Quantitative Airstone Test. an end to the hype

Hey Legally,
Good thread, read the whole thing - even the wars.
Do you have any grow threads, I'd like to see what you're working with. How many buckets/sites are you running off that "pondmaster ap-100" (right? 148L/min)?
At first I was thinking 10L/min per 5 gal bucket (not 5 full gals water in each when in system mind you) for pump sizing, though I planned on an ~80L/min pump for 4 sites (plus control/res) at around 20L/min so I could upgrade and use it for 8-ish buckets later on. Now I'm thinking 80L/min+ regardless and see how it works on buckets. Planning on the simple blue-ish cylinder ecoplus(i think) 2 inch air stones; either 1 or 2 of'em tee'd of per bucket.

Note: I have an alita al15 (20L/min) and I have to micro pore (small or medium size single) stones tee'd off and when I throw that in a single full 5 gall is pretty awesome. I want at least near that in each grow site :/ I guess 10 to 20 lpm/site.

Thanks for ANYONE that wants to still discuss this, haha.

Peace

legallyflying said:

...There is a pint where there is TOO MUCH OXYGEN!! It will start messing with your roots. I was running a UC and having problems. I called UC and he said "shit, your putting like 4 times the recommended amount of air in the system. I scaled down and the problems went away.

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Hey Legally,
I wanted to know about your Pondmaster AP-100 air pump setup. How is it working? How many lines from manifold are you running, and how many air stones? How long have you had it now? Does it stay a lot cooler than that Ecoplus commercial air one does?
Well my question is posted in your thread.
I tried to PM ya as well, but your inbox is full or something.
-->The quote above really emphasized in my mind that I wanted to pick your brain about that Pondmaster/Supreme air pump you're using. You have the AP-100 right? 148 L/min (!!) I'm thinking the 90 L/min AP-60 for 4-5 buckets (and up to 8-9 total). What do you think. And tell me about your pump setup please?

Thanks for your time,

Ins.

The AR 100 fucking rocks dude. Like seriously. I honestly don't know why hydro stores sell the piece of shit Eco pumps. They get so fucking hot and Jesus are they loud. The pondmaster is warm but in no way hot.

Depends on price between the two pumps. I would probably go with the 100 and run two stones for each bucket. The stones can clog. Some do some dont and I can't figure out why. So it's always nice to have a back up.

I am running 12 stones of that pump. I don't use a manifold as the buckets are spaced about 3 feet apart and that would mean tons of black tubing everywhere. What I did was hook the pump up to a loop of 1/2" funny pipe...the stuff for drip irrigation systems. It's run behind all the buckets then I just tap into it right behind each bucket with the drip irrigation barbs.

FYI. I just ordered a dozen of the sintered alita airstone. They make a 2" oval stone now and the sintered material is supposed to never clog. They R about $7 each. I'll keep you posted and glad you liked the thread.

This is an excellent thread, but I'm curious if anyone knows how quickly roots absorb oxygen. I'm sure it varies from plant to plant, but does anyone have any idea? I would think this would be a very important variable to this test.

Heisenberg said:

The real reason to pay attention to DO levels is to prevent pathogens from growing. Pathogens have a hard time living in any solution aerated to 6pp-8pp DO.

Interesting-----how did you conclude that?

The point not discussed in this thread is: What is the minimum DO level before adverse consequences occur and where is the point of diminishing returns?

At 8ppm DO you are only supplying about 1% of what the roots require, the rest has to come from contact with air. The more oxygen available, the more oxidization can take place which allows more photosynthesis up top. That is why more bubbles equals better performance, and why aeroponic systems have wild growth.

I run medium less aeroponics (4k flowering) powered by tandem 3/4 hp pumps and a haven't seen much of a difference from other feed methods. I've had some very healthy crops running 5.0 ppm DO.


