Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread

[Groat21]

ummmm i didn't say i no-till and i explained what is the aeration, it is the excessive ratio of coco, trust me man ik what constitutes no till. i am not no-tilling because i am using small bots and doing male female runs and multiple strains ect. what i am doing is called recyled organic soil and i said no-till OR recycling. anyway take or leave the advice but at least read it right

No-till is specifically what I asked about, and you even said it in the first sentence of your response. Then you went on forever about something you’ve already posted about(which I had already read) and didn’t answer my question, you just told me what you do....great!

Anyways... can anyone answer my original question? What is a good ratio for aeration? And perlite alternatives? Thanks!

 

[Groat21]

if you wanna no till than cover crop and/or top dress and do the same shit smh i am telling how i re-ammend instead of simply saying use coco for aeration and looking like an idiot

You added in this second part afterwards, can you clarify a bit more? Instead of just saying “if you wanna do the same shit smh”

I was, in fact, going to do a no-till and incorporate some sort of cover crop/top dress/ use compost and worm casting teas.

By all means, if there’s an argument against this I’d love to hear why!

 

[outliergenetix]

No-till is specifically what I asked about, and you even said it in the first sentence of your response. Then you went on forever about something you’ve already posted about(which I had already read) and didn’t answer my question, you just told me what you do....great!

Anyways... can anyone answer my original question? What is a good ratio for aeration? And perlite alternatives? Thanks!

and i speciffically said how to do it if that is what you are doing. if you can't take that info and fit it into your no-till then you are correct "you are no expert' my guess is nobody is gonna answer you with your attitude. GL

 

[SCJedi]

1/3 peat or coco, no additives
1/3 humate like good compost mixed w/ EWC
1/3 aeration pumice, Growstones, perlite, etc

I use this GS-1 as my aeration. If you are already going to the grow store they sell it in 1.5 cubic foot bags for about $25.

You can use lava in a pinch.

 

[hillbill]

My aeration runs closer to 40% to 50% with white LEDs and COBs since they don't heat the soil mix and leaves near as much as hps or cmh did. Ran 30% to 35% then. I use SPM as a base. Been working at that level for several years.

I use perlite and NAPA 8822 and recycled used mix is always over 50% of new mix. Pretty gravelly by harvest.

 

[outliergenetix]

My aeration runs closer to 40% to 50% with white LEDs and COBs since they don't heat the soil mix and leaves near as much as hps or cmh did. Ran 30% to 35% then. I use SPM as a base. Been working at that level for several years.

I use perlite and NAPA 8822 and recycled used mix is always over 50% of new mix. Pretty gravelly by harvest.

he shouldn't use perlite in a true no-till tho as it will float to the top eventually. that's what i found annoying with perlite specifically. there are other smaller issues imo, but the floating to the top is the main one, i also don't like allot of runnoff and with that fabric pot it just isnt needed greatly imo. admittedly if you are after fast turn around and max yeild aeration the more the merryier is true, but if he is organic no-till those probably are not the priority. and thansk for the like back there lol

 

[Groat21]

and i speciffically said how to do it if that is what you are doing. if you can't take that info and fit it into your no-till then you are correct "you are no expert' my guess is nobody is gonna answer you with your attitude. GL

My attitude? Lol you didn’t answer my question... didnt mean anything by it bud, just wanted an answer more on topic.

BTW you still didn’t answer it lol, maybe one too many J’s?

 

[Groat21]

1/3 peat or coco, no additives
1/3 humate like good compost mixed w/ EWC
1/3 aeration pumice, Growstones, perlite, etc

I use this GS-1 as my aeration. If you are already going to the grow store they sell it in 1.5 cubic foot bags for about $25.

You can use lava in a pinch.
View attachment 4324717

Thanks! I will look for these. And lava rock, you say? Is it inferior? I ask because you said I can use it “in a pinch”

I’m in Canada and I find it can be hard to find the same products here, so any suggestions are helpful!

 

[SCJedi]

Pumice is a lava stone. The red stuff you'd find at a big box store will be a bit too large and porous. I'd expect it to break down faster. My GS-1 has been used a whole season and it all still perfectly intact

 

[hillbill]

I didn’t say I liked a lot of runoff, just some but my mixes seem very water friendly with such a ratio of well used mix. Small containers and plants in perpetual under LEDs. Variety is why I use perpetual methods and why I like beans. Also, clones do not exist in my world.

 

[Groat21]

I didn’t say I liked a lot of runoff, just some but my mixes seem very water friendly with such a ratio of well used mix. Small containers and plants in perpetual under LEDs. Variety is why I use perpetual methods and why I like beans. Also, clones do not exist in my world.

No clones? Care to touch on why not?

 

[Groat21]

Pumice is a lava stone. The red stuff you'd find at a big box store will be a bit too large and porous. I'd expect it to break down faster. My GS-1 has been used a whole season and it all still perfectly intact

How long should it last? I’ve heard of no-till gardens going on for 10+ years, what would they be using for aeration?

 

[hillbill]

Lava rock in a mix would seem a good alternative to perlite in no till or containers not being moved. NAPA 8822 would be useful either way as it retains nutrients and provides drainage also. Sharp sand and gravel is great except for weight and I usually have small amounts in mixes.

