ridiculously poly - hybridy

Thread for mega-poly-hybrids.



Questions:

I take plant A (skunk hybrid x diesel hybrid) , cross it to B (kush hybrid x old thai), (both poly-hybrid to start with)

Do you call them f1, F1, or something else? The true definition of F1 I think is to cross ''IBL Z'' X ''IBL Y''

So now that you have bred A to B, pick your favourite female, she is skunk diesel kush old thai, plus whatever that was mixed in those hybrids.

now you keep cross breeding her with C, D, E, F, G ... all hybrids, but you keep selecting for certain traits that you like (frost, structure, yield, AROMA, TERPENES...)

Then, you find your killer female, cube her ... that first back cross, you call them F1, right?, regardless of how diverse the genetic pool might be?

Anyway, my thoughts, at this point, is that genetic diversity will take cannabis to a whole new level. I am breeding super ridiculously poly hybrid, and I call it breeding, screw it. Now lets just hope I don't end up with plain old brown just like when you are mixing all the colors lol.


Ive got lots of super polies in the making, I might start sharing my results here, if you have plants that are super hybridized, post pics here.

Im also looking into this just started breeders bible

What is breeders bible?

Here are 2 ideas I am currently working on.

1st cross breeding totally un related lines, non stop, meaning furthering the lines 3-4 times a year. Harvest the seeds, pop some within a month, cross breed with unrelated line, repeat... so that within a few years I'll be really far into it... should create phenomenal phenotype hunting opportunities.

2nd is I take lines that share parents but are not directly related, separated by at least one generation. A good example of this is my miss jack. Which was pennywise (jack the ripper x harlequin) X senor ampero (jack the ripper x Juanita lalagrimosa) where both shared jack the ripper for parents but came from a different seed line. Now I took these missjack and bred them to various other strains. So that the next step will be to cross for example my (BCD x MissJack x chupacabra ) with my (Spam x Dragon Fruit x MissJack) of course all of this is done selecting my favorite traits to the best of my ability and space.

Hope this makes sense. I'm really far into some seed lines, I have created one F3 so far but over the years I have some lines I have started a long time ago.

One thing I learned the hard way is I made a bunch of seeds with my keeper mom (respect x chemo x ancient og) thinking I could get rid of her now and that I could find her again in the seeds... not so far. I think once u have ur magical plant, cubing is the thing to do before letting a cut go.

(((Respect X Chemo) X Ancient OG ) X Blue City Diesel)


Made some seeds with a dragon fruit and or skylotus

(((Respect X Chemo) X Ancient OG ) X Blue City Diesel) , same batch of seeds, different pheno, no seeds in that one... shoulda hit that one..

That one is (PennyWise X Senora Ampero) X Blue City Diesel


I just harvested another one, same pheno as this one, pollinated with the THCV rich strain Chupacabra. I am already trying to pop some of those, I made hundreds!!

It depends on how worked and stable each side is. It's not an F1 if they're unstable and the outcome is unstable. I'd just call it a polyhybrid.

imo, this day and age of F1 hybrid is largely marketing from older days.

Lots of the seed banks, kind seed, willy jack, and those over seas would use a lot of the "true F1 hybrid" in their marketing and a lot of that trickles down.

Some seed makers have so many strains, there's literally no friggin' way I believe they've put in the time to make a proper IBL (another highly used marketing key phrasing)

That doesn't go to say that what seeds are putting out, in terms of plants, are fire fire fire.

Soooo many of these mut poly-hybrids are phenom genetics, who cares really. Unless you're really trying to lock down land race varieties, and then breed two land race or otherwise IBL varieties to get your true F1.... I stopped caring about that stuff a long time ago, I'm no breeder though.

GreenSanta, some of those look absolutely encrusted with frost! Nice job brother!

OGEvilgenius said:

It depends on how worked and stable each side is. It's not an F1 if they're unstable and the outcome is unstable. I'd just call it a polyhybrid.

Click to expand...

sure, so what do you call it when you do ``polyhybrid A`` X ``polyhybrid A`` from the same batch of seeds, technically they would be F2s , but can't go to F2's without F1s ??

IMO, and from what I have read now, I think the proper thing to call them would be ''polyhybrid F1'' and maybe lose the polyhybrid word once you get to F3s ?

GreenSanta said:

sure, so what do you call it when you do ``polyhybrid A`` X ``polyhybrid A`` from the same batch of seeds, technically they would be F2s , but can't go to F2's without F1s ??

