Pollen Chuckers vs. Real breeders
genuity
Well-Known Member
Breeders/hacks=money=they make what the market demand is
Chucker=Genuity=I make what I like to grow/smoke=if you see me grow it & want some then just ask=money is the last thing..
People that work genetics =takes forever=they pick what they like to lock down=loss of money and/or money was of no concern.
Chucker=Genuity=I make what I like to grow/smoke=if you see me grow it & want some then just ask=money is the last thing..
People that work genetics =takes forever=they pick what they like to lock down=loss of money and/or money was of no concern.
too larry
Well-Known Member
Welcome to RUI. And thanks for bring this old dead thread back to life. I got to see comments from my old buddy Sour Wreck.
@Sour Wreck, if you're out there watching, thanks. I just smoked some Epave de Raisin. Gorille de Raisin x Sour Wreck. Not too bad.
too larry
Well-Known Member
I need seeds to grow, so I make seeds. I pick the best possible male, but sometimes there is only one good male. So I'm firmly in the chuckers camp.
I do open pollinate some of my plants, and I never want more than one male per patch. I've had a couple of three "who's your daddy?" strains over the years, but its not what I set out to do. I like knowing the ancestry.
That said, my best strains the last two years has been grab bag seeds, Random Bud x TPD. A buddy hit everything in his greenhouse with a cut of the Triple Purple Dojo male Doc was working with a few years back. He gifted me a bunch partial packs of Lost River and BOG seeds, and included a few of those that had missed getting labeled. They turned out as good or better than any of the other gear so far.
I treat each seed like it;s own strain, but when grown side by side, you can group them pretty easy. #11 and 12 were the same, {Tween as possible strain name?} and #5 {from last year} and 13 were the same. {Prime?} I hit #11, 12 and 13 Random Bud X TPD with Jack Herer x Shit/skunk. Calling them Triple Jack.
Last year I made #1RBxTPD X Glued Cherry Dojo. {the same TPD male is the daddy in the GCD. There are some GCD seeds in the grab bag too} I can't stop calling the GCD glazed cherry donuts, so the new strain is random glazed donuts for now.
LarsVegasNirvana
Well-Known Member
Open pollination doesn't just mean pollinating outside, it means more than one male per patch. The way they grow in nature.
Each plant is it's own strain, especially since everyone uses clones and we literally have zero breeders who give enough fucks to produce a stable hybrid. In my opinion that means we have no breeders at all. Once we have real breeders you'll know it because nobody will use clones anymore unless they're growing some retro strain.
antonioverde
Well-Known Member
You can sell more seeds on hype than you can line breeding. You got guys like ethos inventing marketing terms and actually selecting from easily intersexed plants then blowing up. Copycat genetics selling bastard cookie crosses as RKS getting 250 a pack and the list goes on. It's up to the consumer to be as discerning as he wants to be.
A line breeder could give two shits about that. Many do not give a fuck about releasing their work and why would they? Look what the world does ha.
If you can find real inbred work snap it up because you are lucky it's even out. You can spend a decade inbreeding to get a homozygous line, the reward would not equal the time if you are looking at it financially. If it did the packs would go for thousands. Even if people paid that he wouldnt care. If money motivated him he would have crossed everything and made a fortune off the ill informed ha.
A capitalist may look at the situation and say you're a stupid old hippie for not feeding the market what it wants.
Tom Hill said the best weed on the planet is probably being grown in some dudes closet and nobody even knows. He is probably right ha.
A line breeder could give two shits about that. Many do not give a fuck about releasing their work and why would they? Look what the world does ha.
If you can find real inbred work snap it up because you are lucky it's even out. You can spend a decade inbreeding to get a homozygous line, the reward would not equal the time if you are looking at it financially. If it did the packs would go for thousands. Even if people paid that he wouldnt care. If money motivated him he would have crossed everything and made a fortune off the ill informed ha.
A capitalist may look at the situation and say you're a stupid old hippie for not feeding the market what it wants.
Tom Hill said the best weed on the planet is probably being grown in some dudes closet and nobody even knows. He is probably right ha.
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genuity
Well-Known Member
Very said..
Dankman_420
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the welcome! I'll be chucking some pollen soon for my personal stash. I'm enjoying the banter on here. It's a lively bunch
There is a HUGE difference been Chuckers and Breeders!
Breeders spend countless years improving on their strains until they are perfect. They often spend large parts of their lives creating their genetics. They have a hard enough time selling their seeds with seed banks undercutting the price of the seeds directly from the breeders and it's not fair.
