Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread

[Forte]

I noticed that when I moved from bagged soil with synthetic nutes to rols and notill that they looked like plants that had grown outdoors. They smell as early as 3 or 4 weeks into veg (this still blows mind). One thing that my girl and I also noticed is that with my organic bud it's hard for us to build up a tolerance to it. After a month of heavy smoking daily of the same strain, we could still smoke a chillum and get very medicated. It also seems to last longer, the high I mean.

This. I bought my clones two weeks ago and they already smell a bit. Never experienced that with synthetic nutes. When I smoke hydro weed I build up a tolerance real fast, but when smoking organically grown weed, I don't. Another thing that I also noticed was that hydro weed loses it smell much faster than organically grown weed.

 

[a senile fungus]

My last couple grows have been Gorilla Glue #4. I gave my neighbor a cut of it and he's been growing it too. He uses synthetics, I use organics. My glue is consistently stinkier and more potent. Even he remarked when I was trimming it, he said, "wtf new stinky ass strain is this now?!" when it was the same glue that we'd both been running for over a year. When I trim mine it reeks of skunk and chem and it assaults the sinuses and eyes. His just smells like strong glue smell. Mine literally irritates my eyes and clears my sinuses.

My smoke seems thicker, but smoother. His smoke is thinner and harsher. My buds are greasier and smellier, and cure into a sponge consistency. They can be squeezed and return to their original shape. His buds dry until brittle, and break apart when squeezed.

I think its a combo of growing and curing. But organics really brings out the full terpene and essential oil profile IMO. I'd love to lab test to verify my hypothesis.

 

[Midwest Weedist]

I had a thought today at work. Someone was throwing away some palm leaves (Palm Sunday I guess) and I snagged them. My thought was that they would make a good mulch until my cover crop fully sprouts. I was going to take the scissors to them and get them cut up fairly small then add to my planters.

Anyone have any thoughts on this or would advise against it?

 

[Midwest Weedist]

Update on my magnesium deficent ladies. They've bounced back to probably 90% full health, if I had to quantify it.


I'm pretty sure I'm seeing the same deficiency in my Yunnan too as it's just now reaching the age that my other ladies showed their deficiency. Oddly enough it developed to the point that it has in almost just the last 24 - 36 hours. I noticed it about 3 days ago because its first and second set of true leaves died off exactly like my other ladies did, so I gave it a light epsom salt and aloe foliar. I was up potting her into a ~10 - 15 gallon planter when I noticed the deficiency so I'm not surprised that it has gotten worst even after I gave her the foliar; transplant shock, yeah? My question though is, does this look like a magnesium deficiency to the more experienced growers? I assume it is because it's, to a t, acting exactly like my other ladies did. I want to ask before I give her a full epsom salt watering.

 

[Mohican]

Took a picture of my ROLS pot and saw a surprise:






Cheers,
Mo

 

[Midwest Weedist]

I like volcanic rock over rice hulls for no-tills, they never break down.
Can you get any rotten wood chunks in there? really conditions the soil well, and the plants freakin love it, and you don't need to water as often.
I can go a whole extra 12-24 hrs before watering in the soil I have, for the container I know what is typical watering schedule is for an established flowering plant, so I can tell the difference, the wood acts like mini sponges, without retaining too much water, and then it slowly leaches the water bac into the soil, kinda making the soil more "humid", the difference is visible for the roots. The entire smart pot is a solid rootball and that is a 12 or 15 gallon smartpot, with plants no larger than three feet.
Some serious roots going on there...
Another thing I like, is cutting up small 1-2 inch strips of the coco-wool, like the stuff they line planters with, it holds moisture really well and keeps little pockets of air without getting too dry.
Ok, so maybe I go a lil overboard with my aeration... but damnit, roots are the key behind it all.
The "engine and drivetrain" of the cannabis plant, the flowers are simply the body of the car... what everyone looks at...

I finally got warm enough weather to go find some rotting wood chunks! I have a huge concern with what creatures I could be introducing into my indoor garden though. Just from 5 minutes of breaking down the chunks by hand I've found grubs, larvae, millipedes centipedes, etc. I do have neem/karanja meal but would that do me any good if I added this wood to my soil?
It looks much drier and less decomposed in this picture.

