Ph problem in dwc

Tattoodgirl

Tattoodgirl

Member
So just started a new doc. 20 gallon with three sweet tooth clones, going to try scrog net. Supernatural notes ultimate thrive and aqua bloom. Was given bloom by accident last time but it worked great so we are sticking with it. A grower friend of mine told me is had a mag deficiency so I put in a tbs of Epsom salt. Did a of liar feed as well. Yesterday I checked ph which supernatural usually buffers and always has and it was 8.5 added some distiller vinegar, stirred around and it was 6. Checked this morning and it was back to 8.5 wth is going on? Have never had this happen before. Plant roots are exploding but leaves are looking not so good. Cut one way back this morning. So I'm thinking note lockout because of ph but not sure how to fix it. Using same water source as last time as well. Any ideas please? I will try to post a pic
 
Jimdamick

Jimdamick

Well-Known Member
I would change the res right now, and that was a lot of Epsom salts to add in one dose in my opinion for a mg def. That might helped cause such a large fluctuation in your PH,and I would consider using Calmag instead of the salts in the future. as it provides Cal also, which is needed. If after a flush you still have a PH problem then that would point to the nutes you are using.Just use the grow stuff for awhile and see if that helps. Good luck
 
Fykshun

Fykshun

Active Member
Just out of curiosity, I think I read below that your roots were exploding in the 8ph solution...that seems bizarre in and of itself - what kind of meter are you using? When did you last callibrate? I killed a batch of clones due to a bad meter that had me chasing ghost problems (aka, as usual, I was the problem). If you don't already have and use, I would snag a cheapo liquid drop kit for ph'ing and every so often (maybe once a week) compare your meter read to the ph testing solution read. Anyhow, good luck, and peace! Oh, and I'm an ink freak, so I dig yer moniker.
 
Nizza

Nizza

Well-Known Member
you got the hard part mastered (white root growth)
that whole plant looks sad though, looks to me you aren't giving enough N food,

a good ratio to try to get around is 3-1-2 NPK

if those are growstone i'm pretty sure those provide some silicates.

if using silicates you can also use carbo loads. carbo loads increase weight and taste but weaken branches, and silica product fix that because they make those soft stems more pliable, and much stronger.

maybe the ph is changing from the growstones or just because the plant is taking up the water and leaving behind the nutes (barely taking PK cause lack of N)
 
Tattoodgirl

Tattoodgirl

Member
Jimdamick said:
I would change the res right now, and that was a lot of Epsom salts to add in one dose in my opinion for a mg def. That might helped cause such a large fluctuation in your PH,and I would consider using Calmag instead of the salts in the future. as it provides Cal also, which is needed. If after a flush you still have a PH problem then that would point to the nutes you are using.Just use the grow stuff for awhile and see if that helps. Good luck
Click to expand...
Everything I read said a tsp per gallon which would be 15 tsp! I went with 1 tbs thinking I was going low on the salt :( I can't get the cal mag yet and may not be able to haul water for a couple days :( but will ASAP. I just can't imagine it's the nutes because I have always used these and they buffer the ph beautifully never had to adjust my ph with these before grrrrr
 
Tattoodgirl

Tattoodgirl

Member
Fykshun said:
Just out of curiosity, I think I read below that your roots were exploding in the 8ph solution...that seems bizarre in and of itself - what kind of meter are you using? When did you last callibrate? I killed a batch of clones due to a bad meter that had me chasing ghost problems (aka, as usual, I was the problem). If you don't already have and use, I would snag a cheapo liquid drop kit for ph'ing and every so often (maybe once a week) compare your meter read to the ph testing solution read. Anyhow, good luck, and peace! Oh, and I'm an ink freak, so I dig yer moniker.
Click to expand...
I know that's what is weird. When I got the clones the roots were barely out of the plug, to be honest I thought they sucked lol but a week later some are a foot or so long out the pot, that's what I don't get. I checked with liquid ph so it's not a meter issue. Was running nutes at 250 ppm to take it easy on them, maybe if I add a little more it would buffer better? Idk it's driving me crazy! And thanks :) can't wait to get more ink soon, never enough lol
 
Nizza

Nizza

Well-Known Member
oh yeah also forgot to mention you add cal mag first when mixing, unless using a silicate (which you mix first because it will turn into plastic when you pour it into nutrient water), you'd do the silicate first. The cal-mag raises the pH slowly, and is important to add it first because of the way it changes the pH vs how the base nutes change your pH. after base nutes then i add additives, stir it up good, and wait. then i take my reading and add pH adjustment and then wait. now it should be good or i repeat
Also distilled vinegar is a big no-no, which is where i think your real problem is.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=253664
and if you want to save a fuck load of money...https://www.rollitup.org/do-yourself/375501-diy-ph-down-sulfuric-acid.html for the record yes it's completely safe. You arent using battery acid from a battery that contacted lead, you buy fresh acid and dilute it as said.'

