pics & good details... plz help diagnose!

noticed some very slight yellowing of some of the bottom leaves on saturday night... left for vacation and returned tonight to find my plants in the condition you see in the pics below. i really thought i wasn't overwatering, but who knows... might have more to do with miracle grow.

here are the grow conditions:
indoor, basement grow in soil (miracle grow)
400w mh 18/6 (bulb 10 in. from top of tallest plant)
85-87 avg deg f (daytime)
60-70% avg humidity (daytime)
water 2 or 3 days (from the tap, sits out in containers at least 24 hrs to stabilize)... just tested it for the first time with a pool test kit, and unless i've misread the results, there's no chlorine, but the ph is VERY acidic! like 8+
tallest plant 4.5 in
about 18-19 days since planting seedlings

is it overwatering? i let the soil dry to the point that it pulls away from the sides of the containers before i rewater. i realize that everytime i water, it releases the nutes within miracle grow and feeds the plant... which could be causing nute-burn...

i have b'cuzz cocosubstrate and ew castings and ff grow big, just have to repot, i was thinkin tomorrow. should i try to gently shake as much mg from the root balls when i repot?

sorry if this is the same ol shit... i checked out the grow faq and also searched posts with keywords, but it's hard not to second guess oneself as a newbie. thanks in advance for any help.

if i had to guess, it looks like the symptoms of overwatering. do i seem like i'm on track here?

seems like the plants aren't growing as much as they should be- forgot to mention i also have co2boost set on high and plugged into the light timer. stunted growth can happen with overwatering, right?

i don't think the light is too close, or the tops would look bad... the tops look good.

of course, the ph of the water seems way out of control, so maybe that is what is causing the problem

or, maybe it's just the "perfect storm" of bad conditions...

anyone have an opinion about this?

i have seen other cases just like this and it might be to much water or nute burn

transplant your plants..! and make sure you water with ph`ed water 6.7 - 6.8

No feed/nutes as the new soil with have all thats needed for 2+ weeks

If you have some supperthrive ? you will want to add a drop of that to the first watering after transplant.

This should stop the yellowing, though the leaves that are already yellow will stay just that... yellow.

Just make sure that the new growth coming through is green

Does look like some nute burn, possibly do to locking up with your pH. Do you stick your finger into your pots to check if the plants are wet before you H20? Don't disturb the root ball anymore than you have too, it only causes more transplant shock. If the plants are already wet from your last watering I would wait a couple days 'til they dry out some and after the repotting I'd leach and not add nutes. GL HH

LoveIt said:

400w mh 18/6 (bulb 10 in. from top of tallest plant)

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10 inches? rediculous!

LoveIt said:

water 2 or 3 days (from the tap, sits out in containers at least 24 hrs to stabilize)... just tested it for the first time with a pool test kit, and unless i've misread the results, there's no chlorine, but the ph is VERY acidic! like 8+

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Bang goes all the dissolved oxygen!

LoveIt said:

is it overwatering?

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No, it's under fertilisation. Your soils shit - replant them into some decent soil, and move that light up to a safe distance of about 18 inches to two feet, and don't bother with letting your water stand there's very little chlorine to evaporate and what there is doesn't harm plants.

HumboldtHunny said:

Does look like some nute burn, possibly do to locking up with your pH.

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Where do you get that from? And who says his ph is causing lockout?

thanks for your input, everyone!

what babygrow says about not bothering to let the water sit out is interesting... i definitely see the point about losing the oxygen, that's bad, but the other thing that i discovered has to do with the ph level.

like i said, i tested the ph and the chlorine levels of the water that had been sitting out with a pool test kit, and found no chlorine, but a VERY high ph...

soooo... i decided to test the water as soon as it came out of the tap, to see how much chlorine is really in my water. guess what?: no measurable chlorine AND the ph looks to be right about at 6.8. the ph seems to rise when it sits... i've even tried different containers to see if that has something to do with it.

i know the chlorine levels in tap water can fluctuate seasonally, so i'll have to keep my eyes on it, but for now, the water is perfect straight out of the tap.

babygro said:

No, it's under fertilisation. Your soils shit - replant them into some decent soil, and move that light up to a safe distance of about 18 inches to two feet, and don't bother with letting your water stand there's very little chlorine to evaporate and what there is doesn't harm plants.

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okay, i'll try those things, thanks...

i knew i was pushing the light distance, but the babies seemed to be happilly getting bushy, so i've just been letting it stay as long as i could get away with it.

i'm going to repot them now, and we'll see if i can get their health turned around.

In answer to your questions. Picture #4 & 5 has some leaf tip (edge) burn starting, I was under the impression that was a symptom of nute burn. Question #2: LoveIt stated him/herself the pH was out of whack. I'm glad he retested and found out it was OK. HH

LoveIt said:

thanks for your input, everyone!

what babygrow says about not bothering to let the water sit out is interesting... i definitely see the point about losing the oxygen, that's bad, but the other thing that i discovered has to do with the ph level.

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The ph level will fluctuate as Carbon Dioxide and Oxygen evaporate from the water as it changes the overall hydrogen content percentage, and as I'm sure you're aware, Ph stands for 'parts of hydrogen'.

Chlorine may be present in the water, but the small amounts used won't harm the plants. In any case it depends entirely on whether your water supplier is even using Chlorine as a preservative, some have switched over to Chloramines which cannot be evaporated from water, only removed via reverse osmosis.

In any case, you can do more harm than good trying to change the ph of the water with acidic ph up and down as this can harm the beneficial bacteria living in the soil.

Compost and soil for the most part are self ph buffering. That means the compost or soil comes with its own ph and that ph will not move very much either way, regardless of the ph value of the irrigation water. Obviously this is a generalism, if using extremely acidic or alkaline irrgation water then the move in ph would be quicker, but even still given the frequent repottings plants now get the ph movement would still take too long to affect the nutrient uptake of the plants.

In my experience on here and elsewhere and growing practically, ph problems account for a tiny percentage of growers problems, yet it's the first thing people look at when a problem arises? Why? Deficiencies due to depleted soil, inapropriate soil, insufficient feeding, over feeding, over and under watering and insect infestations by far account for the most problems.

HumboldtHunny said:

In answer to your questions. Picture #4 & 5 has some leaf tip (edge) burn starting, I was under the impression that was a symptom of nute burn.

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It also looks a lot like Phosphorous def to me, although burn and def can look quite similar. Given that his lower leaves are yellowing rather suggests that deficicncies are at work here rather than burn.

HumboldtHunny said:

Question #2: LoveIt stated him/herself the pH was out of whack.

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Out of whack ph shoudn't make the slighest bit of difference to a soil grow and the deficiencies (if they are deficiciencies) seen aren't consistent with out of whack ph.

Out of whack ph and nutrient burn? Doesn't make sense to me, sorry. Unless, the soil he's using has those little slow release fertiliser capsules that release too much of the wrong nutrient and not enough of the right and that could well be causing this problem, but it still isn't a ph issue.

hey man we started the same time same age so i took a pic of mine today to show how its going since there might have been mold on the top over a week away i had to top it so its pretty short but growing in bushy and big fat leaves. today its 22days old.

wutter said:

hey man we started the same time same age so i took a pic of mine today to show how its going since there might have been mold on the top over a week away i had to top it so its pretty short but growing in bushy and big fat leaves. today its 22days old.

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excellent, wutter- thanks for the pics- hope it's a girl- good luck with your grow!

saw your pics of the black leaves before you topped it- nice save! and you probably just increased your harvest...