 

[Mohican]

You can put it in a pot and cook it in a BBQ. A couple of hours at 300 should kill any bad stuff. Then just introduce some vermicompost or other beneficial microbes.

 

[Mad Hamish]

I finally got warm enough weather to go find some rotting wood chunks! I have a huge concern with what creatures I could be introducing into my indoor garden though. Just from 5 minutes of breaking down the chunks by hand I've found grubs, larvae, millipedes centipedes, etc. I do have neem/karanja meal but would that do me any good if I added this wood to my soil?
It looks much drier and less decomposed in this picture.
View attachment 3384565

http://www.organicgardening.com/learn-and-grow/soil-solarization use this principle but just use bags

 

[Midwest Weedist]

http://www.organicgardening.com/learn-and-grow/soil-solarization use this principle but just use bags

Couldn't I just set my oven to 150 and accomplish the same thing?

 

[Mad Hamish]

Couldn't I just set my oven to 150 and accomplish the same thing?

I think so, just keep it covered and add teeeeny bits of moisture if it gets too dry. I think the big thing is sufficient time at those temps that is all really.

 

[Mad Hamish]

Update on my magnesium deficent ladies. They've bounced back to probably 90% full health, if I had to quantify it.
View attachment 3384375

I'm pretty sure I'm seeing the same deficiency in my Yunnan too as it's just now reaching the age that my other ladies showed their deficiency. Oddly enough it developed to the point that it has in almost just the last 24 - 36 hours. I noticed it about 3 days ago because its first and second set of true leaves died off exactly like my other ladies did, so I gave it a light epsom salt and aloe foliar. I was up potting her into a ~10 - 15 gallon planter when I noticed the deficiency so I'm not surprised that it has gotten worst even after I gave her the foliar; transplant shock, yeah? My question though is, does this look like a magnesium deficiency to the more experienced growers? I assume it is because it's, to a t, acting exactly like my other ladies did. I want to ask before I give her a full epsom salt watering.
View attachment 3384382 View attachment 3384386 View attachment 3384390

Yes, I think it is the same deficiency. If I had to wager a guess some of your compost in the soil is still breaking down, or coco is particularly notoriois for this, composting IN the soil mix. Not the end of the world but it does lock up some Mg and also some Nitrogen. I had a low Mg bump on my third run with my first ROLS mix, came right soon enough though. I have been VERY careful and picky with my compost though. No way I can trust a bagged one eh. Way I see it, it all boils down to quality compost. Anyhow, early Mg def looks exactly like very slight N def. Look for leaf veins being prominent, that is Mg def starting. Easy to miss, can even look like great health.

 

[Midwest Weedist]

Yes, I think it is the same deficiency. If I had to wager a guess some of your compost in the soil is still breaking down, or coco is particularly notoriois for this, composting IN the soil mix. Not the end of the world but it does lock up some Mg and also some Nitrogen. I had a low Mg bump on my third run with my first ROLS mix, came right soon enough though. I have been VERY careful and picky with my compost though. No way I can trust a bagged one eh. Way I see it, it all boils down to quality compost.

It dawned on me this morning what specifically my issue with dolomite lime is, I didn't pulverize it like I did my last batch of soil. So it's in my soil, just not bio-available. I keep giving her aloe and epsom salt foliars. My vermicompost from buildasoil will be here soon and all my ladies will get a top dress off it. Probably doesn't help that I use Coco too.
I'm hoping the dolomite starts breaking down faster. Would a lactobacillus serum watering be helpful?

 

[Mad Hamish]

It dawned on me this morning what specifically my issue with dolomite lime is, I didn't pulverize it like I did my last batch of soil. So it's in my soil, just not bio-available. I keep giving her aloe and epsom salt foliars. My vermicompost from buildasoil will be here soon and all my ladies will get a top dress off it. Probably doesn't help that I use Coco too.
I'm hoping the dolomite starts breaking down faster. Would a lactobacillus serum watering be helpful?

Nature's work horse, can't ever hurt!

 

[Midwest Weedist]

Nature's work horse, can't ever hurt!

