Root gel and some experiments

Maccabee said:

Very cool data. Are you noticing any retardation of primary growth (or flowering, for those who have used rooting supplements all the way through)? I've read cautions against adding too much rooting/transplant supplement once vegetative growth begins to accelerate, as too much hormone can apparently inhibit growth.

From Cervantes Indoor/Outdoor Medical Growers Bible:

(p. 47)

Although, later on, he says this:

(p. 289)

Some experts claim that these compounds shouldn't be used in transplants or maturing plants at all, only for cloning--as in cloning, you want to arrest primary/secondary growth in favor of new lateral root growth. Conversely, apparently Vitamin B1 on its own doesn't do much--you need hormones (NAA and/or IBA auxins) and ferts (N) for any real effect and over-application of hormones may lead to adverse effects. To drive the point home, some commercial herbicides are actually massive overdoses of synthetic auxins.

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Ive been reading & digesting much of this information in this thread for a few days now,i still dont understand much of it though

The retardation you mentioned is what i think im experiencing,i measured the circumference of the bud in my pic & it has gained just a tad over 1 inch in girth since given the hormone.

Ive been thinking about the links ive read & where they speak of regeneration so i tried something else,i have a batch that is 100% ready for harvest with 99% red hairs & no new calyx's for a week or so,they were flushed & i planned on taking them down today,the soil was very dry,i watered one plant with the hormone laden water early yesterday morning,i went back this afternoon to look at them & i have new calyx's on the plant,growing in small clumps.

I took the rest of that batch down this afternoon but i left the newly treated plant & another plant that is ready for harvest,i watered the dry plant with plain ph'ed water to see if it will get new calyx clusters like the treated plant.

So far ive seen explosive bud growth in the first plant treated,better leaf formation in the treated seedlings,new calyx development(2nd plant treated) on a fully ripened plant,treated clones are growing fast but so are the untreated clones,i need to watch them more.

panhead said:

The retardation you mentioned is what i think im experiencing,

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join the club... lol

no but seriously, thats some great info pan. maybe a little rooting hormone is a new additive for plants. it doesnt seem like you have had any ill effects from the experiments, right?
just bigger and better growth?

it makes sense, give the roots some rooting hormones so they can produce more roots and suck up more nutes- or at least thats what im getting from it.

I think there is more to it than just root development,if it was just about roots then it stands to reason that increased calyx formation & an explosive growth rate would not be seen within 2 days like ive seen so far,in order for it to be 100% attributed to the root system i'd think it would take longer to notice a change.

I think the existing roots are sucking up the hormone & sending it to whatever area of the plant that is experiencing its growth cycle,the seedlings & clones get it sent to root mass & plant structure,vegging plants get it sent to the plant structure & leaves,budding plants get it sent directly to the flowers.

Saturday evening im going to spray that shit directly onto half the buds on one plant & see what happens.

Yeah, it's not just a rooting hormone, it's a growth hormone. It controls cell division and fruiting/flowering, in combination with other hormones. The problem is that the wrong hormonal balance at the wrong time can give you the opposite of what you want.

I'm still trying to digest a lot of the literature too.

BTW, it seems that Gibberelin (asked about above) is also one of the agents used to feminize seeds, as it can force a female plant to produce male flowers (hermie) for self-pollination, as is ethylene (mentioned above) which seeds can be exposed to in gaseous form to increase the proportion of female plants by as much as 25%. The two are related: gibberelin inhibits or displaces (not sure which) ethylene (also not sure if the inverse is true.)

Maccabee said:

Yeah, it's not just a rooting hormone, it's a growth hormone. It controls cell division and fruiting/flowering, in combination with other hormones. The problem is that the wrong hormonal balance at the wrong time can give you the opposite of what you want.

I'm still trying to digest a lot of the literature too.

BTW, it seems that Gibberelin (asked about above) is also one of the agents used to feminize seeds, as it can force a female plant to produce male flowers (hermie) for self-pollination, as is ethylene (mentioned above) which seeds can be exposed to in gaseous form to increase the proportion of female plants by as much as 25%. The two are related: gibberelin inhibits or displaces (not sure which) ethylene (also not sure if the inverse is true.)

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ive gotten to where i just love to read what you write now, lol

Maccabee said:

Yeah, it's not just a rooting hormone, it's a growth hormone. It controls cell division and fruiting/flowering, in combination with other hormones. The problem is that the wrong hormonal balance at the wrong time can give you the opposite of what you want.

I'm still trying to digest a lot of the literature too.

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I guess the million dollar question's for me are when to give & how much,then when to repeat & when to stop,the plant that had explosive growth was early in the 6th week of flowering,the new growth is sticking out like tumors on that plant.

wow, look what i started.



my leaves are getting spots on them now. the lower stalk is getting "knotty". the main stalk is still curly. i mist the lower stalk once a night when the gel dries and turns white. this plant is on the same schedule as all the others and none of the others are getting these spotty leaves. and it's growth appears to be stunted. it's the one in the middle.