and use safety (acid goggles, gloves, and clothes) the stuff will irritate your skin but not burn you
 
Tattoodgirl

Tattoodgirl

Member
Nizza said:
you got the hard part mastered (white root growth)
that whole plant looks sad though, looks to me you aren't giving enough N food,

a good ratio to try to get around is 3-1-2 NPK

if those are growstone i'm pretty sure those provide some silicates.

if using silicates you can also use carbo loads. carbo loads increase weight and taste but weaken branches, and silica product fix that because they make those soft stems more pliable, and much stronger.

maybe the ph is changing from the growstones or just because the plant is taking up the water and leaving behind the nutes (barely taking PK cause lack of N)
Click to expand...
they are grow stones. The other ones were turning my res red no matter how much I washed them. Used them last time without issue but didn't know they could cause a problem :( My ppm has been consistent which should mean they are taking up equal amount water and nutes. Not sure what you mean by silicates? Will have to look that up. Is there anyway to add just n? Ultimate thrive is 5-0-2 and Aqua is 11-8-18 the aqua is the one that says it buffers, maybe I should put in a tad more, see what it does?
 
Tattoodgirl

Tattoodgirl

Member
Nizza said:
oh yeah also forgot to mention you add cal mag first when mixing, unless using a silicate (which you mix first because it will turn into plastic when you pour it into nutrient water), you'd do the silicate first. The cal-mag raises the pH slowly, and is important to add it first because of the way it changes the pH vs how the base nutes change your pH. after base nutes then i add additives, stir it up good, and wait. then i take my reading and add pH adjustment and then wait. now it should be good or i repeat
Also distilled vinegar is a big no-no, which is where i think your real problem is.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=253664
and if you want to save a fuck load of money...https://www.rollitup.org/do-yourself/375501-diy-ph-down-sulfuric-acid.html for the record yes it's completely safe. You arent using battery acid from a battery that contacted lead, you buy fresh acid and dilute it as said.'

and use safety (acid goggles, gloves, and clothes) the stuff will irritate your skin but not burn you
Click to expand...
geez battery acid scare the hell out of me! So could the Epsom salt still be slowly raising the ph? Shit no vinegar? I read so many things saying it was alright. Always used lemon juice in soil but was afraid to put it in hydro so the vinegar sounded like a good option. Will have to do more research on silicates etc... Damn, I have never had this problem and it's pissing me off! If the grow stones have some silicate how does that work with the cal mag? Will read the vinegar link thanks but now I may be screwed for a couple days until I can get water and let it warm up to temp, blah
 
Tattoodgirl

Tattoodgirl

Member
Well fuck I just read about the vinegar:wall: I have aqua shield and I only put in a small amount of vinegar, should I dose it with that until I can change my water?
 
Tattoodgirl

Tattoodgirl

Member
Okay so I was wondering if the supernatural was bad. I took water I have left in my bucket I haul and tested ph, it is high. Then I added some of the supernatural aqua in and boom! So at least it is buffering. I will try to add more to me res to get it to drop until I can change the water and cross my fingers. Any other ideas? Thanks so much guys, really appreciate it
 

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Ilovebush

Ilovebush

Well-Known Member
Your nutes should put your pH in the right range for hydro...I agree with backing off the epsom salt as well.
 
Tattoodgirl

Tattoodgirl

Member
Ilovebush said:
Your nutes should put your pH in the right range for hydro...I agree with backing off the epsom salt as well.
Click to expand...
Put nutes up to about 520 ppm and my ph went to 7 from 8.5 but I'm going to retest after they have been in a bit before I add anymore. May try to bump up to 600 to get the ph down more. The notes say 700 - 1100 but I have never used close to that. I don't usually go 600 but sweet tooth from what I was told and read likes mag and can handle the higher notes. I think they are locked out right now and not getting crap so trying to lower the ph first. I only added the Epsom salt once so that's good and same for the vinegar, and didn't put much of that in so now if I can just get the damn ph down I might be alright. Thanks
 
C

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
The only way to add pure nitrates is nitric acid. HNO3

In hydro nute recipes, the main sources of N are calcium nitrate and potassium nitrate. Nitrates by itself is an acid.

You can add pure N with ammonium nitrate also, but then you raise your ammonium level which is bad in hydro.

Tattoodgirl said:
Is there anyway to add just n?
Click to expand...
 
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