Producing Feminised Seeds Using Colloidal Silver

Medi 1

Well-Known Member
you have nice info there bud, but i will say that what this does is stress to them. and this is how most get them hemies, they do it worng. they dont bother using a second stable female clone from same mom. they let the pollen hit the same plant that was sprayed and thus there is a strtessed plant making for more of a chance....depending on stability of it ...to be hermies. take that pollen and hit to the second and that new recipiant isnt a stressed plant...feminized.
thats how it was explained to me. changing a plants make up mid way is going to cause some amount of stress...its just not natural.
 

Grumpy Old Dreamer

Well-Known Member
you have nice info there bud, but i will say that what this does is stress to them. and this is how most get them hemies, they do it worng. they dont bother using a second stable female clone from same mom. they let the pollen hit the same plant that was sprayed and thus there is a strtessed plant making for more of a chance....depending on stability of it ...to be hermies. take that pollen and hit to the second and that new recipiant isnt a stressed plant...feminized.
thats how it was explained to me. changing a plants make up mid way is going to cause some amount of stress...its just not natural.
It is not actually stressing the plant, it is inhibiting the ethelyne production by chemically tieing up the available copper molecules ... however, as I will be applying the pollen to non-sprayed clones from the same mom it doesn't matter.

The plant that has been sprayed with Colloidal Silver only has a couple of distorted female flowers and the exhausted pre-flowers, so when the pollen is available there should be no viable female flowers on the pollen plant to worry about.
 

Grumpy Old Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Are you using a ppm or EC meter to determine the strength of the colloidal silver?

And also, since you seem the DIY experimental type that is sharing with the community - if you have an extra ~$20 to throw in, I'd love to see an experiment using "Reverse It" (DutchMaster) on any hermaphroditism now that you are in a position to try using it experimentally.

I don't have a ppm or EC meter as I haven't migrated into hydro growing yet - hempy buckets will be my next step so full hydro may be in the future.

Knowing the strength of the Colloidal Silver doesn't matter as long as it works.
I'm not sure whether the ppm would be an accurate indicator of effectiveness as I have heard that the size of the silver molecules plays a large factor ... not just the concentration of the molecules.
Whether molecule size is related to the size of the current is something that could be relevant, if in fact the molecule size is important.

Unfortunately I am seriously restricted in the size of my grow space so running several experiments won't be happening for quite a while.
 

Grumpy Old Dreamer

Well-Known Member
ive pasted 2 links below that may interest sum people, the titles are self explanitory. when i first started growing last year i had a few hermie problems and of course being a newbie i panicked. eventually i was pointed in the right direction and told to check these links, they are crammed with info on the subject of hermies, seed production etc. i used the product mentioned 'dutch masters reverse' and while i dont fully understand why it works i can definetly assure you it does work.

https://www.rollitup.org/seed-strain-reviews/182247-feminized-seeds-hermie-test-14-a.html

https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/139699-dutchmasters-reverse-study-hermies.html
Thanks for the links dura72 - good info, well worth reading.
 

TaoWolf

Active Member
ive pasted 2 links below that may interest sum people, the titles are self explanitory. when i first started growing last year i had a few hermie problems and of course being a newbie i panicked. eventually i was pointed in the right direction and told to check these links, they are crammed with info on the subject of hermies, seed production etc. i used the product mentioned 'dutch masters reverse' and while i dont fully understand why it works i can definetly assure you it does work.

https://www.rollitup.org/seed-strain-reviews/182247-feminized-seeds-hermie-test-14-a.html

https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/139699-dutchmasters-reverse-study-hermies.html
Thanks dura72 - missed your links right before I posted next asking about DM Reverse.
 

TaoWolf

Active Member
Worth checking out:

The voltage source may be the same or higher as constant voltage generators at the beginning of the operation but the similarity between constant voltage and constant current generators diverges rapidly. As the current flow begins to increase with increased water conductivity, the "constant current" regulator begins to reduce the voltage in order to keep the current at the desired amount of flow. With the voltage being reduced in order to keep the current constant, the silver particle size remains uniform.

As the water becomes very conductive, the voltage may be reduced to as little as 5 or 6 volts to maintain the desired current flow. With this type circuit, one may leave the generator connected to the electrodes and not worry that "runaway" will occur. You may leave the generator on until the strength of silver in parts per million is reached and be assured the particle sizes are uniform and colloidal. This is the secret of repeatable production of colloidal silver.

Constant current equals constant size particles. Any concentrations higher than 50 ppm require the additions of stabilizers in order to prevent fallout. However, colloidal silver made over 15 PPM will usually agglomerate so it is recommended that you do not make it over that strength. An automatic generator with a stirring motor can make up to 20 PPM without agglomeration.

If the particles are as small as can be made and also colloidal, the water will be clear and will also show the Tyndall effect. If they are larger, the water color will shift toward yellow because of agglomeration. Still larger particles appear red; then green and the blue ones are the largest. The proper color for colloidal silver water is clear. If it is clear and has a weak Tyndall effect, the particle size is as small as can be made. That is the best way to know you have colloidal silver water. Make it yourself and then you will know and see what we mean! The proof is in the clear color and the Tyndall effect. Of course you can also test it using a meter to determine the total PPM.

