People with higher IQs are less likely to believe in God, according to a new study.

CrackerJax

New Member
All true tea... It's like looking for a needle in a pile of haystacks.
the fossil records are vastly underwhelming in number compared to the amount created.
out. :blsmoke:
 

Jointsmith

Well-Known Member
If you understood its meaning, you would not take it as a compliment. Crack a book sometime and be amazed.

out. :blsmoke:
Ha ha, been reading Wikipedia have we?

I looked it up, I don't really see how what I'm saying is Circular logic (Especially considering I haven't put forward a proposition to support a proposition)..... I can't help noticing wikipedia uses an Argument concerning God's Existance to demonstate what Circular Logic is...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_logic

BWAHAHAHAHA you looser!!!

Don't just steal arugments off wikipedia that don't even make sense.

You Dolt, thats fucking funny.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
I used to think your ill thought out diatribes were humorous but no longer. You set up your own posits and then answer them. You sir are a tool of the lowest order. Good day to you. Go join the Med Man club. You deserve each other. I certainly don't need wiki which is flawed at best.


out. :blsmoke:
 

Jointsmith

Well-Known Member
OK Dipshit, explain exactly how I have presented Circular Logic?

You bought it up.

(this is your chance to make me look like an idiot...)
 

swishersweetrolla

Active Member
..yea....right we came from rocks colliding and exploding so were filled with bones bloods and organs that function with eachother and happened to be thrown on the only planet according to scientist that can hold life.........but whateeever were all different if we werent that shit would be weird
 

TeaTreeOil

Well-Known Member
I think he was referring to what basically boils down to "[everyone is ignorant] ignorant people [that pretend to know, apparently everyone minus agnostics] are [even more] ignorant".

But, IMO, your message is also ignorant in itself. Which adds hypocrisy to circular reasoning.

Cheers.
 

Roseman

Elite Rolling Society
I have two cents to add.

I accept and profess that the Universe and all of creation that we know of, operates on tens of thousands of PRINCIPLES and LAWS that most of the educated are aware of and we easily accept as facts.

Some examples of these Laws and Principles are the Law of Gravity, for instance. Our planets revolve around the sun, and are held in absolute perfect positions, or they would just fly off into outer space or collide into each other. If we throw a baseball upward into the air, it will return on a downward path that is perfect in relationship to the path it traveled upward. That ball will obey that law.

There is the Law of Procreation. A sperm has to be delivered to and enter the egg at a perfect precise time, to make a new born. Us pot growers know Male Pollen has to enter the female flower at a perfect time to make a new flower.

The Law of CAUSE AND AFFECT, or the Law of CAUSE and EFFECT. We all accept that when we throw a rubber ball on the concrete walkway, that it will bounce back up in a pre-determined direction.. We know the law of Physics if we shoot pool. AND If we line up a standing stack of Dominoes, and push the first one over, the remaining Dominoes will also tumble over. Most of us accept as fact, what goes around, comes around, OR What comes around, goes around, be it a bad cold, or gossip or whatever. IF we strike a person with a harmful blow, the most normal and natural reaction is for that person to strike us back. It's a natural Law. Many of us that are older and wiser also have learned that if we throw a piece of chewing gum on the concrete walkway, we will eventually live to step on a piece of chewing gum thrown on the sidewalk. If we cheat on our spouse, well, we all know what happens. We call it KARMA, or REAP WHAT WE SEW, or the Law of Cause and Effect, or WHAT GOES AROUND, COMES AROUND. We have all experienced that law or principle in action.

There is the Law or Principle of Duality. There is LIGHT and Darkness, Male and Female, Good and Bad, UP and Down, Left and Right, Two eyes, two ears, two lungs, two nostrils, two arms, two hands, two genders, two equal and opposite parts, two equal and exactly the same parts, etc. It is still Duality. Who could argue with this?

The Law of Rythm. The "pendulum swings" manifests in everything. The measure of the swing to the left is the same perfect measure of the swing to the right. This law operates in life quite visibly with people who are bipolar. One day they're up, the next they're down. For most people, the law is realized when they become very, very happy. The law dictates that someday they will be very, very sad. When pain stops, it feel good.

