Ph and Flushing!

GayRioThug

Member

PH & Flushing In Organics

Today I'm going to talk about a controversial issue for organic growers; ph and flushing. Many different organic growers have their different takes on these subjects, so it is only fair that I share mine and you can decide how you will deal with these subjects.


I'll start off with ph. Many of you already know that having the correct ph allows the plant to uptake nutrients in the fastest and most efficient way. Allowing your ph to fluctuate within a certain range makes different elements more and less available. While hydro and soil growers alike battle to keep their ph at optimal levels, many organic growers, myself included, allow the soil to do the work for us. The most important element for organic growers is their soil, and when you have a a diverse and living soil, most of the time ph becomes a non-issue.


I'm not saying that ph doesn't play a vital role in organics, I'm just saying that if you have a balanced ph established in your soil mix, the soil will act as a self regulator. Humates and the microbes themselves will act as buffers. Humates work by chelating nutrients that are out of the correct range, and the beneficial bacteria living in your soil mix can only survive at certain range, so they will help maintain those ranges as their lives depend on it. Adding humates into your soil mix is very important and why most recipes include them. Humates include compost, earthworm castings, compost teas, and bottles humus. I have mentioned some of the benefits of all of these pertaining to different subjects, so their benefits for ph stability is just another piece of the pie. The beneficial bacteria and fungi are constantly secreting acids and bases that regulate ph, so it is of utmost importance that you provide them with the most productive and efficient living environments.


That is why you might here me say that one thing or another isn't organic, and adding these things into your organic soil mix is only making the life of the microbes that much more difficult. Adding substances like ph up/down are only killing the microbes that live in the soil, making you more and more dependent on these substances to get you threw a grow. Instead of worrying about adjusting the solutions you put into the soil, worry about adjusting the ph of your soil before you plant. Dolomite lime is a great thing to use. It works by raising the acidity of most soil mixes to near a 7 ph. Adding the lime into your soil mix and allowing it to buffer the soil, allows you to not worry about the ph of the solutions you put into it. Shell meals can also be used for this same purpose, but the finely ground dolomite lime will make itself available more quickly. For those rare instance when you must lower the ph of your soil mix, it is recommended that one use gypsum. It works in similar ways as the limestone, but rather taking the ph down. But you can never become solely dependent on just one of these; the humates, the microbes, or the lime. Using them in unison is the best way to ensure that the living soil has what it needs to self regulate. It is advised to apply the limestone into your soil mix at a rate of 1-2 TBS per gallon of soil mix, add a humic rich ingredient such as compost or earthworm castings at a rate of atleast 10% of your soil mix, and apply compost and/or earthworm casting teas to your soil on a regular basis.


Some people may still be on the fence of not adjusting the ph of the solutions they put into their soil, and for those people I say go ahead. But don't use chemical substances such as the ph up/down solution you find at your local hydro shop. Use natural substances for this task. Substances such as vinegars, fulvic acids, and lemon/lime juice can be used to lower the ph of your solutions. While baking soda and sulfates are used to raise it. While some may feel better doing this, it is really unnecessary. Create an diverse and living soil, and stop worrying that the ph of your water is too high/low. Let the soil do what it naturally does and you will be one happy grower.


. There is really no need to flush when growing organically. The reason people flush their grows normally is to remove salt buildup and chemicals left by the inorganic ferts they use. But organic fertilizers do not contain salts and the plants aren't taking in the fertilizers you give them, it is the microbes who eat the food(ferts), and the waste from those microbes are what feed the plants. Besides, there is no way to flush these compounds from the soil anyways. I believe that most people who switch from an inorganic method to organic growing simply flush by habit, but there is no need to drown your roots and the microbes. The only time it may be needed to do anything remotely similar to flushing is when you use guanos. And then still it is only needed to add plain water or earthworm castings tea for the last watering or two, not flooding the plants, just watering as usual. There's not much to say on this subject as some people will agree and others won't, and the disagreement lies in simple facts. I have never flushed any of my organic grows, and the taste and quality have always been superb.


I'm not saying that you must follow everything I say, I'm saying this is the way I see it, and many other organic growers see it. Organic growing should be fun and simple, and try to mimic mother nature as much as possible. In nature, there is nothing to adjust ph or flush the soil except the living organisms and the rain, and these things do a great job. Remember K.I.S.S and happy growing.
 

Fluxcap

Active Member
This is funny, I thought my buffered soil would be fine, so I avoided adjusting my PH and now I'm facing all kind of PH problems, that are manifesting in the form of rust spots, and slow twisted new growth caused by a high PH.

I'm using vinegar and never watering with an unbalanced PH again. Once the PH is out of the safe range it's a pain to get it back and it seams to take forever for growth to pick up again, the rust spots seams to spread faster.

And I'm using soil with 1 cup of lime per cubic foot and plenty of microbial enhancement. It's easier to just adjust PH and not have to risk it.
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
This is funny, I thought my buffered soil would be fine, so I avoided adjusting my PH and now I'm facing all kind of PH problems, that are manifesting in the form of rust spots, and slow twisted new growth caused by a high PH.

