Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread

ShLUbY

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
GreenSanta said:
Reminds me I should use it as mulch in my pots... why didn't u grab any! Wiki it up its the only plants that reproduces via spores, it's one of the most ancient plant on earth.
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it's the only living GENUS in Equisetaseae that reproduces via spores. there are many plants in Bryophyta phylum that reproduce with spores, like mosses. and yes they are of the first evolutions of plants on earth! cool shit. hard to believe something that old is still growing today. touche evolution.

dude, use them as mulch???... GENIUS! i'm gonna get a bunch next time i go.
 
B

BigDoobie

Member
ShLUbY said:
that is exactly what it is. was just curious because they were talking about the silica in it. but im gonna get some glacial rock dust and i'm pretty sure that's gonna cover the silica along with the other 3 kinds of dust i have lol. i'll mulch dandelion too. come to think of it, i bet any kind of arugula or leaf lettuce would be a good silica source... all of the heirloom stuff that i grow oozes that milky white juice when i tear a leaf off of it just like the dandelion does. i love when the mind pieces things like that together mid post haha.
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Hey Shluby. Got a few questions for you. How much rock dust did you add? Also, have you used a silica product before? I'm wondering if you were able to get the same results using rock dusts without using any silica product.
 
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BigDoobie

Member
Can I get results just like (quality/quantity) the best soil mixes, grows, watering regime or whatever you have with using the recipe below with water only and top dressed as needed?

1/3 peat 1/3 compost 1/3 aeration
biochar
rock dusts
oyster shell flour
neem+karanja
kelp
crab
 
ShLUbY

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
BigDoobie said:
Hey Shluby. Got a few questions for you. How much rock dust did you add? Also, have you used a silica product before? I'm wondering if you were able to get the same results using rock dusts without using any silica product.
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Hey BD, in a couple of my mixes at first i was going as high as 4 cups per cuft rock dusts. lately i have been leaning towards 2 cuft of rock dust. can always amend more if needed. rock dusts will contain silica, especially glacial dusts because they tend to have a good mix of rocks (igneous, sedimentary, and metamorphic!).

i have not added a silica product before on its own. I know that pumice and scoria are silicates and they have a very low solubility of silica, but has some nonetheless. I'm going to start using the horsetail as a mulch instead of the barley straw... horsetail contains a good amount of silica because it grows in sandy areas and takes in the silica that dissolves from the sand very slowly. Also greens can contain silica, like dandelion, and can be dried or used fresh to brew a tea.

currently, I'm probably not the best one to ask, because i'm new to the whole ROLS thing, and i have no results to show yet, but i will soon! I think i'm going to pick up some agsil (potassium silicate) and see if i notice any results in a side by side with a control. i have a lot of challenges on my list to do lol, just for my own experience.
 
ShLUbY

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
BigDoobie said:
Can I get results just like (quality/quantity) the best soil mixes, grows, watering regime or whatever you have with using the recipe below with water only and top dressed as needed?

1/3 peat 1/3 compost 1/3 aeration
biochar
rock dusts
oyster shell flour
neem+karanja
kelp
crab
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just make sure your biochar is charged properly or it will rob the nutrients from your soil.

that mix above is a winner for a lot of people. other things to consider to the mix are gypsum and fishbone meal.
 
B

BigDoobie

Member
ShLUbY said:
just make sure your biochar is charged properly or it will rob the nutrients from your soil.

that mix above is a winner for a lot of people. other things to consider to the mix are gypsum and fishbone meal.
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Thanks. I've skipped the fishbone meal but I do have gypsum in my initial mix, just not going to use it anymore because of the high mg, so I didnt list it. I've ditched the whole watering regimen no till people have been using also. I did it for awhile and was not really pleased with all the products I had. No aloe, tm7 or ful power anymore, didnt see much use for them. I'm going to choose between coconut or malted barley sst and try to find a substitute for silica.
 
ShLUbY

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
BigDoobie said:
Thanks. I've skipped the fishbone meal but I do have gypsum in my initial mix, just not going to use it anymore because of the high mg, so I didnt list it. I've ditched the whole watering regimen no till people have been using also. I did it for awhile and was not really pleased with all the products I had. No aloe, tm7 or ful power anymore, didnt see much use for them. I'm going to choose between coconut or malted barley sst and try to find a substitute for silica.
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cool man. im going to do some water only side by sides down the line, i'll do 4 plants under 1 light, 2 water only, 2 with all the tricks, and like to see the diff.

I agree about the ful power, if you have good humus you shouldn't need this product. i don't have the best humus atm, so i'm gonna be using it once every couple of weeks with my compost teas.
 
B

BigDoobie

Member
ShLUbY said:
Hey BD, in a couple of my mixes at first i was going as high as 4 cups per cuft rock dusts. lately i have been leaning towards 2 cuft of rock dust. can always amend more if needed. rock dusts will contain silica, especially glacial dusts because they tend to have a good mix of rocks (igneous, sedimentary, and metamorphic!).

i have not added a silica product before on its own. I know that pumice and scoria are silicates and they have a very low solubility of silica, but has some nonetheless. I'm going to start using the horsetail as a mulch instead of the barley straw... horsetail contains a good amount of silica because it grows in sandy areas and takes in the silica that dissolves from the sand very slowly. Also greens can contain silica, like dandelion, and can be dried or used fresh to brew a tea.

currently, I'm probably not the best one to ask, because i'm new to the whole ROLS thing, and i have no results to show yet, but i will soon! I think i'm going to pick up some agsil (potassium silicate) and see if i notice any results in a side by side with a control. i have a lot of challenges on my list to do lol, just for my own experience.
Click to expand...
I've got rock dusts @2 cups per cubic feet and when I stopped using agsil for a few weeks, the new growth on my veg plants were flimsier. Was worried that adding too much would be a bad thing. I just started ROLS and no-till also. What kind of areas can you find horsetail fern? I'm thinking of collecting some and using it for worm food,compost and mulch. That would probably create a compost with all the silica you'd need since you really dont need much.