Excerpted from: here.
 

TaoWolf

Active Member
If you can get a cheap laser pointer (or already have one):

tyndall3.jpg
At least you'll easily know if the process worked. And as long as you aren't seeing the water turning colors (like yellow) and nothing is precipitating to the bottom, you'll know you aren't going overboard and have have small particle size without using a ppm/EC meter.

[Just for clarity, the tap water used in the picture is just there to show it doesn't have a Tyndall effect compared to a colloidal solution. A colloidal suspension will usually have a color tinge to the water that is apparent.]
 

Zootime

Well-Known Member
Colloidal Silver is great stuff i drink it to protect myself from disease. I wonder if it has the same effects on MJ?

Oh and yelow/golden collodial silver is just perfect, that's when you know it is done. Your also not supposed to use tap water.
 

Medi 1

Well-Known Member
and you dont think that stopping a plant from doing what it wants is somewhat stressfull?. even a transplant does stress to a point. ive been doing this for years and it surew does cause stress. and you should be using a ec pen or its just guessing. needs to be a certain ppm or ec for this to work right. i run mine up to 50 ppm, if i remember right needs to be minimum 30 ppm. its all the ppm and has nothing to do with size of anything

if it wasnt stressed then why would it have distored flowers on it.
 

Grumpy Old Dreamer

Well-Known Member
and you dont think that stopping a plant from doing what it wants is somewhat stressfull?. even a transplant does stress to a point. ive been doing this for years and it surew does cause stress. and you should be using a ec pen or its just guessing. needs to be a certain ppm or ec for this to work right. i run mine up to 50 ppm, if i remember right needs to be minimum 30 ppm. its all the ppm and has nothing to do with size of anything

if it wasnt stressed then why would it have distored flowers on it.
Plants are not total nervous wrecks - some plants handle heat stress better than others, depends where the dominant genotype came from - others can handle nute abuse while others drop balls at the first sign of neglect.

The word "STRESS" covers a multitude of what we can do to a plant, and just because one thing triggers the self preservation trait of a plant - it doesn't mean that the plant reacts to everything/anything.

So ... if my plants only suffer severe life threatening stress when drenched with Colloidal Silver, then hopefully, as long as I avoid drenching them in Colloidal Silver - I should be fine.

The distortion of the flowers is probably some physical indication that the plant has abandoned producing female flowers and realised (mistakenly) that (s)he is a male ... which of course it is not ... or some such waffle.
 

Medi 1

Well-Known Member
well i can see your just guessing from the answers so hopw do you know how much stress that is causing, its deffinatly not a natural thing so its stress. and yes some take it better than others is why we get some hermies and some not in fem seeds.
dosent matter if its a small amount of stress or alot..stress is stress. and i never said it was a life threatening amount of stress. a trasnsplant isnt either but its still stress.
and i can just about gaurantee the distoreds flowers are a mutated gene from stress. like when we get single or 3 finger leaves,.its not dyin but that is still stress to
 

Grumpy Old Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Why do I need to know "how much" stress the Colloidal Silver is causing?

If every plant that I grow from the seeds is susceptable to being "stressed" by Colloidal Silver ... then, ??? I don't treat them with Colloidal Silver and they won't be stressed.

The idea is to use a strain that doesn't respond to "normal" stress, and treat it with Colloidal Silver ... hopefully the resulting plants also won't respond to "normal" stress, and if they still respond to Colloidal Silver induced "stress" - then nothing has changed and I can't see where the argument is trying to go.
 

Medi 1

Well-Known Member
all i was doing was answering this highlighted or bold sentence pasted below near the bottom..





The topic of Feminized seeds normally causes a difference of opinion as well as a few mis-truths by those who dislike Feminized seeds.

Statements saying that Feminized seeds are from hermies and will grow hermies are basically wrong and would hardly reflect good business practice from long established breeders in a very cut-throat seed market.

Cannabis plants have a strong compulsion towards survival of the species, and, should the plant encounter conditions that it is "genetically programmed" to recognise as threatening, it may produce flowers of the opposite sex.

Some plants have a high tolerance to stress/threats and others have a much lower tolerance, the ones with the lower stress tolerance are "more likely to go hermie" than those with a high tolerance.

A plant that hermies easily with very little stress will prodce seeds that will grow into plants with the same low stress tolerance. These seeds are not recommended to be grown.

If you have a plant that has survived being mistreated and only produced a couple of male flowers late in flowering, then those seeds are worth keeping. They will grow into female plants that can take a fair amount of stress, and if you don't stress them they will most likely never grow a ball.