I'll start a culture then!

 

[greasemonkeymann]

I finally got warm enough weather to go find some rotting wood chunks! I have a huge concern with what creatures I could be introducing into my indoor garden though. Just from 5 minutes of breaking down the chunks by hand I've found grubs, larvae, millipedes centipedes, etc. I do have neem/karanja meal but would that do me any good if I added this wood to my soil?
It looks much drier and less decomposed in this picture.
View attachment 3384565

I see your concern, and don't take my experience as the gospel truth... but I didn't do a damn thing for the wood I used, just threw it in a bucket full of some dandelion/comfrey fermented tea, and then added to my soil, I did "age" it a lil by allowing it to sit in the soil for like 45 days or so.
Honestly when you think about it, anything that is eating rotting wood isn't gonna hurt your plants.
Course, one thing to consider is the soil mix I use pretty much keeps all the bugs down, almost miraculously.
To be sure i'd do what others have said, and bake em for a bit, just saying that I didn't.

 

[Midwest Weedist]

I see your concern, and don't take my experience as the gospel truth... but I didn't do a damn thing for the wood I used, just threw it in a bucket full of some dandelion/comfrey fermented tea, and then added to my soil, I did "age" it a lil by allowing it to sit in the soil for like 45 days or so.
Honestly when you think about it, anything that is eating rotting wood isn't gonna hurt your plants.
Course, one thing to consider is the soil mix I use pretty much keeps all the bugs down, almost miraculously.
To be sure i'd do what others have said, and bake em for a bit, just saying that I didn't.

I really considered just tossing it in with my soil, but that video of that giant millipede (was it a centipede?) eating that worm posted a few pages back really put me off to that idea lol. I'd probably be fine, but for peace of mine I'm going to bake it for a few hours at 150°f

 

[greasemonkeymann]

I really considered just tossing it in with my soil, but that video of that giant millipede (was it a centipede?) eating that worm posted a few pages back really put me off to that idea lol. I'd probably be fine, but for peace of mine I'm going to bake it for a few hours at 150°f

I hear ya, I think that was a centipede.
My main thing for not sterilizing was because I wanted the various BIMs that were in there..

 

[Midwest Weedist]

Another update on the magnesium deficent ladies. They've all bounced back except the Yunnan. Dunno what her problem is. I gave them all an sst last night. I'll probably give them all another aloe foliar today as well.

 

[Pattahabi]

Someone was asking about liming on another site. Thought I'd post this up from Coot.

Okay – the first goals of wanting Calcium & Magnesium are good we’ll stipulate. Whether or not you need a mineral amendment to achieve that will be put aside.

Dolomite Lime is used in ‘the real world’ when a complete soil analysis has been done and now you have a complete overview of the element levels, CeC, etc. and it’s been established that lower levels exist for the long term on the Magnesium percentage. Even then, DL is applied maybe once every 4 or 5 years. The Magnesium in DL arrives as Magnesium Carbonate (MgCO3) but it’s a bit more complicated than that.

The reason that it is ‘slow acting’ is the molecular structure and if you were to hit even WikiPedia and looked at the molecular formula you can easily understand why this material is as slow acting as it is.

If in fact you need a Magnesium jolt then you’d be far better off using a mined mineral compound like Epsom Salts (Magnesium Sulfate) or Sul-Po-Mag (Sulphur, Potassium & Magnesium). The Magnesium in Epsom Salts is in its elemental form like Sul-Po-Mag.

The main straight liming agents, Limestone, Calcite (aka Agricultural Lime), Oyster shell powder and Crab meal are sources for Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3). All are pure Calcium Carbonate with the exception of Limestone which can have a Mg level between 2 – 3% depending on the specific mine, country of origin, etc.

When looking at the numbers on a Calcium Carbonate source you have to multiply the CaCO3 percentage by 0.375% and now you will have the elemental Calcium (Ca++) numbers.

Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) is the preferred ‘liming’ agent in the PNW due to the acidic soils we deal with (the west side). That has to do with the adulteration of the clay platelets which no longer carry a pure negative charge (-) on the edges which bind along its edge with the center of adjacent clay particles and now you have clay compaction. All the Rototilling isn’t going to change that – ever.

