roots doesn't have a Ca Mg product in their organic line (Soul Synthetics Infinity is Trinity plus Ca Mg though) Some people have claimed that the GO calmag is a bit weak but I use it with RO water and it gets the job done. I used the GO product on all the plants in the side by side to eliminate that variable from the test.
PS Both of these companies say not to pH, just mix up and go with it, but I couldn't bring myself to do that to my microbes so I pHed to target a runoff in the low 6's. So thats a draw for use.
SMELL (for Lucius Vorenus and anyone sleeping in the same room with their garden)
GO line has a definite funk to its BioThrive bases. To me its a combo of kelp armpit, carb goodness, and wierd somewhat metallic back tones. The other products have odor but not as much, save the BioMarine which has the standard fish hydrolysate REEK (flys will circle for this stuff). I noticed I could smell the Biothrive for about 24 hours after application even outside the tent. But when mixed the odor is doable/expected for any organic gardener IMO.
Roots organics surprised me (my samples sat for about 6 months before I used em). The only one with discernable/reportable odor is the Extreme Serene Kelp which has more potent a smell than any other kelp I've used. Badass as a foliar, the plants reach up towards the light with their leaves after application. My wife can't stand the smell of the concentrate, once its mixed it goes right away. The big surprise for me was the low odor on their Buddha bases as well as their guanos. They are way less odorous than I expected from liquid guano without any masking agents mixed in (wintergreen oil is in sunleaves liquid guanos)
PROCESSING
Huge difference between the two here. GO line is more processed, and seems fully water soluble (nothing at the bottom of bucket after pumping irrigation out) yay if you are a oxymoronic clean organic gardener (I consider myself one sometimes).
The Roots products, mainly I think the Buddha bases, and also the trinity will leave a small pile of sediment in the bottom of my bucket. No sweat for me, I just swish around then dump it in manually, but some people dont like this. I did notice that the top layers of the media also received more "sediment impregnation" similar to top dressing granulars without roots' recommended layer of 3" of coco coir (see master feed chart left side). Roots are WAY MORE RAW, which to me (microbial living-organics gardener) seems like a good thing. I think it may present more immediate/medium/slow diversity of nutrient availabilty, esp compared to completely soluble (put it in or its not there anymore) inputs.
RESULTS
So how did they compare side by side?
Quanititative: They were neck in neck as far as yield. GO had the big yielder (just a beast clone, not better nute) by about 9 grams. On average yield the Roots edged out the GO by like 3 grams. The height, stretch, width and leaf sizes were very equal. Flower size was slightly bigger on the GO but the Roots was real close and slightly denser.
Qualitative: I preferred the buds off the roots plants. It seemed like they had slightly more expression of ALL present flavors per variety. The GO had good flavor spectrum just not quite as wide or deep as the Roots buds. The GO buds seems a little more stoney to a couple people. I couldn't really tell overall but felt like the GO buds hit a little harder right away and the Roots buds all I could focus on was the great complex flavors. Both samples smoked smooth but the Roots went to clean ash easier and the GO left some blackness.
Both of these lines rocked out when I used them, its just up to personal preference when weighing in the differences. Me personally I'd grow with both again especially if they were free again. I am currently trying out BioCanna to see if there really are still some quality gains to be made over less vegan organic approaches. Yield is secondary, for me it all about the Quality. QC hehe. Hope this helps and came in time