More oxygen = more feeding = more energy for photosynthesis = more growth. Studies have shown roots can spend only 1 sec of every minute in direct contact with (atomized) nute solution and plants still grow at amazing rates. When you consider this, the difference between 8ppm and 10ppm DO in the water seems negligible, and the importance of well placed stones becomes apparent.

lots of ways to oxygenate nutes in hydro.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroponics
http://hydroponics-gardening-information.com/Oxygen.html

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Stay safe and have fun,

A~~~

LOL, diggin uo the past with this thread. Yes, the pondmaster pumps rock for sure. I just started a big..ok, HUGE room but decided to screw all the hydro worries and just run hempy buckets.

no, there won't be a grow thread. Not worth the time and energy and, well, risk

legallyflying said:

I just started a big..ok, HUGE room but decided to screw all the hydro worries and just run hempy buckets.

no, there won't be a grow thread. Not worth the time and energy and, well, risk

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That's a shame. I understand, but I'd be interested in hearing more about your motivation for going hempy buckets, what exactly 'all the hydro worries' is that you want to avoid, and especially how you think about the switch to hempy buckets at the end of the cycle. Doesn't have to be a grow thread, can be one post

That's an easy one

Root rot
Chillers
Running air pumps
Scrubbing and bleaching air stones
Scrubbing the Rez

Vs

Mix perlite and a little coco
Go to the dump at the end of the cycle

Ok, I can imagine in a "HUGE" room, running "chillers" is a major downside. Running air pumps, valid downside even though it doesn't seem like a major one by itself. But once you do, do you still get root rot, still need to scrub the rez? Have you considered other options than hempy? Just curious, I'm going to build a new closet for next round and want to keep an open mind till I buy PVC again.

I guess I should read through that Hempy thread some day... someone recommended it in my first thread at RIU, it just seems a little boring, sort of like growing on soil. And the continues monitoring of PH and ppm gives me so much feedback, I wouldn't want to miss that again.

I never scrub my rez or airstones. I run an airpump + stones just to optimize DO (have plenty of circulation and 3 waterfalls already), and my rez smells fresh all the time. Only thing I do is throw 2 caps of bleach in it about an hour 'before' I refresh the rez. It's probably a bit like with bud rot, I haven't had root or bud rot yet so I'm not too worried about it either. Surely that'll change once I encountered it but so far so good.

legallyflying said:

Go to the dump at the end of the cycle

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Have you considered Mapito? Not saying it's better or whatever, but I find it interesting that I don't see it here at RIU, while it's so popular amongst commercial (1gpw+) growers in NL. Just slabs of mapito with rockwool cubes on top of it, some cut a small square in the slab to insert the cube. You won't have to dump the medium for several cycles.

I use shit tons of air and if I don't run Benies I get slime. Like instantly. Even with zone or h2o2. Bleach is an option but I just said fuck all that noise...

I just went back to ebb and flow. Just easier

On the big room though. We are rocking trees.. They are 6' tall and we haven't put then in the room yet! Mostly because the room is just getting finished. Anyways, trees need 18 gallons of perlite each.

I'm completely exhausted dude. I hung 4 12" max can fans from the ceiling, painted the whole room, installed the main controller board and hung 18 ballasts on the wall. Which was fun compared to yesterday...running 180 feet of 4/0 aluminum wire from the main panel to the new meter. Uggggggh

legallyflying said:

They are 6' tall [...] need 18 gallons of perlite each. [...] hung 4 12" max can fans from the ceiling,[...] hung 18 ballasts [...]running 180 feet of 4/0 aluminum wire

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Yeah, that does sound "HUGE". It's shame you won't be doing a grow thread, understandable though.

I might snap a couple pictures of the set up once it's all in but my good wide angle camera lens is at the repair shop

Plus. While it is nice to get the "sweet dude" when starting a nuce grow log..grow threads are allot of work and unfortunately, you (I) never learn anything new, you just end up asking questions for the newbs.

Over it. I'll send you some pictures though