Pruning/defoliating

a few snips here today, a few sinps there tomrrorow, it seems every day I’m taking something off. (hiding away from the Family the last few days sat watching the plants grow hasn’t helped either)

just seeing what everyone’s thoughts on it are, is it worth saving it for one day or just carry on snipping as I go,

a rule of thumb for work is no more than 30% off at once but taking 30% off every day can’t be right, so also I don’t suppose anyone knows What the recovery time after making a cut is ?

hope that all makes sense and any help is appreciated

thanks

You can remove 5 to 10 leaves a day until you have good light penetration and air flow with little to no I'll effects. But remember the leaves are the powerhouse for the plant. Less isn't necessarily better.

If I have an excess of foliage and I kinda get behind it I'll get rude with it.
ProPheT 216 has good advice, only get big with it if they have plenty of solar panels and aggressive growth.

AnnFrank said:

a few snips here today, a few sinps there tomrrorow, it seems every day I’m taking something off. (hiding away from the Family the last few days sat watching the plants grow hasn’t helped either)

just seeing what everyone’s thoughts on it are, is it worth saving it for one day or just carry on snipping as I go,

a rule of thumb for work is no more than 30% off at once but taking 30% off every day can’t be right, so also I don’t suppose anyone knows What the recovery time after making a cut is ?

hope that all makes sense and any help is appreciated

thanks

Click to expand...

Removing leaves from the canopy? A few thoughts about that.

Leaves on the canopy are the primary means of turning photons from light into glucose via photosynthesis. When you remove a leaf at canopy height, you're exposing leaves under the canopy to light. The primary function of those leaves is not to turn photons into glucose via photosynthesis. They can perform that function but that's not their primary function. In addition, instead of receiving a PPFD of Xµmol, they're receiving < X because light levels fall off very quickly. A drop in 6" can be a PPFD loss of 100µmol.

In addition to getting less light on leaves that don't convert photons to glucose as well as the leaves on the top of the canopy, there's no particular reason to expose the foliage below the canopy to light. Bud sites don't change because they're getting light. Bud sites have a primary function of turning into flowers and have very little chlorophyll so they can't do much in the way of photosynthesis and they grow based on the glucose available made available to them by the leaves in the canopy (that some growers cut off) and they grow according to their DNA, not because they get a bit more light.

@Delps8
Can you kindly please explain what "primary function" you feel those other leaves are for if not photosynthesis?
I'm certainty interested and definitely understand the "need" for a level and some consistency in the upper story of the canopy. Siting a few online sources would be appreciated as well.

Lots of good science related info being shared….and I wish I had a better understanding of the topic.
After many grows and trying various defoliation schedules, theories and techniques, I’ve kinda settled on my way. I can’t say that my grows wouldn’t turn out better if done differently, but it’s working better than any of the other routes I’ve taken.
Basically,I choose to prune/defoliate over many days opposed to doing it all in one or two settings.
Once the plants get later in Veg, I’ll be aggressive but only if there is vibrant growth occurring.
I only grow photos, so I can’t say what I’d do with an auto. I don’t like the feeling of playing “beat the clock” that comes w/ growing autos.
Anyway, I usually top a couple times and try to really spread the plant out to create an even canopy. I much prefer a sea of golf ball size tops opposed to fewer big long colas. But that’s me….
While doing this I’ll remove the lower half or so. By the time my lollipopping is done, it’s about half and half.
I can’t speak to whether direct light improves specific bud sites, but I try to create as much direct light as possible to every site, once the stretch is over. So far, my yield seems good and I have almost zero loose larfy growth to deal with.
Hell, after reading the comments above, maybe I’ve been wasting my time.
I guess the bottom line is, IMO, if the plant is healthy and vibrant, it can handle taking leaves off whenever you choose.

I prefer as many leaves as possible, I like to think they help feed the flowers as they change color and die. If they’re overlapping or covering bud sites they go. I also use them to help control humidity, too high pull more too low leave them. Definitely remove the bottom to help airflow and make top dressing and watering easier. You can listen to other people but at the end of the day do what you thinks best and you fail that’s the best way to learn.

In most cases I see little reason to defoliate. Like to tie down branches early on, so the plant branches are spread out, never had an issue with too many leaves

I only defoliate through absolute need I'd rather leaf em alone, not for a minute do I believe plants do "better" without them.

Below the leaf

I'm not a scientist and i don't read much so idk much more than the basic stuff like light strikes leafs = photosynthesis = food = Co2 absorption + transpiration + food stores.

