question about watts vs size of plant

hey guys just curious about this.
say for instance you have 300 watts of cfls running making around 20 000lumens
would it be more beneficial to grow smaller plants to get dense buds or to grow a large plant ?

basically do smaller plants use less lumens for flowering than say a large plant?

There are no plants that use lumens, lumens is a measurement for how humans see light

Plants use PAR and cfl's don't have a lot of PAR

okay still didn't answer my question.and yes on almost every site based on marijuana growing they state lumens required. so please stick to the actual question or stfu

chimera012 said:

okay still didn't answer my question.and yes on almost every site based on marijuana growing they state lumens required. so please stick to the actual question or stfu

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Only tryin to help, good luck with that

chimera012 said:

okay still didn't answer my question.and yes on almost every site based on marijuana growing they state lumens required. so please stick to the actual question or stfu

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I love it when newbies come on here and shoot of to an og that's only trying to help.

chimera012 said:

okay still didn't answer my question.and yes on almost every site based on marijuana growing they state lumens required. so please stick to the actual question or stfu

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Wow what the fuck is your problem? He just taught you something and thats how you reply? Plants dont use lumen!!! Your question has too many variables but if you would like a "noob" answer then, 50watts a square foot is atleast what you need with cfl's. Look up inverse square law and par and teach yourself something for a better understanding of whats needed.

RM3 said:

There are no plants that use lumens, lumens is a measurement for how humans see light

Plants use PAR and cfl's don't have a lot of PAR

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This is confusing although true information. Truth is as long as the light you use is good for horticulture lumens are still a good way to guage the useful light on your garden.

Now penetration is a different thing all together. And in the case of cfl's you will get much better results using a lot of them or keep them very close to the plant. They are weak for distance.

With HID (way more lumens per watt) you can keep the light feet away and still get good coverage.

Your tanning bed design proves this as you are maximizing coverage for your space. A space I can cover with 2 bulbs instead of many tubes.

Quality and light spectrum aside please.

So results are pretty much determined by lumens. It is just another way to measure light. All of our current ways have flaws.

MichiganMedGrower said:

This is confusing although true information. Truth is as long as the light you use is good for horticulture lumens are still a good way to guage the useful light on your garden.

Now penetration is a different thing all together. And in the case of cfl's you will get much better results using a lot of them or keep them very close to the plant. They are weak for distance.

With HID (way more lumens per watt) you can keep the light feet away and still get good coverage.

Your tanning bed design proves this as you are maximizing coverage for your space. A space I can cover with 2 bulbs instead of many tubes.

Quality and light spectrum aside please.

So results are pretty much determined by lumens. It is just another way to measure light. All of our current ways have flaws.

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So why continue to propagate false notions? There is no flaw if we're teaching/using proven botanical science. Lumens, because it is about how humans see light adds the green spectrum, which is the least used spectrum by plants (mostly absent from the PAR spectrum) and it's presence increases lumens the most of all visible spectrums.

I'm sorry but I simply don't understand how the truth is confusing?

RM3 said:

So why continue to propagate false notions? There is no flaw if we're teaching/using proven botanical science. Lumens, because it is about how humans see light adds the green spectrum, which is the least used spectrum by plants (mostly absent from the PAR spectrum) and it's presence increases lumens the most of all visible spectrums.

I'm sorry but I simply don't understand how the truth is confusing?

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It is easy for the lighting companies to exaggerate their spectrum graphs and par and umol figures. They also do not include the reflector. Which can be a major factor in what light gets to the plants.

I just think (and most university tests confirm ) that lumens trump spectrum every time. HPS vs MH has shown HPS wins even in veg for years. Even with the same wattage. It's because of intensity. Or lumens.


Not that the lumen figures are accurate but they are a baseline. If you make sure you have the proper watts or lumens per share foot. The averages of lamps and reflectors will likely give you enough light for a proper harvest.

If someone is asking this kind of question. Saying plants don't see lumens is not a helpful answer without an education in photosynthetic lighting.

Which I did not need for my first successful grows.

I want to mention that the university tests remain consistent even with cmh 315's. They showed that it would still take equal wattage to get equal plant growth.

I of course know the particulars of your more advanced knowledge of lighting but the question in this particular thread was a much more simple one.

And now I have confused the hell out of the answer. So I re state.

About 48 watts from the wall per square foot will likely ensure enough light for a great harvest. As long as the bulb is the right distance for its penetration.

Oh. And CFL"s are just little twisty t-5's. So placement is key. They can be full spectrum. I just put daylight bulbs in my house. Makes me feel better than the soft white. Plants too.

Am I way off base here?

RM3 said:

There are no plants that use lumens, lumens is a measurement for how humans see light

Plants use PAR and cfl's don't have a lot of PAR

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He's right you know.

chimera012 said:

okay still didn't answer my question.and yes on almost every site based on marijuana growing they state lumens required. so please stick to the actual question or stfu

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Pull the cotton from your ears, and put it in your mouth for a minute.

Aside from the drama going with the post. Let's answer the question.

You don't have the penitration in those lights to grow big plants. Period.
So go small and low.
Aim for some basic training techniques like LST and keep a small flat canopy or micro grow.