The Law of Cycles. We obseve the perfect cycles of the seasons, the tides and ocean waves, the menstrul cycles of women, the revolving of the plants, Good Times, Bad Times, Good Luck, Bad Luck, The fish are biting, the fish are not biting, Floods and Droughts, the cycle of the Oak tree with it's leaves dying and being born again, the sap rising and lowering in the trees, etc We all accept that life occurs in cycles.

The Laws of Polarity. Everything has its opposite. Again, DARK-LIGHT, MALE-FEMALE. This law helps us to understand the perfect principles of the flow of Electricity, the principles of yin and yang. Some energy attracts and some energy repels. One is not better than the other but both exist equally. I like to think of the astronomical world where one body can capture another by pulling it into its sphere of influence. This principle can be understood in life when we recognize the truth in this saying: If you want him to be more of a man, be more of a woman. If you want to get more, give more.

The Laws of Love. The love you take, is equal to the love you make, or give. (Paul McCartney said it)

The Laws of Vibrations. Atoms, Neutrons, etc Everything vibrates. we ARE ALL connected. Nothing is still. Nothing is NEW. This Law helps us to understand the essence of things. It is this fine network of vibrations that connects us with every other living thing. You might picture it as an invisible world wide web. It is in tune with the vibrations of the universe that we attract and are attracted to every experience in our life. To use a metaphor, suppose you like country and western music. If you set your radio dial to country and western you will not hear classical or jazz music. If you vibrate at a peaceful level, you will not meet people who are violent. Sleep with dogs, get fleas. Hang with gentle people, avoid violence.


The Laws of Mentalism. What we see in this physical world, EVERYTHING THAT EXISTS IN THIS PHYSICAL WORLD, that man made, first existed as a thought. (GETTING DEEP)

The Laws of Attraction, and Repelling.

AND I COULD GO ON AND ON. Like I said there are thousands and thousands of these Laws and Principles that we all accept and beleive.

IF no one ever read a book, and was of average intelligence, he would observe these Laws and Principles in life, in the world that surrounds us and accept them.

These LAWS create, they nurture, they protect, they "cause" , and these LAWS for the most part, operate for the betterment of us all. They seem to operate on LOVE and GIVING, instead of HATE and TAKING. They encourage, and do not discourage. Yea, if we stick our hand in the fire, it burns our hand and hurts, that's a LAW, but it is to protect us from jumping our entire bodies into the fire. These LAWS are operated and caused by FORCES that I think none of us understand. I don't understand my microwave or TV remote, but I still use it.

Regardless of our understanding, these FORCES and LAWS do exist, and people, seekers and philosophers and prophets like Abraham, Moses, Socretes, Pythagoras, Jesus, Mohammed, Budha, Ghandi, etc, studied these LAWS, and gave them a personality, or Idenity, and they shared their meditations and conclusions with us all. A majority of people accept these conclusions, although we do not all accept the same conclusions. These seekers and philosophers and prophets called it THE FORCE, ALMIGHTY POWER, A CREATOR, that they called GOD . They also gave this GOD a personality, a gender, like an enity, called him KING, and other high titles, and they gave it a name; Jehovah, Allah, Zeus, Apollo, etc.

I have come to believe in and accept this Power and Force, and these LAWS and Principles, what I call and we call GOD. They work for me, they serve me well, they give me peace and underestanding. HE works for me, HE serves me well, HE gives me peace and underestanding. I don't have or use any of the suggested names, and I certainly do not accept any particular or specific denomination or religion given by man. But this GOD and the Laws and Principles are worthy of my time and research, my respect and study and meditations. Because of these LAWS and Principles I know what to expect more times than I do not, I have a Power or FORCE to beleive in and LAWS and Principles to count on and rely on and trust in. Just like I know if I throw a ball up into the air, it will return down, I know IF I do good deeds, my life will be better and IF I do mean things, my life will not be better and will be not as good. (CAUSE AND AFFECT) I have learned to chose good over evil, good over bad, light over darkness.

I have sought and searched and researched this subject to the point it almost over took me, more so back in the 70s and 80s. I still do today. I am a very avid reader of Non-fiction, about "where did I come from, why am I here, who made me, created or started me, who is GOD, what is God, and I read at least one to two books a week now about this.
My favorites are THE HISTORY OF GOD, and THE HISTORY OF RELIGION.