Try a iodine starch test, that confirms leafs supply starch at night, it's beyond question it's science fact.

sfw1960 said:

@Delps8
Can you kindly please explain what "primary function" you feel those other leaves are for if not photosynthesis?
I'm certainty interested and definitely understand the "need" for a level and some consistency in the upper story of the canopy. Siting a few online sources would be appreciated as well.

Click to expand...

My comment on that topic is based on a blog entry by the proprietor of cocoforcannabis on the topic of defoliation. His claim was that leaves under the canopy might be harmed by being exposed to light but he offered no supporting evidence of that.
I would suspect that leaves under the canopy are more suited toward transpiration rather than collecting photons because that's the environment where they exist. There is less light and because RH will tend to be higher under the canopy, due to lower temps and more limited airflow. That's a supposition on my part and I'm more than happen to learn, definitively, one way or the other.
I don't have a cite but it's a small site and shouldn't be hard to find, if you're so inclined.

Bullmark said:

Lots of good science related info being shared….and I wish I had a better understanding of the topic.
After many grows and trying various defoliation schedules, theories and techniques, I’ve kinda settled on my way. I can’t say that my grows wouldn’t turn out better if done differently, but it’s working better than any of the other routes I’ve taken.
Basically,I choose to prune/defoliate over many days opposed to doing it all in one or two settings.
Once the plants get later in Veg, I’ll be aggressive but only if there is vibrant growth occurring.
I only grow photos, so I can’t say what I’d do with an auto. I don’t like the feeling of playing “beat the clock” that comes w/ growing autos.
Anyway, I usually top a couple times and try to really spread the plant out to create an even canopy. I much prefer a sea of golf ball size tops opposed to fewer big long colas. But that’s me….
While doing this I’ll remove the lower half or so. By the time my lollipopping is done, it’s about half and half.
I can’t speak to whether direct light improves specific bud sites, but I try to create as much direct light as possible to every site, once the stretch is over. So far, my yield seems good and I have almost zero loose larfy growth to deal with.
Hell, after reading the comments above, maybe I’ve been wasting my time.
I guess the bottom line is, IMO, if the plant is healthy and vibrant, it can handle taking leaves off whenever you choose.

Click to expand...

I remove the "ash and trash" under the canopy meaning small branches that have only very small buds and that are very slender. They're just a PITA to deal with at harvest time.

Re. yield - my thinking is that I'd rather the plant put energy into adding leaves rather than replacing them.

Leaves do lose their photosynthetic efficiency. I've seen that in a couple of research papers but nothing more was said about it.

If you're getting good results, you're getting good results. The biggest issue that I see is growers not getting their light levels up to the light saturation point. That's unfortunate because, in a lot of situations, all it takes is turning the dial and, presto!, more weed.

I haven't studied the science of photosynthesis since a single botony class my freshman year in college, but I do have real life experience. I've always done a lot of defoliation, mostly a few leaves a day toward the end of veg, then a significant defoliation 3 weeks into flower.

Last year I took the advice of the anti-defoliation crowd on this forum. The result was an almost total loss due to budrot.

Unless you can grow in very low humidity, avoiding budrot requires good air circulation and constant air replacement. As previously said, a healthy plant can handle a good amount of leaf loss. My not defoliating last year did produce very large leafy buds, and awesome looking plants, but what good was that when the moldy buds went straight to the trash.

bigboerboel said:

I haven't studied the science of photosynthesis since a single botony class my freshman year in college, but I do have real life experience. I've always done a lot of defoliation, mostly a few leaves a day toward the end of veg, then a significant defoliation 3 weeks into flower.

Last year I took the advice of the anti-defoliation crowd on this forum. The result was an almost total loss due to budrot.

Unless you can grow in very low humidity, avoiding budrot requires good air circulation and constant air replacement. As previously said, a healthy plant can handle a good amount of leaf loss. My not defoliating last year did produce very large leafy buds, and awesome looking plants, but what good was that when the moldy buds went straight to the trash.

Click to expand...

Great point….I should have mentioned in my comments that another benefit of removing leaves is improved air flow and curtailing moisture related issues.
I got a D in my college freshman Biology class and it was a gift…..so discussing photosynthesis and the like is just not in my skill set.
I just know that lollipopping, additional defoliation (providing more light penetration and air flow) and training for a wide even canopy has resulted in mostly tops with all the buds dense with no loose leafy flowers to deal with. Boy that was one helluva long run-on sentence.
Anyway, to each their own and best of luck to all.

I think a level canopy is imperative for the consistency of the flower...
I pinched, ripped and broke things but it kept going.
I believe this was about 35" from the top of the coco - I needed to move it a couple times because the others were closer to 18-20" and this one didn't get the memo from her sister either.


MORE bro science?
Don't mess with autos, you'll damage them - lol!