IMO, and from what I have read now, I think the proper thing to call them would be ''polyhybrid F1'' and maybe lose the polyhybrid word once you get to F3s ?

Click to expand...

Haven't done a ton of poly's but the one's I've done haven't shown any issues like hermie traits or the like. Difficult really to get any true F1's unless you're starting with IBL's. I don't worry too much about it, I just use the Fx/Bx tags to keep track of which generation the cross itself is.

This one is originally a poly itself I suppose (Blueberry x Jack The RIpper), not sure if it would be considered poly since both lines were likely F10+. I call it Blue Ripper, it's at F2 and have back crossed it, will call it F2 still until I find the right F2 male to take them to F3. No instability signs in this cross and I've run somewhere around 50'sh phenos. Been running 2 phenos of the F1's for a couple of years, the sativa-dom pheno turned out great for outdoor, great production and good PM resistance (the JTR pheno that started it is almost immune to PM). This one is at Day 33.



Another recent poly cross with the Blue Ripper (Blueberry x JTR) F1 male crossed with my HSO Blue Dream female pheno. This is the 1st tester run with 2 phenos that made the cull. Both are looking good but this one's been frosty from about 2 weeks on Currently at Day 48.



Cheers

GroErr said:

Haven't done a ton of poly's but the one's I've done haven't shown any issues like hermie traits or the like. Difficult really to get any true F1's unless you're starting with IBL's. I don't worry too much about it, I just use the Fx/Bx tags to keep track of which generation the cross itself is.

This one is originally a poly itself I suppose (Blueberry x Jack The RIpper), not sure if it would be considered poly since both lines were likely F10+. I call it Blue Ripper, it's at F2 and have back crossed it, will call it F2 still until I find the right F2 male to take them to F3. No instability signs in this cross and I've run somewhere around 50'sh phenos. Been running 2 phenos of the F1's for a couple of years, the sativa-dom pheno turned out great for outdoor, great production and good PM resistance (the JTR pheno that started it is almost immune to PM). This one is at Day 33.

View attachment 3829748

Another recent poly cross with the Blue Ripper (Blueberry x JTR) F1 male crossed with my HSO Blue Dream female pheno. This is the 1st tester run with 2 phenos that made the cull. Both are looking good but this one's been frosty from about 2 weeks on Currently at Day 48.

View attachment 3829749

Cheers

Click to expand...

This is what most people are doing, 2 IBLs crossed together are the ideal F1 to start a line. correct me if I am wrong but the the closer you are to using true IBLs (like I heard somewhere adam dunn show or hash church, that if we had more than 5 senses there would be no such thing as a true breeding line... something like that anyway lol) when making F1s, the more predictable the outcome will be, the more mendelian if you wish, where you should end up with 4 different phenos, 1 mostly like mom, 1 mostly like that, 2 different phenos that will be a mix of mom and dad.

none the less, taking your F1 to F2 is a piece of cake, you should easily be able to find what you were after in the first place, the trickier part is selecting the male of course but with a bit of luck... where it gets harder for small home breeders/seed makers is to take a cross from F2 to F3. You will find as you start growing your F2s that even though you used 2 stable parents to start with, you will find a lot of diversity, variation in the phenos.

For that reason, when I find my next keeper, I will not only attempt to take it to F3 but most importantly I will cube it. I think cubing makes a lot more sense for hobby breeders/seed makers. If you stick to the plan the probability of creating a seed line that is stable and uniform is very good.

basically, the idea with this thread and the near future for me is to simply keep pollinating the most stellar females I get, try to keep blood lines un-related, and see what happens.

GreenSanta said:

This is what most people are doing, 2 IBLs crossed together are the ideal F1 to start a line. correct me if I am wrong but the the closer you are to using true IBLs (like I heard somewhere adam dunn show or hash church, that if we had more than 5 senses there would be no such thing as a true breeding line... something like that anyway lol) when making F1s, the more predictable the outcome will be, the more mendelian if you wish, where you should end up with 4 different phenos, 1 mostly like mom, 1 mostly like that, 2 different phenos that will be a mix of mom and dad.

none the less, taking your F1 to F2 is a piece of cake, you should easily be able to find what you were after in the first place, the trickier part is selecting the male of course but with a bit of luck... where it gets harder for small home breeders/seed makers is to take a cross from F2 to F3. You will find as you start growing your F2s that even though you used 2 stable parents to start with, you will find a lot of diversity, variation in the phenos.