Then there are chuckers. Chucking is fine when you do it for yourself and don't make a living off of crossing other breeders' works of art to another breeder's work of art and then selling it at $80 a pack. Cucking is like riding a moped; it's fun until someone catches you riding it. The worst-case scenario is Greenpoint Seeds. They never asked for permission from JJ-NYC, got chased out of the first event they ever attended, and never went back. They didn't have the decency to give a percentage to any of the breeders whose strains they used in making their chucked crosses. They literally take on a really popular strain and cross it with another dank strain. Both strains are the works of other breeders though. They make millions because nobody knows this, understands, or they just don't want to know. They are one of the few seed banks taking cards and many have been forced to use them recently. Greenpoint Seeds is just one of the few still standing and it is because nobody seems to care anymore but the breeders.
When you buy from a place like Greenpoint Seeds, you are just saying that it's okay for anyone to steal anyone else's work and profit from it.
Yeah, it's just a plant, but genetics should be protected and their breeders should have some say in who else can profit off their years and generations of work.
Breeders spend countless years improving on their strains until they are perfect. They often spend large parts of their lives creating their genetics. They have a hard enough time selling their seeds with seed banks undercutting the price of the seeds directly from the breeders and it's not fair.
Then there are chuckers. Chucking is fine when you do it for yourself and don't make a living off of crossing other breeders' works of art to another breeder's work of art and then selling it at $80 a pack. Cucking is like riding a moped; it's fun until someone catches you riding it. The worst-case scenario is Greenpoint Seeds. They never asked for permission from JJ-NYC, got chased out of the first event they ever attended, and never went back. They didn't have the decency to give a percentage to any of the breeders whose strains they used in making their chucked crosses. They literally take on a really popular strain and cross it with another dank strain. Both strains are the works of other breeders though. They make millions because nobody knows this, understands, or they just don't want to know. They are one of the few seed banks taking cards and many have been forced to use them recently. Greenpoint Seeds is just one of the few still standing and it is because nobody seems to care anymore but the breeders.
When you buy from a place like Greenpoint Seeds, you are just saying that it's okay for anyone to steal anyone else's work and profit from it.
Yeah, it's just a plant, but genetics should be protected and their breeders should have some say in who else can profit off their years and generations of work.
PopAndSonGrows
Well-Known Member
Damn for real??? I'm super new at this and still learning who's who, so to speak. Wow. That sucks, i had a pack of Tomahawks i wanted to pop. But, i care about supporting shine or shit. So, wow. Damn.
hillbill
Well-Known Member
Send me that pack of Tomahawk, I will bear your guilt.
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Intellectual property rights are nearly impossible to defend. I'm not sure they exist.
For instance, the first guy who made a campfire and then threw some scraggly cannabis plants on it and inhaled the fumes...do we all owe him some clam shells?
Fraud is a crime, in that it intentionally deceives. However, unless a seed supplier stipulates you are only renting seeds and the buyer specifically agrees. making other seeds (pollen chucking) from purchased seeds does not deprive the original "breeder" of any property. Pollen chuckers are not all thieves and should feel no remorse for pollen chucking.
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Property is usually tangible, physical and distinct from other pieces of property. Intellectual property is not and exists as thoughts, ideas or abstractions which are not unique or tangible.
It's possible for two people to hold similar thoughts on something, without dispossessing another person of a unique thing known as "property".
It can be uncomfortable for two people to try to use the same tooth brush at once though. A tooth brush is property. The idea for brushing teeth is not. The idea of sharing a singular tooth brush simultaneously with another person is sort of a refutation of "intellectual property".
Intellectual property is not actual tangible property, and to hold the same thought as another person does not rise to a crime. Now I'm gonna go brush my teeth.
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I know that rights are almost impossible to enforce, even for plants. I am just saying that I think we should enforce them and make our decisions on them based on our morals, and do the best we can. What I wrote was my own feelings about seed banks and how the real breeders behind the scenes are not making what they should. I have talked to many breeders and what they sell their seeds to the seed banks for, well, it's sad in some cases. Most breeders don't have the time or energy to also set up a full-on e-commerce business, market it, etc. Breeding is hard. So many have to use the seed banks. But in the case of a real seed bank versus a chucking seed bank, well that's just wrong. They are taking the strains from the breeders who spent so much time on them in many cases, and are basically just selling them as their own. Grow the breeder's seeds all you want, after you buy a pack from them or a seed bank selling their seeds. Grow your plants, clone them and grow as many as you want for as long as you want. Sell the bud. Breeders are pretty much all in agreement with these practices. But don't make seeds from their genetics and resell them. That's not right. Some might even argue that the breeders deserve more. I personally think a small portion of any sold crop from a breeder's work should go back to them. Something reasonable, but something. That is not the case though and breeders are fine with the way things are. But chuckers that sell seeds are literally making money off someone else's work.
