Possible lockout in soil? Need advice

-5 gallon pots (lots of holes for drainage)
-coast of Maine stonington blend platinum mix
-transplanted into these buckets about one month ago
-watering every 4-5 days with 6.5 ph water
-under 200w led set to 50%
-Clearwater genetics Jelly delicious
- temp 72-80 degrees
- humidity 40-60%

I haven’t given the plants any extra nutes. This soil seems to be just way too hot for them, but I figured by now they would grow into it. They’re struggling and looking worse. Leaves curled upward and brown patches that slowly eat away at the leaves until they die. The upper half of the plants are also losing color and a pale yellowish green. I considered mg deficiency so I sprayed them w Epsom salt foliar mix (1tsp/gallon).

Not sure what else to do at this point. Advice really appreciated.

Have they always looked like that? Or when did this problem start developing?

How do you gauge when to water? And how much do you give them at a time? And what are you using to pH the water? Unless your tap pH is crazy high, I don't think you need to adjust it in organic soil.

I’m lifting the bucket and watching the leaves (waiting for slight wilt) to decide when to water.

The problems started about 5 weeks ago. I was definitely overwatering them then because my drainage holes were way too small. I was watering about half a gallon each plant every third day. Now it’s half a gallon each plant every 5-6 days.

I’m lowering ph w GH ph down. Tap comes out around 7.3.

inlovewthecoco said:

I’m lifting the bucket and watching the leaves (waiting for slight wilt) to decide when to water.

The problems started about 5 weeks ago. I was definitely overwatering them then because my drainage holes were way too small. I was watering about half a gallon each plant every third day. Now it’s half a gallon each plant every 5-6 days.

I’m lowering ph w GH ph down. Tap comes out around 7.3.

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So it started before you transplanted?

I wouldn't bother pH'ing your tap water. 7.3 out of the tap is pretty dang good, no need to add phosphoric acid to the mix.

If you wait until they are wilting to water every time, it might be too late. Maybe try dividing your watering up into multiple smaller amounts, like a little bit every day or two. Half a gallon every 5-6 days sounds low for plants that size...

Yeah probably partially an overreaction to the overwatering— I’m used to growing in fabric pots and in FFOF. The water retention of the plastic + coast of Maine threw me for a loop at first.

with that said, they are not wilting right now, just burning/crispy. Started right around transplanting, can’t remember if just before or just after.

I’m thinking I may need to transplant into something more neutral

I've transplanted before when I suspected something was wrong with the soil or potting mix. The problem with transplanting is transplant shock. You'll be looking at 2 to 4 weeks of stalled growth.

You might try a super flush. By that I mean simulate a soaking rain: enough water and enough time in contact with the potting mix that it dilutes the problem ingredients. If it's successful, you'll have flushed a bunch of nutrients out of the mix, and may need to supplement with fertilizer.

simpleleaf said:

I've transplanted before when I suspected something was wrong with the soil or potting mix. The problem with transplanting is transplant shock. You'll be looking at 2 to 4 weeks of stalled growth.

You might try a super flush. By that I mean simulate a soaking rain: enough water and enough time in contact with the potting mix that it dilutes the problem ingredients. If it's successful, you'll have flushed a bunch of nutrients out of the mix, and may need to supplement with fertilizer.

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I hardly ever get transplant shock even going from DWC clones to coir? If the plants get stalled for 2 to 4 weeks I believe something else might be wrong? To hot mix maybe and/or subpar watering practices?

I think OP's main problem is watering practice and letting the pots dry out to much between waterings and letting the plant sit in runoff. You should be able to water and/or fed everyday with that mix.

Watering every 4th to 5th day is a recipe for disaster, you cause pH fluctuations and high EC spikes at dry outs. You want to aim for even values, then you have to keep the medium at a more optimal even moisture level by feeding/watering more often then you currently do.

Raising the pots and create better aeration around and under the pots really helps.

Yeah watering can be a bit hard to dial in in soil. I've gotten pretty good at it in small containers, but for big plants I use SIP's, which has really taken the guesswork out of it.

Stonington blend is definitely "hot" (hot enough that they put NPK values on the bag), but it shouldn't be too much for mature plants. I agree with Wastei that it's probably moisture stress.

If the soil is completely dry to the point where you're seeing wilting, it should be able to absorb about 1/4 the total volume in water. 1/2 gallon to a 5-gallon pot seems pretty light to me, I'd try giving it a full gallon next watering, and let it sit in the runoff for an hour or so to soak it up and clear out any hydrophobic spots.

Good luck, hopefully you can get them sorted out!

weedstoner420 said:

Yeah watering can be a bit hard to dial in in soil. I've gotten pretty good at it in small containers, but for big plants I use SIP's, which has really taken the guesswork out of it.

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Guessing an SIP in some kind of schedule? Is there a link you can point me to?