I have to ask myself are one half billion Jews wrong, one billion Muslims wrong and one billion Christians wrong, and nearly one quarter billion Hindu and Budhist wrong, for accepting the existance of GOD?
JESUS ?
I easily understand the difficulty with JESUS. we are told in "the Bible" that he was born of a virgin, walked on water, died and came back to life, and was the only man in History to do that. That is hard to beleive. (Yes I know of MIRTHA and pagan's Mithraism and the others who claimed ressurection in mythology)

So was Jesus' life a myth? When I read Josephus, the Roman Historian, all educated people accept and believe his account of Roman History. Historians accept and believe every word he wrote about Roman History, EXCEPT his account of Jesus, his teachings and his death. Josephus wrote that Jesus was a well known, well traveled preacher and teacher that was crucifed by Rome, at eh demand of the Jewish Priests, and that many, "hundreds of his followers" claimed to have seen Jesus after his death.

I have to ask myself how did Jesus and a dozen followers, along with a book composed of many shorter books and stories, convince over a billion people to follow his teachings and beliefs today?

I am amazed to read and study the cause of death of the twelve apostles. Peter AND his wife were brought to Rome, and told "Deny HIM and live, Claim HIM, and be crucified AND WATCH YOUR WIFE BE CRUCIFIED FIRST RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU!" Peter responded, according to Josephus, tht he did not deserve to die like Jesus died, so they crucified him UPSIDE DOWN. PETER DIED ON THE CROSS, AND HIS WIFE TOO, as Peter watched.. WHY didn't Peter and the other apostles just take the easy way out?
(google death of the apostles)

And of the other eleven apostles, ten were given the opportunity to live, or be tortured, burnt at the stake, drawn and quartered, cut in half, stabbed, and they chose DEATH and TORTURE over living. WHY?

FAITH is defined as beleviing in the unseen.
Like I never saw the planet Pluto, or any neutrons, or atoms, or Abraham Lincoln or George Washington. Do you beleive in them? Because they have been revealed to me by others, and proven to me to be real by wiser and more educated and knowledgable people who did the research and study, in books, and stories, I accept them and believe in them. FAITH is just that, FAITH. You accept or you do not.

I have an apple sitting right here on my desk. Do you know whether if it is sweet or sour? Of course not. Why not? Because you have not tasted my apple, no matter what anyone tells you, you do not really, really know how it tastes. But what if a billon others tasted it first, right before your eyes, and told you, it tasted sweet. Wouldn't you lean toward being convinced that it is probably a sweet apple?

Well, I have tasted GOD, as many others have. And I have tasted Jesus. And OHHHH , how sweet He is.

I took an hour and half to write this, so I'm going to post it as a new thread too. Maybe someone will get it.
Now nail me to a tree. I do expect the non-believers to argue and attack.





 

FLoJo

Well-Known Member
TeaTree, dont believe everything you watch on tv and animal planet LOL

yes i agree in evolution of a species.. an adaptation to its environment, however, what i was referring to is the belief that people and animals come from a common ancestor. like humans coming from monkeys.

they claim that there are links between all of the species that are similar to us, however none can be found, no fossils, no bones, no nothing. hell how do we know that they did not devolve from us? the logic is flawed.

they use this argument for fish to reptiles, and all that other stuff, yet there are NO MISSING LINKS that can be found. environmental adaptation is different from the origin of human species that we call evolution.. hell darwin even said he didnt believe his own theory before he died.. go figure


and Rose, while i do feel what you are saying, again, your beliefs are built on faith, not testable, verifiable scientific knowledge that most people are looking for. yes the historical aspect is there and only ignorant people can deny that jesus existed.

but believing that he existed, and believeing that he died on the cross for our sins, rose again, ascended to heaven, and if we do not believe in him that we will burn in eternal fire and damnation in hell (a church creation), are two completely different ideas. in the actual teachings of jesus he never once said that anyone who did not believe, would be punished, he only said those that do have eternal life. he never preached about going to heaven or hell, only morality and spirituality. and the main difficulties that come with religion is the operations around it, not the core beliefs and morals.. ie the corruption of the church, the violence and prejudice, the manipulation of the bible and the people and so on.

now, yes the apostles chose to die for what they believed in but how is that any different from the cults who commit suicide in the name of their leaders? or those who go to battle and die for their country, or pows who chose to get tortured and beaten instead of giving valuable information.. its about principles, right or wrong.

some choose to believe in fatih, while others will believe in cynicism, but right or wrong it is because you are a product of your environment, and your beliefs and principles reflect upon that.
 

