Question about mounting Magnetic MH/ HPS ballasts

crazyc123

Member
I time the lights using a digital timer and $5 relays, one relay per 1/kw HID. The timer is used to activate the 12/vdc source that activates the relay(s). The relays switch the HID's on the HOT side or in some countries, the black wire. Never switch on the common/gnd side or white wire, in some countries. Each relay is equipped with a 15 amp bypass switch that I can use to switch on the HID'(s) manually in the event of a sub circuit circuit failure.

>>>>>>>> Common wall plug in timers and HID's do not mix well directly. <<<<<<<<

If what you've just read makes no sense to you, get a timer that is meant for HID lighting.
like i said i have purchased a Sentinel GPS HPLC-8T High Power Lighting Controller 8 Outlet with Integrated Timer
240 volt with 40 amp (2x20amp) built in circuit breaker running off heavy Orange 10 AWG and ETL listed to UL 508 STD for commercial use. figured that would be best thing out there.
 

Stevie51

Active Member
like i said i have purchased a Sentinel GPS HPLC-8T High Power Lighting Controller 8 Outlet with Integrated Timer
240 volt with 40 amp (2x20amp) built in circuit breaker running off heavy Orange 10 AWG and ETL listed to UL 508 STD for commercial use. figured that would be best thing out there.
Curious as to why you believe that the Sentinel GPS HPLC-8T has "built in circuit breaker" as I have never seen any reference on the web stating that it has built in overcurrent protection. The Orange 10 AWG may be capable of handling eight 600 watts lighting ballasts, but if your intentions is to is to run eight 1000 watts ballasts from that one lighting controller, you will need a cable capable of handling 50 amps (6 AWG) protected by a double pole 50 amp circuit breaker. Perhaps one of the sparky in the RIU forums could give you his definition of "for commercial use". Forgive me for being cynical, but I'm incline to believe that the use of the phrase "for commercial use" could be disclaimer in disguise by the manufacturer to protect the manufacturer for liability in the event a buyer is using that product for residential use.
 
I use the Titan Controls Helios 12 lighting controller that controls 8 1,000 watt HID lights with 4 outlets per 2 trigger switches that you can run all off one digital 120v $20 wall timer to control your lighting. It takes a 50amp 240v service to it. I think this is the best and am curious to see if there is better equipment out there.
 

crazyc123

Member
I use the Titan Controls Helios 12 lighting controller that controls 8 1,000 watt HID lights with 4 outlets per 2 trigger switches that you can run all off one digital 120v $20 wall timer to control your lighting. It takes a 50amp 240v service to it. I think this is the best and am curious to see if there is better equipment out there.
i use the Sentinel GPS- has a built in timer (24 hr @ 15 min), and two zones, you dont need the 120v timer, and i got mine for $208 i think. only thing is its not digital, but i like the old school manual. plus no need for the extra timer or wires, its all built in

fn HPLC-8T-1000-BOX.png
 

crazyc123

Member
Curious as to why you believe that the Sentinel GPS HPLC-8T has "built in circuit breaker" as I have never seen any reference on the web stating that it has built in overcurrent protection. The Orange 10 AWG may be capable of handling eight 600 watts lighting ballasts, but if your intentions is to is to run eight 1000 watts ballasts from that one lighting controller, you will need a cable capable of handling 50 amps (6 AWG) protected by a double pole 50 amp circuit breaker. Perhaps one of the sparky in the RIU forums could give you his definition of "for commercial use". Forgive me for being cynical, but I'm incline to believe that the use of the phrase "for commercial use" could be disclaimer in disguise by the manufacturer to protect the manufacturer for liability in the event a buyer is using that product for residential use.
i had an electrician tell me the 10 awg would be fine, i guess he did some calculations, what leads you to beileve it requires a higher gauge than 10 ? the lights are pulling 4.25 amps each x 8 is under 40a, so 50 amp breaker is perfect, i dont ever expect them to pull more than 40a anyways ? my calulations are saying ill pull 34a, which should be fine @ 8 or 10awg?

i heard if im running 8 or 10 with 75C insulation 10 is good for 45 amp and 8 is good for 50a ???

i know 60c is only good for 40a & 40a i can pull 32a, but 50 i should be able to pull 40a easy ?

im not and electrician, so please clarify so if i need to change it up i can asap

and i do beileve your correct, they are probably trying to subdue any potential liability, lol bastards.
 