ShLUbY said:
cool man. im going to do some water only side by sides down the line, i'll do 4 plants under 1 light, 2 water only, 2 with all the tricks, and like to see the diff.

I agree about the ful power, if you have good humus you shouldn't need this product. i don't have the best humus atm, so i'm gonna be using it once every couple of weeks with my compost teas.
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That would be a good idea for a side by side. My guess is the coconut, sst, and agsil would be the game changers over water only. I'm wondering how much of a difference the coconut and sst makes over good soil. I haven't gone without it yet.
 
ShLUbY

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
BigDoobie said:
I've got rock dusts @2 cups per cubic feet and when I stopped using agsil for a few weeks, the new growth on my veg plants were flimsier. Was worried that adding too much would be a bad thing. I just started ROLS and no-till also. What kind of areas can you find horsetail fern? I'm thinking of collecting some and using it for worm food,compost and mulch. That would probably create a compost with all the silica you'd need since you really dont need much.


That would be a good idea for a side by side. My guess is the coconut, sst, and agsil would be the game changers over water only. I'm wondering how much of a difference the coconut and sst makes over good soil. I haven't gone without it yet.
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right on. i'll let you know if i experience any flimsy stems at first with the no-tills.

you can find horsetail in sandy areas by water. so for my area of MI, i find it by lake huron shores in the the transition point between the beach and the forest. and also in riverbottom alluvial flood plains. you'll find areas of sand sorted by water, and the horsetail grows like crazy in those soils. again, seems to be in the transition between floodplain and forest. i think with some worms in the no-tills, the horsetail will be a great mulch!

I found a couple worms by my compost pile today and threw them in the no-till pots. i don't know if they'll stay, but they looked like they were slurping stuff off the soil particles. i'm gonna start trimming my living mulch soon, and i think they'll like that!
 
futant

futant

Well-Known Member
ShLUbY said:
... but i need to CURE the PM,....
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excuse my ignorance but I was under the impression PM was a systemic infection all the way down to the DNA level.
I was under the impression the only way to CURE PM was to treat with bacteria that also infects systemically down to the DNA level (SERENADE for example); then shortly after, take a fresh growth only cutting from post treatment and do a CLOROX (apologies I am saying this on this thread guys) dip of the entire cutting (as per tissue culture methodology) THEN transplant the cutting and attempt to save it from all the stress in quarrentine.
 
Vnsmkr

Vnsmkr

Well-Known Member
futant said:
excuse my ignorance but I was under the impression PM was a systemic infection all the way down to the DNA level.
I was under the impression the only way to CURE PM was to treat with bacteria that also infects systemically down to the DNA level (SERENADE for example); then shortly after, take a fresh growth only cutting from post treatment and do a CLOROX (apologies I am saying this on this thread guys) dip of the entire cutting (as per tissue culture methodology) THEN transplant the cutting and attempt to save it from all the stress in quarrentine.
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Futant I am under the same umbrella. Am I wrong?
 
hyroot

hyroot

Well-Known Member
Pm can be both. Systemic (std) pm seems to start at the base of the leaf closest to the buds. Environmentally caused pm is more blotchy and on any leaf. That is caused by fluctuations in humidity and poor airflow.

Any plant that has systemic pm is usually due to poor genetic selection and poor breeding. . Can be cured by spraying and watering with a botanical tea with plant material that is resistant to pm. That resistant plant material will be carrying that said bacteria.
 
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AllDayToker

AllDayToker

Well-Known Member
I'm looking to throw a small batch of veg soil until I have my new soil sit for a while and build up the microbe colony.

Can someone help me with something simple with what I have on hand?

I have vermiculite, peat moss, vermicompost, worm castings, bone meal, a little alfalfa meal, kelp meal, and dolomite lime. I have some left over soil I can use as filler too.

Just trying to fill five 1 gallon pots for some clones.
 
ShLUbY

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
futant said:
excuse my ignorance but I was under the impression PM was a systemic infection all the way down to the DNA level.
I was under the impression the only way to CURE PM was to treat with bacteria that also infects systemically down to the DNA level (SERENADE for example); then shortly after, take a fresh growth only cutting from post treatment and do a CLOROX (apologies I am saying this on this thread guys) dip of the entire cutting (as per tissue culture methodology) THEN transplant the cutting and attempt to save it from all the stress in quarrentine.
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yes you are correct PM is/can be systemic. The way i am fighting the PM systemically is trying to activate the plant into producing chitinase enzymes which should attack the fungal walls of the fungi inside the plant. The bicarbonate and neem mixture has been working FANTASTIC at preventing conidiophores from forming on the leaves. I'm also gonna get a germicidal bulb that produces ozone. i feel if you prevent new infections from starting by airborne spores, the plant will eventually work to destroy the fungus. I could be wrong about that.

PM was so bad outside this year i think it drifted in on my 9lb hammer and dr. who from me going outside, working on the garden and bringing it in on my clothes or something, or just the air draft even. i'm not really sure.

i have not been having fluctuations of humidity, and i have changed my whole air flow situation and there's no way its poor right now lol. but with that being said, my breakouts have been near zero, and when i see one spot, i just treat everything. so there is little chance they are spreading any spores currently. i've been watching closely every day :)

plants are looking fantastic and what i'm doing is working... hopefully i won't have to keep doing it for a lot longer....

thanks for the info guys @hyroot @futant
 
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