Some plants simply won't respond to stress by producing male flowers. These are the plants that you would like to collect pollen from as the pollen should pass on the stress resistant gene.
Self pollination would be best as both "parents" are the same and the stress resistant gene is not diluted.
How to get the pollen?
Plants grown beyond fully ripe flowering often produce male flowers in a "last ditch" attempt at species survival. Pollen taken from such a plant wouldn't tend to produce hermies as the pollen donor didn't succumb to stress but lived to old age.

Growing plants well past their prime to harvest pollen is time (and resource) consuming and not easily controlled.

A more efficient, easily controlled, way is to induce male flowers without subjecting the plant to any stress.

This is where Colloidal Silver is useful.


Using Colloidal Silver on a plant has nothing to do with stressing the plant.
What happens (in terms that I can just about understand) is that the silver molecules bind themselves to copper molecules in the bud sites of the plant.
Copper is used for ethelyne production by the plant which is used for bud production in female plants.
By binding up the copper molecules and making them unavailable, the Colloidal Silver suppresses the ethelyne production and effectively tricks the plant into thinking it is male.
Again, it has nothing to do with stress, and if the plant didn't have a genetic inclination towards being a hermie, then the seeds will not have the hermie trait either.

To use Colloidal Silver you simply spray the selected plant (or bud or branch of a plant) with colloidal silver before putting it under 12/12 lighting. Repeat the application until male flowers appear.

The fact that you can treat a single bud or branch on a plant and ONLY that area will produce male flowers allows you to harvest pollen and keep flowering the parent plant as a female.
Simply remove the affected branch as the male flowers are reaching maturity and stick it in a flower vase while the pollen sacs ripen, that way you control which flowers get pollinated.


I prefer to use clones for treating with CS as they are small and easily quarantined when needed.
 

TaoWolf

Active Member
I don't think there's anything to arguing that colloidal silver causes hermaphroditism via generalized "stress" - especially if you are only applying to a limited part of the plant. Or if it is causing a lot of stress, you likely aren't doing something right. In fact, using CS to get pollen is perfect for plants that are resistant to stress-induced hermaphroditism. Do you mean you are seeing distorted calyx's Medi1?
 

Medi 1

Well-Known Member
this isnt my info. im cleaning up the miss information. grumpy old dreamer is the one having this.
he is claiming it has nothing to do with stress..im trying to show it is stress..little or alot, stress is stress.. we onlt take 1 bite of an apple..its still an apple if we dont take it al isnt it. kidna same thing, just cause its only a small bit dosnet make it not called stress anymore.
 

Grumpy Old Dreamer

Well-Known Member
this is old.. WAY old.

you know, the search feature DOES work pretty good.

peace..
Agreed, the subject has been discussed before ... does that mean that the subject is now off-limits?

I am simply showing exactly how I do it and documenting my results which will cover use of CS, collection/application of pollen, harvesting of seeds and growing the next generation ... if you know it all already then you don't need to read further.

Growing plants has been discussed before - should new growers also be discouraged from posting their grow journals and just be told that it is "old" and they should use the search feature.
That would make for a pretty boring forum if that were the case.

this isnt my info. im cleaning up the miss information. grumpy old dreamer is the one having this.
he is claiming it has nothing to do with stress..im trying to show it is stress..little or alot, stress is stress.. we onlt take 1 bite of an apple..its still an apple if we dont take it al isnt it. kidna same thing, just cause its only a small bit dosnet make it not called stress anymore.
Instead of agreeing to disagree on our opinions of whether chemically blocking certain molecules is stress, how about we use the term "Normal Stress" - that's the type of stress most gardeners subject their plants to, light/heat/nutes etc.

I hope that you agree that there are differing types of stress, and just because one thing stresses a plant it doesn't mean the plant is affected by all stress situations.

Using Colloidal Silver is "Abnormal Stress", and as long as the plant is only susceptable to sex change through the use of Colloidal Silver and not "Normal Stress", all is good and the offspring should only be triggered by Colloidal Silver as well. The next generation of seeds shouldn't all of a sudden decide to be stressed by everything.
 

Mahlon

Member
Genetics of most breeder seeds are pretty stable, otherwise they would not be able to sell the seeds. No reason to think that self pollinating the plants (the same way that breeders do) would uncover any genetic instability.
Just for discussion purposes mainly, but a mainstay of modern horticulture and making money off of it, is producing yes a stable product from seed that is uniform to an acceptable degree, but this can be achieved with what is a highly heterozygous (read not true breeding) end product.

Two homozygous strains crossed together to produce a certain line that is sold as seed product is usually how it is done, offering hybrid vigour (heterosis) and usually / hopefully a consistent plant from seed, that has the uniformity that is within the acceptable standards.

Personally, I haven't ever ordered seeds or grown any produced by them, but I would imagine they want to preserve their genetics just like other businesses selling seeds :) Hope that helps
 

TaoWolf

Active Member
this is old.. WAY old.

you know, the search feature DOES work pretty good.

peace..
Yeah, colloidal silver home projects are just about up there with the number of DRYING & CURING threads and being annoying huh Ganjaluvr? (j/k with you)
 
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