For that reason, when I find my next keeper, I will not only attempt to take it to F3 but most importantly I will cube it. I think cubing makes a lot more sense for hobby breeders/seed makers. If you stick to the plan the probability of creating a seed line that is stable and uniform is very good.

basically, the idea with this thread and the near future for me is to simply keep pollinating the most stellar females I get, try to keep blood lines un-related, and see what happens.

Click to expand...

Yeah sounds like we're looking at things very similar, cubing the keeper F2's is where I am with these right now. But I'm also planning to take it to F3's, nothing wrong with taking the lines in different directions, more likely to find something special. Have to do a male run from the F2's, should be able to pick out a decent male. I've run about 40 of the F2's and found some relatively easy traits to pick them out in even in veg. The killer and shorter running phenos (<8 weeks) have all had a strong stem rub smell after about 5 weeks from popping, a strong road kill skunk smell, consistent from the F1's, same thing there.

This latest chuck from a killer male Blue Ripper x Blue Dream was just a fun chuck while I had the pollen out. Sometimes random chucks pay out, that one pheno is looking and smelling like a winner Have another line going with this Blue Ripper x Harlequin. Hoping to find something like 75/25 THC/CBD with that one. Just hitting F2's with that one. Have a nice F1 male and just pulled a very nice looking female that could be a contender. Great structure and stacking well. No training at all, she's straight up from seed, in a 2gal, day 12 from the flip and starting to stretch out.



I like the idea of random poly chucks, I tend to get lucky pulling killer phenos

Awesome work GroErr!! thanks for sharing. It will be interesting to see what you get with your BR X H . It will be even more interesting to see how they compare with my crosses since Jack The Ripper and Harlequin are in the background of nearly ALL of my CBD crosses. (Harlequin being a parent of pennywise...as you probably know.)

My main thoughts behind this ridiculous poly-hybridization is that if you look at us, humans, we seem to benefit greatly from uber hybridization, by this I obviously dont suggest that people would inbreed but I am looking at a much bigger picture. Are we trying to get humans to all look alike like it's some neat thing to do?? no!!?? I thought so.

I believe that as time goes on, when you see black people ''cross - breeding'' for a lack of better word with white, or asian with mexicans or ... you get the idea. well I should probably stop talking here because I am talking out of my ass but I ll carry on. I believe humans are getting smarter and smarter ( and lazier, in most cases!!). The ones that chose to can be fitter, faster, stronger than never before. I believe a lot of this has to do with the fact that we are becoming uber hybridized. Again, talking out of my ass... But I truly think by doing the same thing with plants we will end up with plants that will be much more vigorous\healthy. I will repeat myself, I am talking out of my ass, just sharing my thoughts/opinions.

I am not bashing IBLs, I love them, just like clones, they are essential to the industry and I plan to create my own when I am ready. (I have one F3 batch of seeds under my belt, lots of F2s and insane amount of F1s....

What I am after though is that special clone only plant that reflects my taste as a grower and as a stoner.

Thanks everyone for participating and sharing. I will use this thread to post pics of random poly hybrids and I invite everyone to share pics and thoughts.

Cheers.

GreenSanta said:

Thread for mega-poly-hybrids.



Questions:

I take plant A (skunk hybrid x diesel hybrid) , cross it to B (kush hybrid x old thai), (both poly-hybrid to start with)

Do you call them f1, F1, or something else? The true definition of F1 I think is to cross ''IBL Z'' X ''IBL Y''

So now that you have bred A to B, pick your favourite female, she is skunk diesel kush old thai, plus whatever that was mixed in those hybrids.

now you keep cross breeding her with C, D, E, F, G ... all hybrids, but you keep selecting for certain traits that you like (frost, structure, yield, AROMA, TERPENES...)

Then, you find your killer female, cube her ... that first back cross, you call them F1, right?, regardless of how diverse the genetic pool might be?

Anyway, my thoughts, at this point, is that genetic diversity will take cannabis to a whole new level. I am breeding super ridiculously poly hybrid, and I call it breeding, screw it. Now lets just hope I don't end up with plain old brown just like when you are mixing all the colors lol.


Ive got lots of super polies in the making, I might start sharing my results here, if you have plants that are super hybridized, post pics here.

Click to expand...

You've done some research so I wont troll ya nothing gets me more than people that just want answers given to them.