I personally believe chucker banks like Greenpoint Seeds and the others should only sell what they create. Or at least ask for permission, or at the very least offer at least 75% of their earnings (or 85%). They don't have to do any of the hard parts. They just take two of the best strains and cross them, bundle up the seeds and sell them. What about all the hard work that went into those genetics? If a breeder wants to collaborate with another breeder and cross their genetics, that's up to them. Greenpoint Seeds barely ever uses their own images, they pick images off of Instagram of the mother plants and then use them. You can tell by looking for the credits of the image and backtracking them. They are only images of the mother plant. They have gotten so greedy, they don't even take time to grow out their genetics. Why else wouldn't they have a single nice image of the cross they just made to use? Because they haven't even grown out the cross themselves. They make us pay ridiculous amounts of money to test them. Whichever ones get the least complaints get to stay in their lineup. Back in the day, they at least grew their plants out and took pictures of them to use on the product pages.
They have gotten so greedy that they don't even take the time to test their own genetics. They are betting on the stable genetics they stole to create even more. And when they don't, they stop selling them. Stay away from Greenpoint Seeds. They are the worse. Yeah, some of their strains really are great, but not because of Greenpoint because of the breeders they stole their genetics from.
Someone needs to start a Teamsters for the breeders. A Breedsters if you will. Some way to protect the breeders from places like Greenpoint Seeds stealing their hard-earned work.
I personally believe chucker banks like Greenpoint Seeds and the others should only sell what they create. Or at least ask for permission, or at the very least offer at least 75% of their earnings (or 85%). They don't have to do any of the hard parts. They just take two of the best strains and cross them, bundle up the seeds and sell them. What about all the hard work that went into those genetics? If a breeder wants to collaborate with another breeder and cross their genetics, that's up to them. Greenpoint Seeds barely ever uses their own images, they pick images off of Instagram of the mother plants and then use them. You can tell by looking for the credits of the image and backtracking them. They are only images of the mother plant. They have gotten so greedy, they don't even take time to grow out their genetics. Why else wouldn't they have a single nice image of the cross they just made to use? Because they haven't even grown out the cross themselves. They make us pay ridiculous amounts of money to test them. Whichever ones get the least complaints get to stay in their lineup. Back in the day, they at least grew their plants out and took pictures of them to use on the product pages.
They have gotten so greedy that they don't even take the time to test their own genetics. They are betting on the stable genetics they stole to create even more. And when they don't, they stop selling them. Stay away from Greenpoint Seeds. They are the worse. Yeah, some of their strains really are great, but not because of Greenpoint because of the breeders they stole their genetics from.
Someone needs to start a Teamsters for the breeders. A Breedsters if you will. Some way to protect the breeders from places like Greenpoint Seeds stealing their hard-earned work.
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Name a "breeder" that hasn't made seeds they sold where the breeder dIdn't acquire the original stock from somebody else.
Using others images (pictures) and representing them as your own, is fraud. No disagreement there. That's not the same thing as making seeds from seeds you already own though.
I also agree there could be a difference in breeders and pollen chuckers, but that has no bearing on the ownership of the seeds each is using. Either they both own their own seeds or they don't. Just because a "breeder" works a line longer doesn't mean he owns the seeds more than a pollen chucker.
It's like owning a mongrel dog or a purebreed. The repeatability of physical characteristics isn't an aspect of ownership. Old Muttly is still your dog just the same as Baron Von Shepherd III the registered purebred but not all the puppies he's sired and you've sold. Now if Old Muttly fucks your purebred poodle. that's just old Muttly being a dog, Dog! Lol.
If you own seeds, you also own any other seeds you make from the original seeds. If you sell the seeds you've made, somebody else now owns them, no?
If you think a portion of any sold crop should go back to breeders, should breeders pay the various people in the villages where the original land race stock came from ?
"Hey Aazaar, I just got a check from some pot seed infidel guy in America" - Some Afghani guy living in a rock hut
"That's great, let's go chop some heads off of guys for using our images frauduently " - The other Afghani guy
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thenotsoesoteric
Well-Known Member
Dj short owes, karma owes, Ace owes, sensi owes, Dutch passion owes....
Nothing is original. Everything "breeders" do is built off thousands of years of selection from early humanity.
The market decides if people spend years working a strain vs pump out as many hybrids as possible. Right now the market wants variety, the newest, the prettiest etc... no way any "breeder" could keep up with that demand unless it is a corporate enterprise. No one wants that but a handful of people too scared to pheno hunt or buy clones.
Nothing is original. Everything "breeders" do is built off thousands of years of selection from early humanity.
The market decides if people spend years working a strain vs pump out as many hybrids as possible. Right now the market wants variety, the newest, the prettiest etc... no way any "breeder" could keep up with that demand unless it is a corporate enterprise. No one wants that but a handful of people too scared to pheno hunt or buy clones.