ROOT ROT? - WHITE FROTH

V

varietypack

Member
Hello,


This is my 4th attempt at this now. Where I live the weather is very hot and I have trouble with root rot. On this grow I bought a water chiller, and I keep the water at 17C.


I have two problems:


One plant looks like root rot, but the rest don’t have any signs. This is a recirculating dwc.


The second problem is ph. I am constantly needing to bring it down. There is also a white froth, I am wondering if this is connected to the problem?


PH is always 5.5-6.5 but the goal is 5.8. The air temp is 20-28C depending of time of day. 24 hour leds. Air stones in main tank and every bucket. Humidity is 40-50%. The tent is in an air cond room.

I use the trio general hydroponics. Flairform PH down and pythoff for root rot prevention.


You might find more info in the pics. Please ask any questions.


Appreciate any help. Thanks.
 

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Last edited:
My Name is Mike

My Name is Mike

Well-Known Member
The white foam can be a reaction of nutes used, sometimes airstones encourage it. Normally it's not a concern unless your froth is more like a fermented appearance, which yours looks white.

Process of elimination...

I have a few Qs:

What is your actual PPM/EC reading with nutes?
When you say you are constantly adjusting PH down, what's your water source? Tap?
How much does PH spike, how soon?
What's the PPM/PH starting reading of water before nutes?
What's the airspace measure between top of water in rez and your bottom of nesting pot?
Did you clean the hydroton, if so how?
Are you using a rooting medium? Rockwool?
How often do you change out the water in main tank?

Temps, RH, rez temps, oxygen check out based on your info which is a major contributor to root rot.
 
V

varietypack

Member
My Name is Mike said:
The white foam can be a reaction of nutes used, sometimes airstones encourage it. Normally it's not a concern unless your froth is more like a fermented appearance, which yours looks white.

Process of elimination...

I have a few Qs:

What is your actual PPM/EC reading with nutes?
As per photo 620ppm
When you say you are constantly adjusting PH down, what's your water source? Tap?
Yes town tap water.
How much does PH spike, how soon?
pH rises straight away and doesnt stop rising stopping at around 8 ph.
What's the PPM/PH starting reading of water before nutes?
fresh water in system all circulating, nothing added and given time to settle - ppm 300, ph 8.1 temp 18C.
What's the airspace measure between top of water in rez and your bottom of nesting pot?
about 10-15cm. The bubbles splash water on the net pot. As per photo.
Did you clean the hydroton, if so how?
I flush everything with small amount 10% h2o2 during every change. Not touching roots though.
Are you using a rooting medium? Rockwool?
rapid rooter sponges
How often do you change out the water in main tank?
After 4-5 days I have to change the water. Its milky and white and smelly.

Temps, RH, rez temps, oxygen check out based on your info which is a major contributor to root rot.
Yeah, I dont know what to do now.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
 
My Name is Mike

My Name is Mike

Well-Known Member
Thanks for answering.

In short, the water you're using is shit. It's not unusable but close and you need to start there to maintain PH as best as you can before circulating it in your grow.

Those immediate spikes are going to give you hell all throughout the grow. In 4-5 days, you shouldn't be left with filth for water. What's your step by step process of when you fill up your tank, to adding in all stuff and in what order? This problem isn't going to fix itself and you're going to need to work on narrowing it down. I'de go as far and get a water report to see what's in your source. It sounds like you have an ecosystem of nasty bacteria that's not getting cleaned out.

Maybe someone else can chime in on the PH down and pythoff you use. I haven't heard of it or seen anyone mention using those specific brands but it doesn't appear pythoff is working and PH down isn't doing its job buffering which also points fingers at your water source. Did you buy the chiller used? Have you cleaned it ever?

BTW- I'm not at all coming at you. I want this to work just as much as you do. I learn by helping think outside the box. How did your other 3 grows go?
 
V

varietypack

Member
Thanks Mike. I didn't think you were coming at me.

The last 3 grows ended in root rot. I have hot weather here. It never gets below 10C.

This last grow has new buckets, air stones etc. I still cleaned it all with h202. This is also a new tent.