So back to Dolomite Lime and why it’s used in commercial potting soils – certainly not used by professional nurseries other than for specific growing schedules like 3 – 5 years in containers. Even then, DL is part of a ‘liming mix’ that will include Gypsum (Calcium & Sulphur), Limestone or one of the shells meals. Bottom line is the DL is the least expensive because Calcium Carbonate is widely used in animal & human supplements – next time you’re in a store selling vitamins and supplements look at the label on the Calcium products – Calcium Carbonate.

Same for livestock and poultry. Calcium is a necessary part of their feed and DL isn’t part of that. DL has several industrial, manufacturing, etc. uses – it’s not the big deal in agriculture or horticulture like it is in the cannabis hobby gardening paradigm.

All of this assumes of course that the potting soil that you make is deficient in Calcium or Magnesium. It would be highly unlikely that given the compost and EWC you produce that you need additional Magnesium or Calcium. EWC are covered with a slime which is Calcium Carbonate from the worm’s digestive tract.

Calcium is not this elusive element that Goober wants you to believe it is

CC

 

[Midwest Weedist]

Someone was asking about liming on another site. Thought I'd post this up from Coot.

Okay – the first goals of wanting Calcium & Magnesium are good we’ll stipulate. Whether or not you need a mineral amendment to achieve that will be put aside.

Dolomite Lime is used in ‘the real world’ when a complete soil analysis has been done and now you have a complete overview of the element levels, CeC, etc. and it’s been established that lower levels exist for the long term on the Magnesium percentage. Even then, DL is applied maybe once every 4 or 5 years. The Magnesium in DL arrives as Magnesium Carbonate (MgCO3) but it’s a bit more complicated than that.

The reason that it is ‘slow acting’ is the molecular structure and if you were to hit even WikiPedia and looked at the molecular formula you can easily understand why this material is as slow acting as it is.

If in fact you need a Magnesium jolt then you’d be far better off using a mined mineral compound like Epsom Salts (Magnesium Sulfate) or Sul-Po-Mag (Sulphur, Potassium & Magnesium). The Magnesium in Epsom Salts is in its elemental form like Sul-Po-Mag.

The main straight liming agents, Limestone, Calcite (aka Agricultural Lime), Oyster shell powder and Crab meal are sources for Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3). All are pure Calcium Carbonate with the exception of Limestone which can have a Mg level between 2 – 3% depending on the specific mine, country of origin, etc.

When looking at the numbers on a Calcium Carbonate source you have to multiply the CaCO3 percentage by 0.375% and now you will have the elemental Calcium (Ca++) numbers.

Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) is the preferred ‘liming’ agent in the PNW due to the acidic soils we deal with (the west side). That has to do with the adulteration of the clay platelets which no longer carry a pure negative charge (-) on the edges which bind along its edge with the center of adjacent clay particles and now you have clay compaction. All the Rototilling isn’t going to change that – ever.

So back to Dolomite Lime and why it’s used in commercial potting soils – certainly not used by professional nurseries other than for specific growing schedules like 3 – 5 years in containers. Even then, DL is part of a ‘liming mix’ that will include Gypsum (Calcium & Sulphur), Limestone or one of the shells meals. Bottom line is the DL is the least expensive because Calcium Carbonate is widely used in animal & human supplements – next time you’re in a store selling vitamins and supplements look at the label on the Calcium products – Calcium Carbonate.

Same for livestock and poultry. Calcium is a necessary part of their feed and DL isn’t part of that. DL has several industrial, manufacturing, etc. uses – it’s not the big deal in agriculture or horticulture like it is in the cannabis hobby gardening paradigm.

All of this assumes of course that the potting soil that you make is deficient in Calcium or Magnesium. It would be highly unlikely that given the compost and EWC you produce that you need additional Magnesium or Calcium. EWC are covered with a slime which is Calcium Carbonate from the worm’s digestive tract.

Calcium is not this elusive element that Goober wants you to believe it is

CC

I remember reading this on icmag a few days ago when I was browsing their ROLS thread. Coot is a pretty smart dude.