Once you understand how the plants work you can start working on technique, and maybe some social etiquette!

So how is everyone going to figure out how much of the par from the cute graph the horticultural and aquarium companies show gets to your plants?

I am asking this question seriously. I already tried the Hortilux daylight bulb. It did not work better. It still gets less par to the plants than their own super HPS at the same watts.


@RM3 ?

Note: I understand what and how plants use light.

chimera012 said:

hey guys just curious about this.
say for instance you have 300 watts of cfls running making around 20 000lumens
would it be more beneficial to grow smaller plants to get dense buds or to grow a large plant ?

basically do smaller plants use less lumens for flowering than say a large plant?

Click to expand...

I consider CFL to be like the tinker toy lights for noobs. You go buy all these electrical pieces and put them together and end up with a sketchy underperforming light. I did the CFL thing too. Building out an elaborate reflector from an old grill top. Painting the inside with silver paint. Buying light sockets, even soldered the connection within an electrical box I placed on top. And ended up using 4 enormous 65 actual watt CFLs for a total of 260 watts. It worked well but. It all cost more than I could have gotten an HPS on eBay. But, that male desire to tinker thing. It was fun to build. At the end of the day, it was an inefficient waste of money and time. Except it was a fun project. And worked.

The answer you need to hear is. Ditch the tinker lights and get a "real" grow light. I think the latest tech are COB's. HPS is cheap tho if you're on a budget. Good luck.

GrowUrOwnDank said:

I consider CFL to be like the tinker toy lights for noobs. You go buy all these electrical pieces and put them together and end up with a sketchy underperforming light. I did the CFL thing too. Building out an elaborate reflector from an old grill top. Painting the inside with silver paint. Buying light sockets, even soldered the connection within an electrical box I placed on top. And ended up using 4 enormous 65 actual watt CFLs for a total of 260 watts. It worked well but. It all cost more than I could have gotten an HPS on eBay. But, that male desire to tinker thing. It was fun to build. At the end of the day, it was an inefficient waste of money and time. Except it was a fun project. And worked.

The answer you need to hear is. Ditch the tinker lights and get a "real" grow light. I think the latest tech are COB's. HPS is cheap tho if you're on a budget. Good luck.

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There are some great CFL grows out there. But the bulbs are hung individually all around the plant and moved as it grows. And you need a lot of them.

MichiganMedGrower said:

There are some great CFL grows out there. But the bulbs are hung individually all around the plant and moved as it grows. And you need a lot of them.

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Right. I've experienced it first hand bro. And I read the SeeMoreBud book. lol. I loved that book too. But, Thing is they are tinker lights. They look dangerous because of all the electrical parts and wires. They don't penetrate. They cost just as much. Honestly I think it's mostly just a noob thing because you can go to your local home improvement store and put all the little pieces together yourself. It's like a male accomplishment thing. I'm just saying there are far better and often just as cheap if not cheaper and obviously safer and more efficient/effective options. If you have heat issues get a good LED. If not. HPS is cheap if you're on a budget. If you're a weed scientist then COB's, CMH etc seem to be the choice of the commercial guys. I don't know. I honestly cringe at some of the CFL set ups I've seen because they look dangerous. Just saying bro. If it's working for you and you like it that's fine. But in my opinion it's like the beginners way to grow.

MichiganMedGrower said:

So how is everyone going to figure out how much of the par from the cute graph the horticultural and aquarium companies show gets to your plants?

I am asking this question seriously. I already tried the Hortilux daylight bulb. It did not work better. It still gets less par to the plants than their own super HPS at the same watts.


@RM3 ?

Note: I understand what and how plants use light.

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Experimentation & plant response

GrowUrOwnDank said:

Right. I've experienced it first hand bro. And I read the SeeMoreBud book. lol. I loved that book too. But, Thing is they are tinker lights. They look dangerous because of all the electrical parts and wires. They don't penetrate. They cost just as much. Honestly I think it's mostly just a noob thing because you can go to your local home improvement store and put all the little pieces together yourself. It's like a male accomplishment thing. I'm just saying there are far better and often just as cheap if not cheaper and obviously safer and more efficient/effective options. If you have heat issues get a good LED. If not. HPS is cheap if you're on a budget. If you're a weed scientist then COB's, CMH etc seem to be the choice of the commercial guys. I don't know. I honestly cringe at some of the CFL set ups I've seen because they look dangerous. Just saying bro. If it's working for you and you like it that's fine. But in my opinion it's like the beginners way to grow.

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I don't use any cfl's. I use air cooled HPS. But the op asked about cfl's.

Funny thing (and I agree with you) my system has a night temp cutoff switch even. It's my house that could burn with us in it! is that you can get all kinds of grow lights at Home Depot. Ship to store if your city doesn't carry them. They even sell grow tents.

Fire hazard is a very good warning. Thanks for posting that. Especially since I am talking about using them close to be effective. Good catch.

RM3 said:

Experimentation & plant response

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That is very advanced stuff for a CFL thread. But you know at this point I agree. I have been watching leaves all night with my ac emergency.

You can only do what you are suggesting if you already have a healthy working room. And a healthy working knowledge.