Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread

[greasemonkeymann]

nah

i think those other are night crawlers. They work good too from what I've heard. Mine came from the hydro shop locally. I think they got it from Uncle Jims. Its the same packaging. It was $6 cheaper to get them locally because of shipping. I paid $24 for a 1000. It would of been $30 from Uncle Jims. I think the night crawlers hang out towards the bottom of the bin and the red wigglers are closer to the surface. 6 -12 inches of vc isn't that deep compared to those $5000 bins

, def not nightcrawlers, they look EXACTLY the same as the regular redworms, only much bigger, not brown or dark colored like a nightcrawler, besides, my old-man is a fisherman, and I've been around my share of worms in my life. They are for sure redworms, but significantly larger, and evidently, hungrier.
The research I've done implies that the earthworms don't compose food that great, they are more for aeration in the soil, they WILL compost, but not at the rate of the redworms.
now that I think about it, i'd say the reg redworms are about a third of the size of the bigger ones

 

[smokey the cat]

why dont you just add the pumice instead of crushing it, it will degrade over time and you get more airation.

Pumice doesn't degrade, it's a rock. And yeah, this is my aeration amendment.

http://www.kisorganics.com/products/shop/product-category/bulk-soil-amendments/page/2

I wish - I'm on an island in the South Pacific! Sending rock around the globe isn't something I'm keen to do. I'd rather campaign a local supplier to start carrying it.
There is a quarry somewhere at the other end of the country which has supplied a few people with rock dust which tests highly paramagnetic, but I might not get there for months, hence the question on pumice.


I'll trying crushing a few handfuls of pumice today for some testing in a plant or two. It'll be stuff that was erupted in the last 3000 years or so. My reading says while volcanic it is ejected earlier in an eruption and is basically bubbled rock which tends to come from higher in the magma column than commonly used rock dusts like basalt and granite - might contain less mineral but have higher silica content. Probably alkali.

Can't hurt, just wondering if anyone here had tried or heard of it.

Careful grinding up pumice or lava rock. The dust will become concrete when it gets wet. I tried this once and it even smelled like concrete! I had to transplant it because the water would just sit on top of the soil and never drain.

Saw you begin the scoria attempt back on page 100 Mohican. thanks for the warning - definitely something that needs a careful trial with limited risk! Did you top dress or try and introduce the dust to a cooking soil?

 

[Mohican]

Pumice does break down to smaller particles though, it is very soft.

I also added ash from some burned canna plants. I think the lava plus the ash made concrete.

I use greensand and azomite that I get at the local farm supply store. I also bake and grind eggshells.

Composting fast-growing weeds is also a good way to add some minerals to your soil. The weeds use the minerals to make their cellwalls sturdy so they can grow quickly and stay sturdy. I now compost all of my weeds especially dandelions for the silica.

There is also a product called lava sand that is said to be very beneficial for plants.

Do you have any local forests where you can dig up some native topsoil? It can be very beneficial with microbes and minerals.

 

[hyroot]

nah

, def not nightcrawlers, they look EXACTLY the same as the regular redworms, only much bigger, not brown or dark colored like a nightcrawler, besides, my old-man is a fisherman, and I've been around my share of worms in my life. They are for sure redworms, but significantly larger, and evidently, hungrier.
The research I've done implies that the earthworms don't compose food that great, they are more for aeration in the soil, they WILL compost, but not at the rate of the redworms.
now that I think about it, i'd say the reg redworms are about a third of the size of the bigger ones

european night crawlers are red too. and larger than wigglers

 

[hyroot]

Pumice doesn't degrade, it's a rock. And yeah, this is my aeration amendment.



I wish - I'm on an island in the South Pacific! Sending rock around the globe isn't something I'm keen to do. I'd rather campaign a local supplier to start carrying it.
There is a quarry somewhere at the other end of the country which has supplied a few people with rock dust which tests highly paramagnetic, but I might not get there for months, hence the question on pumice.


I'll trying crushing a few handfuls of pumice today for some testing in a plant or two. It'll be stuff that was erupted in the last 3000 years or so. My reading says while volcanic it is ejected earlier in an eruption and is basically bubbled rock which tends to come from higher in the magma column than commonly used rock dusts like basalt and granite - might contain less mineral but have higher silica content. Probably alkali.

Can't hurt, just wondering if anyone here had tried or heard of it.



Saw you begin the scoria attempt back on page 100 Mohican. thanks for the warning - definitely something that needs a careful trial with limited risk! Did you top dress or try and introduce the dust to a cooking soil?

volcanic rock dust ( bentonite) is every where. If you are on an island. You should be able to find it in nature.

 

[smokey the cat]

Nice thinking guys - though digging up soil around these parts is frowned upon. It's either farmland or protected conservation estate. I figure if I keep the eyes open I will stumble upon a source of some rock dust at some point, and one decent find should last me for life.

Got diverse compost with heaps of eggshell, comfrey rooting in the garden, fresh brown seaweed drying outside and now a little powdered pumice, lol.