The brand I am using for root rot and ph is not mentioned here, and just about everything mentioned on this forum I cant get. For example hydroguard. So its hard to follow instructions being from another region of the world, but I did my best with pythoff.

I bought the chiller new and I cleaned it. It has a filter.

my procedure:
drain
flush with water
drain
flush with h2o2, dont touch roots
drain
flush with water
drain
fill to level 100L.
wait to settle. always around 300ppm 8.1ph
add gh trio, micro first. as per 100L instructions.
add pythoff as per 100L instructions
wait to settle. 550ppm ph7.5
ph down to 5.8ish
after an hour, the ph is already about 6 and will reach 8 by morning.
I need to fix ph two or three times a day.

Thanks.
 
hotrodharley

hotrodharley

Well-Known Member
varietypack said:
Thanks Mike. I didn't think you were coming at me.

The last 3 grows ended in root rot. I have hot weather here. It never gets below 10C.

This last grow has new buckets, air stones etc. I still cleaned it all with h202. This is also a new tent.

The brand I am using for root rot and ph is not mentioned here, and just about everything mentioned on this forum I cant get. For example hydroguard. So its hard to follow instructions being from another region of the world, but I did my best with pythoff.

I bought the chiller new and I cleaned it. It has a filter.

my procedure:
drain
flush with water
drain
flush with h2o2, dont touch roots
drain
flush with water
drain
fill to level 100L.
wait to settle. always around 300ppm 8.1ph
add gh trio, micro first. as per 100L instructions.
add pythoff as per 100L instructions
wait to settle. 550ppm ph7.5
ph down to 5.8ish
after an hour, the ph is already about 6 and will reach 8 by morning.
I need to fix ph two or three times a day.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
You've got root problems with pH swings like that.
 
rob333

rob333

Well-Known Member
varietypack said:
How do I fix the root problem?

There is something called 'great white shark' at the shop here. Is that any good for root problems?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
that is not root rot but the colour of your nutes lolol the issue u have is that the plant is way to small to start in a dwc and need to be started in a rockwool cube for 3 weeks to get a nice root zone other wise they will grow but they are going to be pushing thru over watering issues as the punch out the first set of roots which are ment to be looking for water
 
rob333

rob333

Well-Known Member
rob333 said:
that is not root rot but the colour of your nutes lolol the issue u have is that the plant is way to small to start in a dwc and need to be started in a rockwool cube for 3 weeks to get a nice root zone other wise they will grow but they are going to be pushing thru over watering issues as the punch out the first set of roots which are ment to be looking for water
Click to expand...
if sitting in water u will get like a spider like root for the first 4 weeks till the main tap roots come thru that can sustain living in water
 
My Name is Mike

My Name is Mike

Well-Known Member
You need to stabilize your water before you use it. It needs time to be degassed, oxygenated and mixed well before you use it since it seems hard. When you say "wait to settle", I don't know why. You need to make sure everything is being mixed thoroughly, stir and mix the shit out of it.

3 failed hydro grows and experiencing a 4th on the horizon means you have to make a change.

If I were you, I would start with a 5 gallon bucket. Filled with your water, throw in an airstone, PH down to 5.5-5.8. Log the amount of drops of PH used. Wait 12hrs, check reading, adjust again if needed, document how many drops it took. At 24 hours check reading again, if it's stable add a nute mix, stir and mix the shit out of it. Check reading, adjust if needed. Let that sit another 8-12 hours, check reading. If it jumps to 6.0 or less, let it be. Check again at 24 hrs.

You will learn enough about your water to know what it'll take to stabilize it before you hook it up. You waste a lot of water and nutes if you're changing it out every 4-5 days. That constant PH down 3 times a day will kill your grow. It'll be a constant nute lockout and your plants will never get what it wants.
 
Logan Burke

Logan Burke

Well-Known Member
varietypack said:
How do I fix the root problem?

There is something called 'great white shark' at the shop here. Is that any good for root problems?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
I use Great White in DWC, so if you decide to stay with Hydro, I would recommend them...but with PH swings like that, it reminds me of root issues...does the foam smell funny?...Is any leaf matter or perhaps dead and broken off roots decaying in your res? Do you use RO water or tap?
 
