Questions on water, chlorine and chloromines

I've got a few questions arisen about water quality, filtering, chlorine etc. I've been filtering my tap water in an 80L/21Gal bin using an aquarium filter (ceramic, carbon & sponge) designed to 100L/26Gal. I let this run for a couple of days in an attempt to take out the chlorine and chloromines. The way the pump works also aerates the water so I'm pretty confident I'm getting rid of the dreaded chemicals. The problem is I'm also pretty certain I'm taking a lot of goodness out of the water.

Here's the local tap water analysis I've just found for my postal/zip code:

Analysis Typical Value UK/EU limit Units
Hardness Level Very Soft
Hardness Clarke 1.750 Clarke
Aluminium <17.3 200 µg Al/l
Calcium 7.55 mg Ca/l
Residual chlorine - Total 0.77 mg/l (chloromine is total chlorine minus free chlorine? 0.77-0.70=0.07 mg/l?)
Residual chlorine - Free 0.70 mg/l
Coliform bacteria 0 0 number/100ml
Colour <1.19 20 mg/l Pt/Co scale
Conductivity 76.9 2500 uS/cm at 20oC
Copper 0.0057 2 mg Cu/l
E.coli 0 0 number/100ml
Iron <8.16 200 µg Fe/l
Lead <0.714 10 µg Pb/l
Magnesium 1.34 mg Mg/l
Manganese <3.31 50 µg Mn/l
Nitrate 1.69 50 mg NO3/l
Sodium 8.36 200 mg Na/l

As you can see, there's a lot of good shit in there and some not so good. I used this water straight from the tap for years while growing in coco with chem nutes and the plants absolutely loved it, it's Ph neutral, so when it had nutrients added it was perfect ph without adjustment(I still tested though, just in case).

When I first converted to ROLS and using this method of filtering my water, I noticed some cal/mag def issues which I'd never had with coco and straight tap water and was pretty sure I had the right amounts in my soil. Is it possible that the oystershell meal and calcified seaweed hadn't had time to break down and become available?

I think the symptoms lent more to a mag def so I topdressed a little epsom salt and gave them an epsom/kelp foliar, which brought them round. I then found this product while browsing a local nursery and it immediately reminded me of sea90, which just ain't available where I am.

http://www.forti8mineral.co.uk/content/6-why-forti8mineral

It was on offer real cheap, like they were trying to get rid of it, so I bought 3 bottles pmsl, I thought it would replace some of the goodness I was taking out of my tap water. I didn't have any cal mag issues for ages while adding it, anyway I ran out about 2 months ago and sure enough my mag def came back, I'm growing blueberry and it seems real mag hungry, so I've been putting a tiny amount of epsom salt in the water bin after filtering.

Do you think my logic's totally off about the water?
Is it more a symptom of my soil not being right?
Although the forti8 isn't available at the nursery, I can get it online double the price I paid, but still fairly inexpensive, it seems the logical solution?
Would I be better scrapping the filter system and trying to neutralize the chemicals another way?


Cheers in advance for any replies

From what I can see your tap has a good deal of calcium to it. If your ROLS, then you have adequate calcium and magnesium. Too much calcium aggrevates the uptake of magnesium.

Sodium would be my next thought.
The coco grow was better because the CEC and frequent irrigation allow the salts to flush through and not accumulate.

In ROLS the CEC is very high and tends to hold onto more and release gradually.

Just my 2 cents tho-

Right...cheers for the insight GrandpaGJ........so....... I should keep filtering my water, but do you think it's worth adding the forti8 minerals after it's been filtered though, they say little and often is best and I was adding probably 80% of recommended dose to all my water with great results(it is quite cheap 5L for £20/$30, but that would last 4-5 years at my previous usage). I do have basalt/volcanic rock dust, oyster shell meal, gypsum and calcified seaweed in my soil mix, but I suspect in nature, the water taken in by plants already had some available soluble mineral content, which I'm totally stripping out of my water.

Here's the analysis for the forti8

Forti8 mineral stimulates the soil mycoflora promoting good mycorrhiza activity.

Mycorrhiza is the symbiotic association between plants and beneficial fungus.

This gives improved:

Nutrient and water uptake.

Root growth.