 

[SCJedi]

How long should it last? I’ve heard of no-till gardens going on for 10+ years, what would they be using for aeration?

Certainly not perlite.

 

[outliergenetix]

My attitude? Lol you didn’t answer my question... didnt mean anything by it bud, just wanted an answer more on topic.

BTW you still didn’t answer it lol, maybe one too many J’s?

fair enough, but by attitude i was refering to what seemed to be a dissmisive tone to the effort i put into the post for you. on top oof that you didn't really read it right and insinuated i didnt read yours right. then said "That said, anyone have ideas on what to do for the aeration in my mix?" as if i didn't answer you. i may have over reacted so mb, but i still think you coulda tried a little harder to grasp what i was saying before dismissing it as me not understanding what no-till is or that i din't read you say you are no-till ("...And I’m no expert, but that’s definitely not no-till..."").
anyway it's water under the bridge i was mostly annoyed because i wrote that all out and you didn't really put effort into reading it, if you don;t want to do it that way cool ik it's not traditional however it's an option. plus you other comment about how to apply what i wrote to your no-till also bothered me because again that "And I’m no expert, but that’s definitely not no-till..." comment you made insinuates to me you should have the very basics of ammending no-till down and i shouldn't have to explain cover cropping or top dressing. i usually never get an attitude so i'm sorry for that part.
anyway good luck on your no-till journey, i'm serious. i only want to see ppl succeed

 

[Groat21]

fair enough, but by attitude i was refering to what seemed to be a dissmisive tone to the effort i put into the post for you. on top oof that you didn't really read it right and insinuated i didnt read yours right. then said "That said, anyone have ideas on what to do for the aeration in my mix?" as if i didn't answer you. i may have over reacted so mb, but i still think you coulda tried a little harder to grasp what i was saying before dismissing it as me not understanding what no-till is or that i din't read you say you are no-till ("And I’m no expert, but that’s definitely not no-till...").
anyway it's water under the bridge i was mostly annoyed because i wrote that all out and you didn't really put effort into reading it, if you don;t want to do it that way cool ik it's not traditional however it's an option. plus you other comment about how to apply what i wrote to your no-till also bothered me because again that "im no expert but that isn;t no-till comment" you made insinuates to me you should havve the very basics of ammending no-till down and i shouldn't have to explain cover cropping or top dressing. i usually never get an attitude so i'm sorry for that part.
anyway good luck on your no-till journey, i'm serious. i only want to see ppl succeed

Lol all good. Thanks for the advice, definitely some food for thought.

 

[outliergenetix]

I didn’t say I liked a lot of runoff, just some but my mixes seem very water friendly with such a ratio of well used mix. Small containers and plants in perpetual under LEDs. Variety is why I use perpetual methods and why I like beans. Also, clones do not exist in my world.

i din't mean to imply you like allot of runnoff i just found it harder to water for me without alot of runoff using allot of perlite or something. i have used hydroton tho in my soil prior to the method i use now as i had a shit ton from my hydro days. i would just sift it out before recycling my soil so i could get the desired amount in apot by pot basis but that became cumbersome. the other reason i do what i do is i don't drive and i can get a large quntity of coco free shippin on amazon you can't do that with peat or sphagnum. i arrived at my mix out of necessity and laziness it just happes to wor k great to for me. since i use 100 gallons tubs to compost in and cook my soil etc you can only imagine how hard without driving it would be to get that much medium. everything i get comes in the mail or i make it

 

[SCJedi]

FWIW, I wanted the 30g pots in the pics above to be no till. I was worried because I stacked them off-season and let them sit. They are still giant rootballs from a year ago. When I popped that one out it actually came apart a lot easier than o thought. It's given me the chance to mix in new nutes, add more compost and EWC and re-connect new Blusoak tape.

In my experience a cover crop should really only be used if you intend on cutting it down and tilling it in or covering it with top dressing and mulch. I learned that mites love live clover

 

[outliergenetix]

FWIW, I wanted the 30g pots in the pics above to be no till. I was worried because I stacked them off-season and let them sit. They are still giant rootballs from a year ago. When I popped that one out it actually came apart a lot easier than o thought. It's given me the chance to mix in new nutes, add more compost and EWC and re-connect new Blusoak tape.

In my experience a cover crop should really only be used if you intend on cutting it down and tilling it in or covering it with top dressing and mulch. I learned that mites love live clover

that is exactly what i mean by cover cropping as an ammendment. you def need to cut it down unless it is a legume also rememebr that it will steal N from the soil till it decompioses fully. even after you cut it. you can also simply top dress over it either with actual ammendments or smother it with hay to kill it and decompose it. tho if you use legumes as a cover crop there will be avail N on the nodules as i think was discussed in this thread not to far back. not sure if it was this thread tho. but some cover crops are N fixing because of the stored nutrients in root nodules

 

[Groat21]

Certainly not perlite.
View attachment 4324728 View attachment 4324729

Not sure what this means... sorry! Has the perlite gone bad or something?

What is the lifespan of perlite vs pumice or lava rock?