Roseman

Elite Rolling Society
FloJo,
I vowed to myself that I'd respond to any inteligent respected poster and post. I respect your post and opinion. I wrote that post just to provide an other side to the coin. I guess I am a New Age Gnostic Universalist, and I think the 2nd biggest enemy God ever had was today's CHURCH.
Let me address some of your post:

your beliefs are built on faith, not testable, verifiable scientific knowledge that most people are looking for. yes the historical aspect is there and only ignorant people can deny that jesus existed.

I agree. Almost all of my beliefs are based on Faith. I think GOD was always there, but MAN made a lot of mistakes trying to reveal Him to us. Especially in their organized religions and churches.

believeing that he died on the cross for our sins, rose again, ascended to heaven, and if we do not believe in him that we will burn in eternal fire and damnation in hell (a church creation), are two completely different ideas. in the actual teachings of jesus he never once said that anyone who did not believe, would be punished, he only said those that do have eternal life. he never preached about going to heaven or hell, only morality and spirituality. and the main difficulties that come with religion is the operations around it, not the core beliefs and morals..

wow, so you've read the Bible? Again, you;re right on. AND I AGREE. Very seldom did Jesus mention Heaven or Hell, and it was never based on WRONG DOINGS, or breaking the Commandments. It was always about NOT doing Good, (visiting the sick, imprisoned, feeding the hungry) and never about DOING BAD OR WRONG.
now, yes the apostles chose to die for what they believed in but how is that any different from the cults who commit suicide in the name of their leaders? or those who go to battle and die for their country, or pows who chose to get tortured and beaten instead of giving valuable information.. its about principles, right or wrong.

WELL, IT IS NOT MUCH DIFFERENT. Flying a plane into the building on 9-1-1, did not make the pilot RIGHT in his beliefs. He died beleiving in his death, he'd get a free go to heaven pass. He also did it for himself.
There are a lot of writings of recorded history, from Jews and Romans, about their deaths. But with the apostles' death, they feared not seeing Jesus again, they feared shame, and they wanted to prove something to the others there. They just could not deny that they saw the living Jesus. Peter could have saved his wife from crucifixtion. Andrew could have ran away instead of being stoned to death. Those are not quick, die in a second deaths as in an airplance crash. It jsut seems to me, after the torture began, they would have given in and yielded to the pain.


My enviroment has led me to be a believer. It's a decision, a choice. I think Jesus was the first hippy, a radical, and some of the words accredited to him were jsut plainly misunderstood by zealots. But I still admire him, I still like to feel his caring for me. I have accepted him as part of my reality. And Budha too. They work for me.



 

Stoney McFried

Well-Known Member
More Americans say they have no religion

A wide-ranging study on American religious life found that the Roman Catholic population has been shifting out of the Northeast to the Southwest, the percentage of Christians in the nation has declined and more people say they have no religion at all.

Fifteen percent of respondents said they had no religion, an increase from 14.2% in 2001 and 8.2% in 1990, according to the American Religious Identification Survey.

Northern New England surpassed the Pacific Northwest as the least religious region, with Vermont reporting the highest share of those claiming no religion, at 34 percent. Still, the study found that the numbers of Americans with no religion rose in every state.

“No other religious bloc has kept such a pace in every state,” the study’s authors said.

In the Northeast, self-identified Catholics made up 36% of adults last year, down from 43% in 1990. At the same time, however, Catholics grew to about one-third of the adult population in California and Texas, and one-quarter of Floridians, largely due to Latino immigration, according to the research.

Nationally, Catholics remain the largest religious group, with 57 million people saying they belong to the church. The tradition gained 11 million followers since 1990, but its share of the population fell by about a percentage point to 25 percent.
Christians who aren’t Catholic also are a declining segment of the country.

In 2008, Christians comprised 76 percent of U.S. adults, compared to about 77% in 2001 and about 86% in 1990. Researchers said the dwindling ranks of mainline Protestants, including Methodists, Lutherans and Episcopalians, largely explains the shift. Over the last seven years, mainline Protestants dropped from just over 17% to 12.9% of the population.