V

varietypack

Member
Logan Burke said:
I use Great White in DWC, so if you decide to stay with Hydro, I would recommend them...
I just bought some, should be here today.

but with PH swings like that, it reminds me of root issues...does the foam smell funny?
Yes I said that earlier. "After 4-5 days I have to change the water. Its milky and white and smelly."

...Is any leaf matter or perhaps dead and broken off roots decaying in your res?
Not that i can see. Just milky and white.

Do you use RO water or tap?
My response to this question earlier was tap water.

thanks
Click to expand...
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
rob333 said:
that is not root rot but the colour of your nutes lolol the issue u have is that the plant is way to small to start in a dwc and need to be started in a rockwool cube for 3 weeks to get a nice root zone other wise they will grow but they are going to be pushing thru over watering issues as the punch out the first set of roots which are ment to be looking for water
Click to expand...
I agree that the roots are way to small for DWC, but IMO Coco Pellets are a much option for seedlings and clones

OP what strength h2o2 did you use?

I would soak your roots in either pure water with maybe a drop of dish soap, or dried yucca (a wetting agent), gently rinse them off, and start with fresh water and nutes
 
Logan Burke

Logan Burke

Well-Known Member
That's not too small for DWC, I always start mine out as such. Leaving them in rockwool for three weeks would simply slow down the exposive growth that you would be achieving if even only a few roots were touching the water in a DWC bucket.
 
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
Your water is shite so I'd invest in an RO unit or buy RO water like I do. I have done about 50 DWC grows since '01 and many times I have not changed nutes for the whole grow. Most of the time I'll do a change after the stretch and switch to Lucas formula style of feeding using AN 3-part. I've started seeds right in the net pots so size of roots doesn't affect success.

What's the starting ppm of your water? Bound to be high if the pH is 8.1 at the start and very alkaline which is why it keeps going up. Like @My Name is Mike said you need to test your water over a period of time to see how much pH down it takes to make the water stable or use RO for less problems and hassle.

As long as you have a chiller I'd drop that pythoff stuff as that may be the problem. If you can keep the nutes down to 16-18C there is no need for it or hydroguard type of products. I've never used them but used to use 35% food grade peroxide at 0.5ml/L twice a week for maintenance before I made a DIY chiller out of a water cooler then dropped the peroxide.

With RO and pH Perfect nutes I never bother checking pH whether in DWC or soilless growing. Simple and easy just how I like it.

Good luck!

:peace:
 
Jaxsmoke

Jaxsmoke

Member
varietypack said:
Hello,


This is my 4th attempt at this now. Where I live the weather is very hot and I have trouble with root rot. On this grow I bought a water chiller, and I keep the water at 17C.


I have two problems:


One plant looks like root rot, but the rest don’t have any signs. This is a recirculating dwc.


The second problem is ph. I am constantly needing to bring it down. There is also a white froth, I am wondering if this is connected to the problem?


PH is always 5.5-6.5 but the goal is 5.8. The air temp is 20-28C depending of time of day. 24 hour leds. Air stones in main tank and every bucket. Humidity is 40-50%. The tent is in an air cond room.

I use the trio general hydroponics. Flairform PH down and pythoff for root rot prevention.


You might find more info in the pics. Please ask any questions.


Appreciate any help. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Very nice setup, I think your doing to much, just get some hydroguard 2ml per gal of water each wk, throw in Maxigro sit back and watch it grow.
 

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V

varietypack

Member
Jaxsmoke said:
Very nice setup, I think your doing to much, just get some hydroguard 2ml per gal of water each wk, throw in Maxigro sit back and watch it grow.
Click to expand...
Thanks Jaxsmoke. I can't get hydroguard in my country, otherwise I would use it. Pythoff was the only thing I could find. You have a great photo there, but there is no way I could do that in my country. The temperature and humidity is no good for cannabis.
 
V

varietypack

Member
UPDATE: I have changed from using pythoff to using great white shark powder. I have been told the powder is a version made just for my country. So it should attack anything we have here. After 12 hours, the PH has gone from 5.6-6.0. So the PH swings have improved with this change. Also noting that the ppm is down from 600. I will also look into getting my water treated.
 

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