"I take plant A (skunk hybrid x diesel hybrid) , cross it to B (kush hybrid x old thai), (both poly-hybrid to start with)

Do you call them f1, F1, or something else? The true definition of F1 I think is to cross ''IBL Z'' X ''IBL Y''

Parents Plant A and Plant B would be your P1 generation (parental)

Regardless of how stable or uniform the beans produced by crossing the P1's you call that F1 (P1 x P1 or Plant A x Plant B)

Regarding the backcross you answered your own question without knowing it, the first backcross is called.. wait for it.... a backcross You have 2 kinds of backcrosses each serving an important role.

To make it easier to follow we'll call the resulting F1 cross "dank" and we'll assume you took parents from each generation F1 x F1 reaulting in, F2, than F2 x F2 = F3 ect... you took it to Dank F4

In your situation the first backcross would be Dank IBL 1 (inline backcossed 1 time) searching Dank IBL 1 for a male you would than mate that male to your Dank F4 keeper thus creating Dank IBL 2, IBL 2 male would dust Dank F4 and you'l dan IBL 3.... and really no reason to take it beyond 4, the difference between IBL 4 and IBL 5 is like 2% or less I'm not doing the math tonight. IBL 4 seeds would be ~94% Dank F4 not need to take it to 95% or 96%.

The other backcross and what you see often is taking a clone only (doesn't have to be but usually is) and hitting it with a male the resulting F1 cross hits the clone only resulting in lets say Gorilla Glue #4 bx1 just like before you pheno hunt Bx1 to hit back to the GG4 mom to get BX 2.

Never dreamed in 1990 that the day would come that I was too lazy to "click" on something. I occasionally make seeds and just got some Oaxacan and Acapulco Goldfor that reason. Peak Seeds BC has IBL's and his hybrids are f1, period. His plants are more like each other of the same strain than most other breeders. Bodhi and Peak always in flower here!

GreenSanta said:

sure, so what do you call it when you do ``polyhybrid A`` X ``polyhybrid A`` from the same batch of seeds, technically they would be F2s , but can't go to F2's without F1s ??

IMO, and from what I have read now, I think the proper thing to call them would be ''polyhybrid F1'' and maybe lose the polyhybrid word once you get to F3s ?

Click to expand...

Name a popular strain that is not a poly? Without naming something from the 70's you can't. Don't get so hung up on the poly thing if anything I would go out of my way to announce a landrace x landrace otherwise you're already starting with a poly 9/10 times.

My best advice for you would be to pick a strain and go with it. Sounds like you have beans to last a lifetime so no concerns of running out. Study 1 cross grow out what you can of it find your favorite females. I took a mutt Double Purple Doja hit it with a male Blue Satelite 2.2 so far my favorite pheno is straight up grapefruit (the strain) but with much better cola structure than grapefruit. Now I may find a total DPD pheno in there but with better smell or taste than the original (really wasn't a fan of the smoke but the color and structure were good so this is a step towards my goal of a killer purple). If I find 2 pheno's I love well than I may take each one and isolate their traits via IBL the first step is easy same male gets to hit both.

So here is where genetics gets cool... the DPD is a total mutt like a 4 way cross and the Blue Satelite is 75% blueberry 25% Sweet tooth #3 (sweet tooth 3 = 75% Sweet Pink Grapefruit 25% blueberry) so so my resulting F1 is made up of ~18% grapefruit when you break it all down and for me to get a grapefruit out of that cross blew my mind and the plant is amazing.

Grojak said:

Name a popular strain that is not a poly? Without naming something from the 70's you can't. Don't get so hung up on the poly thing if anything I would go out of my way to announce a landrace x landrace otherwise you're already starting with a poly 9/10 times.

My best advice for you would be to pick a strain and go with it. Sounds like you have beans to last a lifetime so no concerns of running out. Study 1 cross grow out what you can of it find your favorite females. I took a mutt Double Purple Doja hit it with a male Blue Satelite 2.2 so far my favorite pheno is straight up grapefruit (the strain) but with much better cola structure than grapefruit. Now I may find a total DPD pheno in there but with better smell or taste than the original (really wasn't a fan of the smoke but the color and structure were good so this is a step towards my goal of a killer purple). If I find 2 pheno's I love well than I may take each one and isolate their traits via IBL the first step is easy same male gets to hit both.