Added a 30ml tablespoon to a 4litre (1gallon) container of cooking soil - pretty gluggy shit as I used a bit of water to keep the dust down. But there are worms in there to help get er mixed and I'll give it another good rotatation before planting in it. Planning on dissecting rootball after flowering so will see how clumpy it stayed.

 

[cannakis]

The clover will die out (and is currently doing so) when the canopy becomes too tight and not enough light gets down there. I let it die on the top, my philosophy is you don't want to disturb the soil by tilling.

And imo, yes, you absolutely need some kind of mulch on the top of your soil. This can be dead canna leaves, sticks, straw, etc. You do not want the top few inches of soil drying out.

P-

Why would you not want it to dryout? In my experience I find it better To dry out the soil... Too much water logged damage.

And you know actually back in the day Tilling the ground around crops was and is very beneficial! And actually is supposed to be done in dry weather because it causes a fermentation process and brings dew up from the ground. The only crop I have read that was not beneficial to hoe around regularly was corn which only needs to be hoed twice in It's lifecycle. And these are the old timers from hundreds of years ago. The Real masters of husbandry.

 

[cannakis]

Question thread -

I have yet to find a source for rock dust. The local quarries are no help, and no garden places have it in my country.


Thinking about taking my huge mortar & pestle and powdering some pumice. It's a volcanic rock with air holes and it's pretty soft - so I'll just powderise it. Don't have a huge grow, so should be able to handle the amounts I'll need.

Does this seem like a solution to you?

I saw you replied to what I said, but couldn't find it.

But just because it's a Rock does Not mean it will not degrade. Chelation breaks down the minerals into nutrients the plants can consume, and eventually over time it will degrade. But if you are saying you are using it for aeration then why even crush it.? Just get some gypsum and lime.

 

[Pattahabi]

Why would you not want it to dryout? In my experience I find it better To dry out the soil... Too much water logged damage.

And you know actually back in the day Tilling the ground around crops was and is very beneficial! And actually is supposed to be done in dry weather because it causes a fermentation process and brings dew up from the ground. The only crop I have read that was not beneficial to hoe around regularly was corn which only needs to be hoed twice in It's lifecycle. And these are the old timers from hundreds of years ago. The Real masters of husbandry.

Cannakis, some of the experts can explain it better then I can. I'd start by finding some reading on the Soil Food Web. Teaming with Microbes has some great info on this. I'd read One Straw Revolution, and I'd start reading the Recycled Organic Living Soil thread. There is also a post of books/links in the organic section somewhere.

In a nut shell, It's the microbes that do the real work, dry soil = dead microbes. Tilling is not good for soil structure, the soil food web, it helps pioneer plants grow (weeds), aids in erosion, and has a myriad of negative effects.

P-

 

[smokey the cat]

Just get some gypsum and lime.

Gypsum is calcium sulphate and garden lime is calcium carbonate - these are liming agents and have a different function to granite or basalt rock dust in soil.

Now my poor old brain is struggling to remember exactly why rock dust is so useful in an organic paradigm, but iirc it's to do with a) allowing much greater diversity of available micro nutrients, and b)providing surface area for fungi and bacteria.

http://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglibrary/010173.hensel.pdf - Bread from Stones is the one resource I remember on this, though I'm not sure how well regarded it is. Seems to be linked to by a ton of "Secrets-they-don't-want-you-to-know" sites which turns me right off. There's so much quackery in the organic field it can be hard to google the wheat from the chaff!


The first 150 pages of the thread on IcyMag is amazing reading and has hundreds of useful resources. Probably worth reading two or three times over a period of months.

 

[Scotch089]

So what do you guys do to combat gnats, yea harmless, but I don't want em around.

 

[smokey the cat]

In a nut shell, It's the microbes that do the real work, dry soil = dead microbes. Tilling is not good for soil structure, the soil food web, it helps pioneer plants grow (weeds), aids in erosion, and has a myriad of negative effects.

P-

Yep.
The thing with tilling or hoeing is that it destroys the fungal network as soon as the spade breaks the soil. Sensitive bloody fungus.

Teaming with microbes posits that tilling took off when farmers found vegetable crops increased after digging the soil and introducing manure. Destroying the fungi leads to bacterially dominant soil, which tends to do well for vegetables and other annual plants, but long term tends to lead to ever decreasing nutrient availability as the fungal networks are never established for long.

Over time working the soil like this also forms a compacted pan at the depth of tillage. This pan interferes with nutrient movement from deep->shallow soil and also water movement.

 

[cannakis]

Cannakis, some of the experts can explain it better then I can. I'd start by finding some reading on the Soil Food Web. Teaming with Microbes has some great info on this. I'd read One Straw Revolution, and I'd start reading the Recycled Organic Living Soil thread. There is also a post of books/links in the organic section somewhere.

In a nut shell, It's the microbes that do the real work, dry soil = dead microbes. Tilling is not good for soil structure, the soil food web, it helps pioneer plants grow (weeds), aids in erosion, and has a myriad of negative effects.