Thanks for the advice guys I’ve been pulling my hair out this grow.

inlovewthecoco said:

Guessing an SIP in some kind of schedule? Is there a link you can point me to?

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SIPs are the shit for organic/living soil. Lots of diy ones in that thread but there are also some commercially produced ones, I think your can even find them at home depot or Lowes. Here's the kind I use: https://www.agardenpatch.com/

weedstoner420 said:

SIP thread -- (Sub-Irrigated Planter)

Sub-irrigated planter From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Sub-Irrigated Planter Sub-irrigated planter (SIP) is a generic name for a special type of planting box used in container gardening and commercial landscaping. A SIP is any method of watering plants where the water is introduced from...

www.rollitup.org

SIPs are the shit for organic/living soil. Lots of diy ones in that thread but there are also some commercially produced ones, I think your can even find them at home depot or Lowes. Here's the kind I use: https://www.agardenpatch.com/

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Will definitely try one of these for my next grow. Thanks!


I just watered both plants w/ .75 gallons each. There was a little runoff but nothing crazy. Will update here in a few days. Thanks again for the suggestions

Still not great, but definitely looking better

Watered them this morning. Plants look about the same (it's only been 2 days, so no surprise there).

I'm like a month past when I planned to flip, and I accidentally watered to runoff last time, so I'm worried about running into deficiencies if I keep vegging them for a lot longer. On the other hand, I don't feel great flipping the plants when they have so many burnt tips and yellow marks. Should I keep vegging them and figure out deficiencies later, or should I flip now and hope they keep improving?

inlovewthecoco said:

I just watered both plants. There was a little runoff but nothing crazy.
Still not great, but definitely looking better

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Great! That's the right watering habit to practice and form.

inlovewthecoco said:

Watered them this morning. Plants look about the same (it's only been 2 days, so no surprise there).

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Careful you don't overwater. 2 days isn't much of a stretch. Not for a 5 gallon pot and plants that size.
Another day or two wouldn't hurt, until they get a bit larger.

inlovewthecoco said:

I'm like a month past when I planned to flip, and I accidentally watered to runoff last time, so I'm worried about running into deficiencies

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Regardless of when you flip or how you water, you will need to feed them at some point.
They look it now to be honest. Look all-round hungry.
(notice the manufacturer states using a 15 gallon pot)

You should be watering to runoff each and every time you water. Just a little bit. As you did above and they looked better afterward.
I'm personally not so sure it's hot mix you're dealing with since it's been a month transplanted. And they've obviously grown and gotten larger in that time.
I want to suggest it might be an aeration issue, causing you to overwater. And if the mix was hot to start with, that would have made things worse off too.

I'd be adding perlite to any mix you buy without hesitation. Whether soil or hydro, nutrients or water. Only the amount of aeration added should change accordingly.

Run DTW hydro myself. Using a mix of Canna Terra pro and 80% perlite. Watering once per day.
Every couple days with smaller pots, seedlings and small cuttings.

Plants really don't need that much water at any given moment. (They really don't)
But they hate sitting in it.
Structure of your grow mix is really important.

I personally don't think you have any lockout from a hot mix. And recommend you implement some feed. Needs a bit of everything.
I personally think the general wilt and symptoms in your original pics were the result of overwatering. Soggy roots.

Get a wet vacuum to easily clean up any runoff, if you haven't already.
Never let the pots sit in runoff. (Just as bad and a little worse than no run off at all)

Good luck!

Best option to increase aeration at this point? Maybe more holes on the pots?

yeah I usually add a lot of perlite to soil but the coast of Maine site said “no need to add perlite!”. I shouldn’t have believed That

i didn’t water 2 days apart, just the pics are two days apart. this week I’ve watered every third with like1/2 to 2/3rds gallon each pot

inlovewthecoco said:

Best option to increase aeration at this point? Maybe more holes on the pots?

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Not much you can really do. More so for next-time.
I'd personally just keep watering until runoff and get a good all-rounder for npk. Organic or otherwise.
GL.

inlovewthecoco said:

this week I’ve watered every third with like1/2 to 2/3rds gallon each pot

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Every third may still be a little often. But in all you'll be the best to judge or tell.

This has gotta be the most sensitive strain I've ever grown. Leaves were finally looking solid green and I was getting ready to flip and now I'm having new symptoms. Judging by the Cervantes guide it looks like phosphorous excess to me, but that would be surprising given that I've just been feeding Dr Earth dry 4-4-4 per instructions. Can anyone confirm? I figured she was still hungry because the leaves never got to a fully evergreen or whatever color. They look a bit light still and the tips arent burnt like usual nute burn.

I've been giving about .75 gallons per pot with yucca powder to make the soil less hydrophobic ever 2-3 days. Also been treating with nematodes for a gnat issue and fish shit for benes.