Yeah, I was wondering if that would happen. Too much IAA/NAA will arrest apical growth. In theory, you should get more axillary growth, but the plant may not be well enough established for that, or maybe isn't getting enough light having been outgrown by it's neighbors. Or, most likely, there's a lot more going on behind the scenes that we aren't aware of. This kind of stuff makes me wish I'd taken an actual botany course at some point, so I would have a better idea where to look for information and how to make sense of it.

NOW YOU WENT AND DID IT,,, YOU WENT AND F-D AROUND WITH NATURE AND SHE IS GUNNA START F-N BACK WITH YA,,, I'LL WATCH THIS ONE FROM HERE,, GOOD LUCK,,LOL...................

fdd2blk said:

wow, look what i started.



my leaves are getting spots on them now. the lower stalk is getting "knotty". the main stalk is still curly. i mist the lower stalk once a night when the gel dries and turns white. this plant is on the same schedule as all the others and none of the others are getting these spotty leaves. and it's growth appears to be stunted. it's the one in the middle.


View attachment 91903 View attachment 91904 View attachment 91905 View attachment 91906 View attachment 91907

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This thread & little experiments were doing is making me dream up all kinds of goofy shit,laying in bed last night this one hit me about the plant i have thats experiencing the abby normal growth rate .

I have nicknamed this plant " The Moose " because of the way the new calyx's are making the bud look sorta like a moose antler.

What would happen if revegged the plant after harvest,then took clones off of her,would the increased growth rate now be a built in part of her genetics ?

panhead said:

What would happen if revegged the plant after harvest,then took clones off of her,would the increased growth rate now be a built in part of her genetics ?

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not sure about the answer, but theres one way you could find out!!!

do it, give it a shot, and let us know how you make out.

clones are supposed to be 100% genetic replica, but after you revert back to vegg people say it weakens the plants genetic integrity.. JMHO

good luck pan.

also if its a killer strain, i wouldnt mind adding a little moose to my garden

i had two seedlings, one looked great whilst the other didnt even emerge untill a day an a half later and even then it looked ill and underdeveloped. Height wise aswell it didnt compare to the healthy one. So i added a bit of the gel to water and watered the runt. Now its same height if not taller than the other one and its leaves have really picked up. Could be a coincidence, but could also be the gel?

panhead said:

What would happen if revegged the plant after harvest,then took clones off of her,would the increased growth rate now be a built in part of her genetics ?

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I don't think so, that would imply that the hormone is also a mutagen. That would probably be well documented.

However, one might expect that physiological changes that had occurred in the branch tissue resulting from gel application prior to its removal for rooting would continue to express themselves in new growth on/from that already treated tissue.

(Here's a wild ass guess: you might get faster rooting and more immediate growth as the donor plant would have been in effect been 'pre-treated' for cloning. Just a guess, as I said.)

Did that make sense?

Maccabee said:

Did that make sense?

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can you try in layman's terms lol

Yes maccabee that sounds like it makes sense to me. I can't see a genetic change from growth hormone , am watching this thread closely.

Maccabee said:

I don't think so, that would imply that the hormone is also a mutagen. That would probably be well documented.

However, one might expect that physiological changes that had occurred in the branch tissue resulting from gel application prior to its removal for rooting would continue to express themselves in new growth on/from that already treated tissue.

(Here's a wild ass guess: you might get faster rooting and more immediate growth as the donor plant would have been in effect been 'pre-treated' for cloning. Just a guess, as I said.)

Did that make sense?

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Thats what i thought but one can hope,sure would be nice to see that growth rate on all plants.

this is the original one that the stalk swelled up on. it is shorter than the others but the stalk is much thicker and it is hard like wood.

Okay so tons of pics...begin w/the branch in water....I have trimmed back the yellow leaves and clipped the tips of the leaves left as I do when I clone...

The rest of the experiment was conducted on my main plant...youll see the branches that I scraped the surface then applied the gel....pretty dramatic fattening of the branches I did this to....as well as the pics of the main stalk...these places actually were where drops of the gel landed after application to other parts of plant and I just rubbed them in after...see all that bulging....it looks so freaky it tripps me out..and notice all the places where I had taken clones and their nubs remain I had rubbed those w/the gel as well and now they are all fat.....then the inside of where my plant got crushed during the bend of into the screen see how its bulging all around from the crush from the gel application....trippy ass shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

P.S. I showed the top of my screen just to show you that despite all the craziness on the stem and branches the plant looks great!!

wow, that main stalk looks spooky crazy. i'm gonna go rub 5 gallons on my apricot tree. lol

I know ive been slacking,ive been meaning to snap a pic of that treated bud,i will tomorrow,its went berserk,it now looks like one of those mines that the navy puts in the water that stick to ships then explode,the way its all knoby looking is very odd for sure.

I hope my head dont end up like that after smokin it,i need to find a volunteer