The report from The Program on Public Values at Trinity College in Hartford, Conn., surveyed 54,461 adults in English or Spanish from February through November of last year. It has a margin of error of plus or minus 0.5% points. The findings are part of a series of studies on American religion by the program that will later look more closely at reasons behind the trends.
The current survey, being released Monday, found traditional organized religion playing less of a role in many lives. Thirty percent of married couples did not have a religious wedding ceremony and 27% of respondents said they did not want a religious funeral.

About 12% of Americans believe in a higher power but not the personal God at the core of monotheistic faiths. And, since 1990, a slightly greater share of respondents — 1.2% — said they were part of new religious movements, including Scientology, Wicca and Santeria.

The study also found signs of a growing influence of churches that either don’t belong to a denomination or play down their membership in a religious group.
Respondents who called themselves “non-denominational Christian” grew from 0.1% in 1990 to 3.5% last year. Congregations that most often use the term are megachurches considered “seeker sensitive.” They use rock style music and less structured prayer to attract people who don’t usually attend church.
Researchers also found a small increase in those who prefer being called evangelical or born-again, rather than claim membership in a denomination.
Evangelical or born-again Americans make up 34% of all American adults and 45% of all Christians and Catholics, the study found. Researchers found that 18% of Catholics consider themselves born-again or evangelical, and nearly 39% of mainline Protestants prefer those labels. Many mainline Protestant groups are riven by conflict over how they should interpret what the Bible says about gay relationships, salvation and other issues.

The percentage of Pentecostals remained mostly steady since 1990 at 3.5%, a surprising finding considering the dramatic spread of the tradition worldwide. Pentecostals are known for a spirited form of Christianity that includes speaking in tongues and a belief in modern-day miracles.

Mormon numbers also held steady over the period at 1.4% of the population, while the number of Jews who described themselves as religiously observant continued to drop, from 1.8% in 1990 to 1.2 percent, or 2.7 million people, last year. Researchers plan a broader survey on people who consider themselves culturally Jewish but aren’t religious.

The study found that the percentage of Americans who identified themselves as Muslim grew to 0.6% of the population, while growth in Eastern religions such as Buddhism slightly slowed.



http://www.freep.com/article/20090310/NEWS07/90310012/-1/rss07
 

FLoJo

Well-Known Member
i agree with you Rose great post. I am interpreting your beliefs as more spiritual than religious. I think spirituality is a great thing, and we are spiritual beings, but religion is like a mental prison. I respect your beliefs and i think the world would be a much better place if more people were spiritual, and less religious... +rep

great info Stoney.. seems like for once people are actually thinking about what they are being taught instead of following like sheeple.. maybe there is still hope lol
 

Roseman

Elite Rolling Society
Now I just turned 60 years old, and have been a radical hippie all of my life.
Ask yourself, why would an old hippy man, with 4 years of college and a successful business owner, spend several hours a day, helping newbies that he will never know or meet, grow pot? For REP points ? LOL

Why would I stick my neck out and create this post? I'm just giving, I 'm just paying it forward, I am planting what I want to harvest. I enjoy being liked in oppsoed to being disliked.
How often do you meet a person that genuinely cares?
You just don't know how a pair of shoes will feel, until you try them on.
I wish everyone could taste my apple and try these shoes on first, then see what it feels like.
You'd like it.
 

Stoney McFried

Well-Known Member
I've tasted that apple. With respect, good works come from within a person, not an external entity.Your beliefs only apply to YOU, not anyone else.There is more than one path, and not everyone is on the same one.
 

EKIMRI

Well-Known Member
The same rules apply on any path you choose.

Pay it forward, do unto others... Regardless from whence inspiration springs, in the end doing what's right and doing what's in your own best interest are the same thing. Different paths, same destination.


bongsmiliebongsmiliebongsmilie
 

FLoJo

Well-Known Member
Now I just turned 60 years old, and have been a radical hippie all of my life.
Ask yourself, why would an old hippy man, with 4 years of college and a successful business owner, spend several hours a day, helping newbies that he will never know or meet, grow pot? For REP points ? LOL

Why would I stick my neck out and create this post? I'm just giving, I 'm just paying it forward, I am planting what I want to harvest. I enjoy being liked in oppsoed to being disliked.
How often do you meet a person that genuinely cares?
You just don't know how a pair of shoes will feel, until you try them on.
I wish everyone could taste my apple and try these shoes on first, then see what it feels like.
You'd like it.
well said my friend well said... but we know you do it for the rep points :-P LOL
 
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