So here is where genetics gets cool... the DPD is a total mutt like a 4 way cross and the Blue Satelite is 75% blueberry 25% Sweet tooth #3 (sweet tooth 3 = 75% Sweet Pink Grapefruit 25% blueberry) so so my resulting F1 is made up of ~18% grapefruit when you break it all down and for me to get a grapefruit out of that cross blew my mind and the plant is amazing.

Click to expand...

Grojak said:

You've done some research so I wont troll ya nothing gets me more than people that just want answers given to them.

"I take plant A (skunk hybrid x diesel hybrid) , cross it to B (kush hybrid x old thai), (both poly-hybrid to start with)

Do you call them f1, F1, or something else? The true definition of F1 I think is to cross ''IBL Z'' X ''IBL Y''

Parents Plant A and Plant B would be your P1 generation (parental)

Regardless of how stable or uniform the beans produced by crossing the P1's you call that F1 (P1 x P1 or Plant A x Plant B)

Regarding the backcross you answered your own question without knowing it, the first backcross is called.. wait for it.... a backcross You have 2 kinds of backcrosses each serving an important role.

To make it easier to follow we'll call the resulting F1 cross "dank" and we'll assume you took parents from each generation F1 x F1 reaulting in, F2, than F2 x F2 = F3 ect... you took it to Dank F4

In your situation the first backcross would be Dank IBL 1 (inline backcossed 1 time) searching Dank IBL 1 for a male you would than mate that male to your Dank F4 keeper thus creating Dank IBL 2, IBL 2 male would dust Dank F4 and you'l dan IBL 3.... and really no reason to take it beyond 4, the difference between IBL 4 and IBL 5 is like 2% or less I'm not doing the math tonight. IBL 4 seeds would be ~94% Dank F4 not need to take it to 95% or 96%.

The other backcross and what you see often is taking a clone only (doesn't have to be but usually is) and hitting it with a male the resulting F1 cross hits the clone only resulting in lets say Gorilla Glue #4 bx1 just like before you pheno hunt Bx1 to hit back to the GG4 mom to get BX 2.

Click to expand...

Very interesting, sorta clears it up a bit and thanks for not trolling.

Sorry for being lazy with my questions sometimes but at least I try not to spread misinformation and I always let people know whether I know what I am talking about or not lol.

The main goal of this thread is mainly to discuss poly hybridization to the max and we first had to get the basics straight.

When you say I should focus on one or even start with Landrace x Landrace, it is exactly why I started this thread. I could certainly go that route but it's not what I chose to do. I am chasing the dragon, looking for the ultimate holy grail which does not exist. I will get as close as I can though and when I am satisfied with a plant that is when I'll get more serious.

Landrace genes are what make the strains of today what they are, no point going backward IMO.

To put it into perspective, even though I'm totally small scale, I've grown thousands of plants from seeds over the years, hundreds of different cultivars of different heritage. It all started on year 2 when I learned about 12 12 from seed, I have since moved away from 12 12 from seed but in my early years it allowed me to cover a lot of ground....,

Over the years, I have kept the genetics of the ones I like best and so by now I have a very diverse gene pool to find the dragon.

Ah yes, the chase for the elusive perfect pheno Even though we know it doesn't really exist, the chase is the fun part! To me it doesn't matter since I grow way more than I'd ever personally use and not growing for anything other than personal meds. Even if I do a whole run and find nothing worthy, it's just more for the hash bin and on to the next chase

I wasn't implying you should do a landrace strain I simply ment everything is a polyhybrid when you look at it unless it is a landrace x a landrace but how do you know that sometime over the past 1000 years that landrace was't a pollenation of 2 plants?

As for sticking to one strain regardless if its an 8 way cross you have a better chance to find that elusive pheno in 100 seeds of the same than 10 seeds of 10 strains. Plus as a breeder you'll learn a ton growing out the same plant 100 times seeing the variations in height, flower, leaf, bud structure, smell ect... ect...

I'm working on a backcross (I can't believe doesn't exist) of an amazing clone only, but here is whats cool, I'm growing out F1 and will take a male to hit to the clone only to start the BX process but also I'll make a few new strains using that F1 to a few females that might be a good fit. My point is you can still make plenty of new crosses while working just 1, in my case when i got to make my BX4 that BX3 male will be really close to the original clone only (88%) so it will be like using that clone only as a male or pretty close. I'm not using GG4 to BX (everyones done it) but could you imagine having GG4 male pollen, everyone would want that.