I'm using vinegar and never watering with an unbalanced PH again. Once the PH is out of the safe range it's a pain to get it back and it seams to take forever for growth to pick up again, the rust spots seams to spread faster.

And I'm using soil with 1 cup of lime per cubic foot and plenty of microbial enhancement. It's easier to just adjust PH and not have to risk it.
Always check pH (knowledge is power), and always flush. Or run blind in the woods at night. Your choice.

To get your pH back to where you want it you will have to overcompensate with a super low pH flush (assuming your soil pH is too high). My rule of thumb: 3x lower than the pH you want. So: say your soil pH is now 7.2, and you want it at 6.5. That is a difference of .7, but pH is not linear so that is actually a huge difference. To adjust you will have to water with a difference of 2.1 (or .7 x 3). This means a flush with a pH of 5.1 (7.2 - 2.1) should get you back on track.

The reason we flush in organics, is to force the plant to live off of its chlorophyll reserves. This does two things:
1) Makes the herb taste better regardless of how it was grow. This has nothing to do with nutrient source and everything to do with removing the 'green'.
2) By removing the chlorophyll, you allow the secondary pigements (yellow, orange, red, purple) to show, better bag appeal and taste.

and flushing is impossible when your soil has slow-release food in it, this really only works for mostly soil-less media with soluble foods. aka new school organics
 

Spanishfly

Well-Known Member
The reason we flush in organics, is to force the plant to live off of its chlorophyll reserves. This does two things:
1) Makes the herb taste better regardless of how it was grow. This has nothing to do with nutrient source and everything to do with removing the 'green'.
2) By removing the chlorophyll, you allow the secondary pigements (yellow, orange, red, purple) to show, better bag appeal and taste.
Total BS, IMHO. Why oh why do I continually read so many different, conflicting reasons as to why this flushing nonsense is a good idea??

Tried an experiment one year - ´flushed´ some plants, left the others alone.

Could detect no difference what ever between them. I would be happy to repeat the experiment and let anyone come to detect the difference to win a 10 grand bet. No takers so far. There´s a surprise.
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
Total BS, IMHO. Why oh why do I continually read so many different, conflicting reasons as to why this flushing nonsense is a good idea??

Tried an experiment one year - ´flushed´ some plants, left the others alone.

Could detect no difference what ever between them. I would be happy to repeat the experiment and let anyone come to detect the difference to win a 10 grand bet. No takers so far. There´s a surprise.
your experiment is in vain, you use slow release. I've also tested this: the market prefers (financially) flushed herb. period.
 

cerberus

Well-Known Member
here we go again with universals.. you always flush a grow! v. you never flush a grow! their both BS.. where are you growing? in an organic outdoor garden? (pretty hard to flush, huh?) 7gal container? 2.5 gal? 30gal? how long did you veg for? how long did you flower? (speedy indica or slow ass sativa)

look all I am saying is its bullshit to post this universal truth of flushing and no PH regulating, and its BS to say you should flush 100% of the time and always regulate your ph. it really depends on where and how your growing..

MHO
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
here we go again with universals.. you always flush a grow! v. you never flush a grow! their both BS.. where are you growing? in an organic outdoor garden? (pretty hard to flush, huh?) 7gal container? 2.5 gal? 30gal? how long did you veg for? how long did you flower? (speedy indica or slow ass sativa)

look all I am saying is its bullshit to post this universal truth of flushing and no PH regulating, and its BS to say you should flush 100% of the time and always regulate your ph. it really depends on where and how your growing..

MHO
agreed. thanks for the clarity.
 

Spanishfly

Well-Known Member
your experiment is in vain, you use slow release. I've also tested this: the market prefers (financially) flushed herb. period.
Don´t be silly - I am an organic grower - wouldn´t touch that chemical rubbish.

And the kids that make up ´the market´ can´t tell the difference either - that is for certan sure.
 

madodah

Well-Known Member
Don´t be silly - I am an organic grower - wouldn´t touch that chemical rubbish.

And the kids that make up ´the market´ can´t tell the difference either - that is for certan sure.
'The market' always reminds me of the adage 'There's a new sucker born every minute'. The only difference now is hucksters using the Internet instead of a wagon to pitch their 'miracle' products and claims.
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
And the kids that make up ´the market´ can´t tell the difference either - that is for certan sure.
I'm talking about the medical dispensary market here in the north bay. That consists of mostly older people who have smoked organics for a lifetime.
 

sandmonkey

Well-Known Member
I still think flushed bud (organic or not) tastes better and smokes smoother. I'll let my plants yellow the f out before chopping.
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
I still think flushed bud (organic or not) tastes better and smokes smoother. I'll let my plants yellow the f out before chopping.
Yes, advanced chlorosis, or mucho yellowing, is what flushing is all about for organics. Gotta get the food out so the plants are forced to feed off of their chlorophyll reserves (green). The fan leaves are just the start to yellowing. I let the yellow go all the way to the buds, including yellowing sugar leaf.
 
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