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For determining what size wire to use this is handy
http://www.paigewire.com/pumpWireCalc.aspx
i like yours except that mine has two trigger cords one that controls each bank. I can put my box up top and my timer is down low where i can see it. They both do about the same purpose. Yours just does all 8 at once. Mine can be 8 or 4. I only use digital timers now. I stopped using those. I get power outages every so often because i live in the sticks. With each outage that timer doesnt move but digital ones have a battery backup. Plus with mine I can connect it to say a wireless control panel to have it run from there. You cant with yours as you cant upgrade. Where I can just plug mine into say the titan controls hiperion 1 so I can keep an eye on stuff. I doubt i would use that one but i need one that I can monitor on my phone. I need that text to tell me there is problems in the grow.
 

crazyc123

Member
That is alot better than what i have been looking at. It does both rooms at once as well as has a built in high heat shut off. sweet!
No power equals no lights but it also wont fire back up and not be on the right timing with the hydro pump system. Everything coming on when it shouldnt. Its happened a couple of times. Damage results every time. digital timers have never failed me. Its at least nice to the price of controllers coming down as well as the technology world advancing them.
i am going to get that system for the new grow room. Ok after the first grow! lol
 

Stevie51

Active Member
i had an electrician tell me the 10 awg would be fine, i guess he did some calculations, what leads you to beileve it requires a higher gauge than 10 ? the lights are pulling 4.25 amps each x 8 is under 40a, so 50 amp breaker is perfect, i dont ever expect them to pull more than 40a anyways ? my calulations are saying ill pull 34a, which should be fine @ 8 or 10awg?

i heard if im running 8 or 10 with 75C insulation 10 is good for 45 amp and 8 is good for 50a ???

i know 60c is only good for 40a & 40a i can pull 32a, but 50 i should be able to pull 40a easy ?

im not and electrician, so please clarify so if i need to change it up i can asap

and i do beileve your correct, they are probably trying to subdue any potential liability, lol bastards.
Please note in your illustration in post #24 above "To 240V 50 AMP 3+G Power Source". The circuit breaker should not be sized to more than the allowable ampacity of the wire. It appears to me that your electrician is using the CEC (Canadian Electrical Code) wire ampacities chart. I was citing from the NEC (National Electrical Code) assuming that you are living in the United States. The NEC definitely restrict the use of 14AWG, 12AWG, 10AWG to 60C ampacity. Use of NM-B type cable in the U.S. does have some restrictions imposed by the NEC to limit it use to 60C ampacity, which is why I was hesitant to suggest 8AWG cable. I'm not an electrician by trade, but I hear some electricians in the RIU forums saying you can use it as a 75C feeder to a sub-panel. You and your electrician seem to think that the most combine amps your ballasts will be drawing is 34 amps, but have you and your electrician actually look at the data plate on the ballasts to get the actual amp draw information?
 
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crazyc123

Member
Please note in your illustration in post #24 above "To 240V 50 AMP 3+G Power Source". The circuit breaker should not be sized to more than the allowable ampacity of the wire. It appears to me that your electrician is using the CEC (Canadian Electrical Code) wire ampacities chart. I was citing from the NEC (National Electrical Code) assuming that you are living in the United States. The NEC definitely restrict the use of 14AWG, 12AWG, 10AWG to 60C ampacity. Use of NM-B type cable in the U.S. does have some restrictions imposed by the NEC to limit it use to 60C ampacity, which is why I was hesitant to suggest 8AWG cable. I'm not an electrician by trade, but I hear some electricians in the RIU forums saying you can use it as a 75C feeder to a sub-panel. You and your electrician seem to think that the most combine amps your ballasts will be drawing is 34 amps, but have you and your electrician actually look at the data plate on the ballasts to get the actual amp draw information?

yes thats where we ot the amps from in the first place, but i could run a kill-a-watt and measure actuall wattage draws and i think meter some way of calculating amps
 

Stevie51

Active Member
yes thats where we ot the amps from in the first place, but i could run a kill-a-watt and measure actuall wattage draws and i think meter some way of calculating amps
It is not necessary to go to the extreme of investing in a kill-a-watt meter. I am confident that you will be drawing under 40 amps. The issue I am more concern about is when the ampere load is exceeding 80% of the allowable ampacity of a given wire size, heat is generated in the wire and at the terminal connections. Express in other words, it can be stated that the ampacity size of the wire and the circuit breaker should be 125% of the anticipated load. I guess I have learn my lesson today to not get involved with another man's sparky, unless I am prepared to give elaborate replies. You can google NEC Table 310.16 or the newer 2011 edition NEC Table 310.15(B)(16) for more information. Do not use the 90C column for the allowable ampacity. The 90C column is used for derating calculations only. I have no idea of what is in the CEC wire ampacities chart, as I am unable to find it on the web.
 
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