Plant growth and yield.

Parasite and nematode control.

Soil structure.

This also reduces:

Transplant shock.

Drought stress.

Susceptibility to disease.



Typical Analysis ppm

Calcium 27
Sodium 45510
Magnesium 87,000
Manganese 1
Boron 200
Copper .01
Molybdenum .04
Iron .36
Zinc .05
Suphur 32619
Phosphorous 1
Potassium 20500
Chloride 241200
Silver .006
Aluminium .282
Gold 0.001
Barium .001
Cobalt .005
Lithium 4.5
Nitrogen 500
Carbon 2640
Iodine 5
Selenium .1
Palladium .005
Platinum .001
Rubidium 29
Silicon 1
Strontium .15
Thallium .044
Vanadium .003
Tungsten .035
Bismuth .022
Cadmium .006
Lanthanum .018
Arsenic .214
Nickel .008
Lead .052
Tin .001
Tellurium .001
Titanium .001
Zirconium .001
Argon 56
Cerium .04
Gallium .002
Niobium .001
Thorium .004
Antimony .001
Beryllium .001

The thing that actually got me thinking about needing to re-mineralise after filtering was when I purchased the filter, the guy in the aquarium shop asked me if I needed minerals for re-adjusting the water. I said "I don't know..........do I? you tell me." He went on to explain that although the filter does make the water safe for the fish, it strips all the minerals out that that fish and aquatic plants need to survive.

DonBrennon said:

Right...cheers for the insight GrandpaGJ........so....... I should keep filtering my water, but do you think it's worth adding the forti8 minerals after it's been filtered though, they say little and often is best and I was adding probably 80% of recommended dose to all my water with great results(it is quite cheap 5L for £20/$30, but that would last 4-5 years at my previous usage). I do have basalt/volcanic rock dust, oyster shell meal, gypsum and calcified seaweed in my soil mix, but I suspect in nature, the water taken in by plants already had some available soluble mineral content, which I'm totally stripping out of my water.

Here's the analysis for the forti8

Forti8 mineral stimulates the soil mycoflora promoting good mycorrhiza activity.

Mycorrhiza is the symbiotic association between plants and beneficial fungus.

This gives improved:

Nutrient and water uptake.

Root growth.

Plant growth and yield.

Parasite and nematode control.

Soil structure.

This also reduces:

Transplant shock.

Drought stress.

Susceptibility to disease.



Typical Analysis ppm

Calcium 27
Sodium 45510
Magnesium 87,000
Manganese 1
Boron 200
Copper .01
Molybdenum .04
Iron .36
Zinc .05
Suphur 32619
Phosphorous 1
Potassium 20500
Chloride 241200
Silver .006
Aluminium .282
Gold 0.001
Barium .001
Cobalt .005
Lithium 4.5
Nitrogen 500
Carbon 2640
Iodine 5
Selenium .1
Palladium .005
Platinum .001
Rubidium 29
Silicon 1
Strontium .15
Thallium .044
Vanadium .003
Tungsten .035
Bismuth .022
Cadmium .006
Lanthanum .018
Arsenic .214
Nickel .008
Lead .052
Tin .001
Tellurium .001
Titanium .001
Zirconium .001
Argon 56
Cerium .04
Gallium .002
Niobium .001
Thorium .004
Antimony .001
Beryllium .001

The thing that actually got me thinking about needing to re-mineralise after filtering was when I purchased the filter, the guy in the aquarium shop asked me if I needed minerals for re-adjusting the water. I said "I don't know..........do I? you tell me." He went on to explain that although the filter does make the water safe for the fish, it strips all the minerals out that that fish and aquatic plants need to survive.

Click to expand...

Honestly I wouldn't use the forti8. It's unnecessary essentially and is mostly metals and alloys. As far as the guy at the fish store who told you your stripping all the minerals out, ....well, I wouldn't go back there. The only time you strip everything out is with reverse osmosis and followed by a de-ionzation filter, leaving 0ppm /0EC pure water. And since dudes talking about fish in water and not cannabis in soil, he's not a credible resource. Mabey fish can benifit from that product but I'd just use a simple sediment filter followed by carbon filters made for removing chloramines and chlorides. These are where the fish store comes in handy, fish are very intolerant to chloramines and chlorides so that's where you get those type of carbon filters. The average carbon filter will not remove chloramines.