P-

interesting i will have to do some rsearch and studying. thanks for the help.andyeah i mean hemp could be like corn, if it is hoed more than twice in its life thenit greatly diminishes growth, But Most Crops need to be hoed not goes constantly and that is from proven hundreds of years of experience and trials and consensus of everyone back in the day, like when you are supposed to transplant it is actually Better To wait until it is Dry! Well melons you can't do this, but like cabbage Explodes with growth if transplantedlike not love this even though it looks dead at first the heart still lives. i will have to do some experiments soon too after learning. thanks for the help i do understand what you are talking about to a degree.
oh and erosion wouldnt really be happening Inside would it? in optimal conditions.? Oh the main books I read are from Robert Squibb Gardeners Calendar for North and South Carolina and Georgia written in 1787, and the other is Southern Farmer and Market Gardener a useful compilation from the most approved authors written by Francis Simmons Holmes back in 1840.

 

[cannakis]

Yep.
The thing with tilling or hoeing is that it destroys the fungal network as soon as the spade breaks the soil. Sensitive bloody fungus.

Teaming with microbes posits that tilling took off when farmers found vegetable crops increased after digging the soil and introducing manure. Destroying the fungi leads to bacterially dominant soil, which tends to do well for vegetables and other annual plants, but long term tends to lead to ever decreasing nutrient availability as the fungal networks are never established for long.

Over time working the soil like this also forms a compacted pan at the depth of tillage. This pan interferes with nutrient movement from deep->shallow soil and also water movement.

Interesting. I will have to do some research and get back about this.

 

[cannakis]

So what do you guys do to combat gnats, yea harmless, but I don't want em around.

I don't know the Best solution which these will have and I look forward to hear. But I just used apple cider vinegar in a 2liter cutin half with top flipped inside it and just fill the bottom with acv. They love it and will kill them selves in it.

 

[cannakis]

Gypsum is calcium sulphate and garden lime is calcium carbonate - these are liming agents and have a different function to granite or basalt rock dust in soil.

Now my poor old brain is struggling to remember exactly why rock dust is so useful in an organic paradigm, but iirc it's to do with a) allowing much greater diversity of available micro nutrients, and b)providing surface area for fungi and bacteria.

http://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglibrary/010173.hensel.pdf - Bread from Stones is the one resource I remember on this, though I'm not sure how well regarded it is. Seems to be linked to by a ton of "Secrets-they-don't-want-you-to-know" sites which turns me right off. There's so much quackery in the organic field it can be hard to google the wheat from the chaff!


The first 150 pages of the thread on IcyMag is amazing reading and has hundreds of useful resources. Probably worth reading two or three times over a period of months.

Which thread are you talking about?

Hahahaha I LOVE THAT! HAHA and I my self Am a conspiracy "nut" as many would like to say, though I just love llearning the Truth and reading Actual Documents and Letters, and watching Actual footage or hear the words from the wicked myself.! Haha but there Definitely Some Crazy fucking people out there who take it WAY to far! Haha when it goes to a geosites or angelfire Back Away Immediately Most of the time.! Haha there can be some good stuff out there, but A lot of crazy! Haha I called this number because it said oh I maybe killed or arrested by now, hahaha so my dumb ass called and it was this crazy lady rambling about mind reading lasers and the are controlling us with lasers, and don't get me wrong lasers Are used TO A DEGREE like this in special warfare, haha but I was just like well all we can do is just Trust THE LORD and Love HIM and Love Others. Haha and she kept trying to keep me on the phone and I was like I got to go! Alright wear your foil hat!

 

[cannakis]

Gypsum is calcium sulphate and garden lime is calcium carbonate - these are liming agents and have a different function to granite or basalt rock dust in soil.

Now my poor old brain is struggling to remember exactly why rock dust is so useful in an organic paradigm, but iirc it's to do with a) allowing much greater diversity of available micro nutrients, and b)providing surface area for fungi and bacteria.

http://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglibrary/010173.hensel.pdf - Bread from Stones is the one resource I remember on this, though I'm not sure how well regarded it is. Seems to be linked to by a ton of "Secrets-they-don't-want-you-to-know" sites which turns me right off. There's so much quackery in the organic field it can be hard to google the wheat from the chaff!


The first 150 pages of the thread on IcyMag is amazing reading and has hundreds of useful resources. Probably worth reading two or three times over a period of months.

Oh and I just got some blue granite which is Mainly Silica. And just got the smallest rocks could and it had dust all over them. $3 for 5gal

 

[Pattahabi]

Read this for a different outlook on tilling and organic gardening.


P-

 

[charpeasy420]

So just as a hypothesis people that are incubating VC in the dark with baby oatmeal, Rye seed would most likely work because people that culture mycelium(FOR MICRSCOPY RESEARCH PURPOSES ONLY)....... haha ya witch is the same process but pure Rye seed is used and is the best nutritionally compared to corn, oatmeal, and coffee

 

[Mohican]

I also place rocks (usually one) in my pots. I do not know why but it seems to make the plant happy