I have a 8 stage 350 gpd RODI system that set me back in total around $1500 dollars. I barely use the full 8 stages anymore unless I'm brewing tea or growing full hydro with salts. Otherwise I use the first 3 stages as I advise above for you. Keepin it simple is best!

Let's see some greens bro!

Cheers bro, I'm probably overthinking things as usual, "KISS" !!!! , my blueberry's all seem to be fading earlier than they did last time round and I was worried I was lacking something for these reasons. TBH the plants seem more advanced and I think they may be finished a week earlier than the last run (cloned from same 2 year old mother), they started flowering very soon after flip, with less stretch than I was expecting. Here's the greens......

...........hhhmmmmmmnnnnnnn, calyx's are just beginning to swell and the smell is shweeeeeet...........yep, I've smoked a few, but that's why I do this shit. lol

Very nice! Those buds look awesome, and very healthy btw.

Your at about the 5th week now?

Yeah, about 5th week flowering, 6 week & 2 days since flip. The last run came down 10-11 weeks after flip, this run probably are at a similar stage (pistels starting to brown and calyx's starting to swell up) for the time frame, but the buds look like they're going to be bigger this time and as mentioned earlier, they are fading much sooner.

Agree with GGJ, I'd forgo that additive, you have a lot of minerals in that mix and whhhile the filter won't hurt anything, it damn sure isn't going to duplicate a RO unit AFA stripping minerals from the water.

At least the ones on my fishtanks didn't.

Have you tried it straight from the tap? If it worked fine with coco it should work fine with this mix.

Wet

I haven't Wet, it's something to consider I suppose, Maybe I could make a bit of humic acid the Elaine Ingham way(ie, pouring water through compost) and treat with this to neutralize chloromines. I'd be worried using it straight from the tap, even sat or bubbled overnight. I read local water authority reports when I first started converting to organics and they stated that they add chlorine, which is very harmful to micro-organisms, but fairly short lived and then another chemical I can't quite recall, which reacts with the chlorine to make chloromines which aren't quite as effective at killing micro-organisms, but last a lot longer and are harder to remove.
If I'm making an aact, I always bubble the water with the molasses and a little bit of kelp meal for an hour or two before I add EWC or compost, just in case and that's even after the filtering.

DonBrennon said:

Yeah, about 5th week flowering, 6 week & 2 days since flip. The last run came down 10-11 weeks after flip, this run probably are at a similar stage (pistels starting to brown and calyx's starting to swell up) for the time frame, but the buds look like they're going to be bigger this time and as mentioned earlier, they are fading much sooner.

Click to expand...

This is a pheno to keep!!!!
Fast blossoming, dense flower cluster, early maturing flowers!!!!!! Indica Dom. Yes please, where do I sign up!?!
I'd start thinking re-veg after harvest, reverse and get pollen to self her with. Get fem seeds identical to her.

I went through 20 beans to find her, was trying to find a pheno I had around 15years back, it had all the characteristics above but had a real pungent sweet smell. I think the current one is stronger to smoke, but nowhere near as smelly. The extra strength could well be down to organics over chems and TBH the smell of the old pheno, although very appealing, was a pain security wise.

Good idea about getting some seed off her and I will probably have a go in the future, it's just not practical at the mo, I'll be keeping the mother around tho and I've just ordered some beans to start breeding with

DonBrennon said:

I went through 20 beans to find her, was trying to find a pheno I had around 15years back, it had all the characteristics above but had a real pungent sweet smell. I think the current one is stronger to smoke, but nowhere near as smelly. The extra strength could well be down to organics over chems and TBH the smell of the old pheno, although very appealing, was a pain security wise.

Good idea about getting some seed off her and I will probably have a go in the future, it's just not practical at the mo, I'll be keeping the mother around tho and I've just ordered some beans to start breeding with

Click to expand...

A mother plant is way better to have around than the beans.

In my experience organics will almost always win over chems when it comes to terpenes, beauty and potency. Yeild can vary but I could care less about yeild honestly. I'd rather have the dankest burner around that's a 1 hitter quitter, over a bumper harvest of mediocre.