Discussion in 'Spirituality & Sexuality & Philosophy' started by Venus55, Oct 22, 2017.
Yes of course apology accepted. Thank you,, no hard feelings at all!
Skepticism, for some, arises from knowing all of the ways in which human cognition is susceptible to such beliefs. Most of the experiences described by believers would not be enough to convince many skeptics. Frankly, the idea that skepticism is nothing more than ignorance, or lack of experience, is a little insulting. It's also a cop out, and it could easily be turned the other way. "Believers are just people who haven't seen the light of skepticism." <-- It's a bad argument for either side.
As a skeptic, I believe people when they say they have had such experiences. I just remain unconvinced that supernatural explanations are warranted. Having one of these experiences myself isn't going to change that, unless the experience is such that it demonstrates some sort of scientific demonstrability.
That said, I love to hear about people's experiences. Stories of encounters and strange happenings still give me a creepy feeling. I find them interesting, just not convincing. I am open to the idea, but I need more than just anecdotes and hearsay.
Yep, it happens all over the world, and can even be reproduced in a clinical setting. It's known as sleep paralysis. The biological and psychological mechanisms for this phenomenon are actually well understood. Of course, knowing the explanation doesn't make it any more pleasant for the individual experiencing it. It still sucks.
I can appreciate what ur saying. I explained it that way for myself more than anything. Each time I heard of someone else's experience no matter how convincing I would walk away still very much the skeptic and yet still believing in the possibility. Contradiction I know.
However having had my own unexplainable experience now, I'm kinda left with no choice but to believe. In what I don't know? Do I still question the happening, yes. It's a strange way to feel tbh.
(To insult wasn't my intention).
I've experienced sleep paralysis many times and still do mainly when exhausted. It's scary in how vulnerable u feel. I've always described to others like ur still in full dream state but completely aware of your surroundings, person sleeping next to u etc, but u can't move or make a sound. Quite similar to a nightmare as well in the sense that I can wake up, sit up in bed, thinking oh thank f that's over, only to realise I'm still on my back staring at the ceiling still unable to move.
I hate having them. I haven't for a few years now so that's been good
Right. I can understand your line of thinking. You assumed that because experience is what squelched your skepticism, it should be that way for anyone. That is understandable, and I don't find it insulting. But the flip-side is the implication that skepticism is nothing more than lack of experience, and someone who spends a great deal of time thinking about skepticism and the principles and process behind it might find such an implication to be dismissive.
I have, at times, felt the feeling of having no choice but to believe something. However, that is because I was faced with overwhelming reason or evidence. What I hear you saying is that, for you, your experience was overwhelming evidence. Since I did not have your experience, I cannot judge it. Just as you cannot judge how I would respond. Your situation does, however, bring to mind a coupe of points.
1) You should be open to the idea that, if you studied things like human cognition, the ways in which investigations go wrong, our evolutionary predisposition to recognize false patterns and assign intelligent agency to those patterns, our uncanny tendency to morph our memories to fit our beliefs, and our need to connect the dots and form a narrative, you may find your experience to be far less overwhelming.
2) Why ghosts? If we are going to throw out scientific plausibility, then why not aliens, or demons, or super secret government experiments, or remote mind-control carried out by humans using future technology, or glitches in a reality-simulating program made by artificial intelligence.... What gives ghosts any more weight than other fanciful explanations?
3) It's okay to say "I don't know." There is nothing that says we have to choose an explanation simply because we don't understand what happened to us. The feeling of having no choice but to believe should come from evidence, not from ignorance. It's the job of our intellect to explain the world and figure out our place in it, and so it tends to see a weak explanation as being better than no explanation. Filling in our ignorance with something that makes sense and giving us a narrative to work with is what the brain does. But logic and science has taught us that this is a poor way of gaining accurate notions of how the world works. Intuition is often primed to send us in the wrong direction, because that wrong direction is often useful for other reasons aside from accuracy. But, there is nothing unscientific about the phrase "I don't know."
"The pathophysiology of sleep paralysis has not been concretely identified, although there are several theories about its cause."
"Sleep paralysis is mainly diagnosed via clinical interview and ruling out other potential sleep disorders that could account for the feelings of paralysis. The main disorder that is checked for is narcolepsy due to the high prevalence of narcolepsy in conjunction with sleep paralysis. The availability of a genetic test for narcolepsy makes this an easy disorder to rule out. Several measures are available to reliably diagnose (e.g., the fearful isolated sleep paralysis interview) or screen (Munich Parasomnia Screening) for recurrent isolated sleep paralysis."
"The condition may occur in those who are otherwise healthy, those with narcolepsy, or may run in families as a result of specific genetic changes. The condition can be triggered by sleep deprivation, psychological stress, or abnormal sleep cycles. The underlying mechanism is believed to involve a dysfunction in REM sleep."
"Several circumstances have been identified that are associated with an increased risk of sleep paralysis. These include insomnia, sleep deprivation, an erratic sleep schedule, stress, and physical fatigue. It is also believed that there may be a genetic component in the development of RISP, because there is a high concurrent incidence of sleep paralysis in monozygotic twins. Sleeping in the supine position has been found an especially prominent instigator of sleep paralysis."
"Sleeping in the supine position is believed to make the sleeper more vulnerable to episodes of sleep paralysis because in this sleeping position it is possible for the soft palate to collapse and obstruct the airway. This is a possibility regardless of whether the individual has been diagnosed with sleep apnea or not. There may also be a greater rate of microarousals while sleeping in the supine position because there is a greater amount of pressure being exerted on the lungs by gravity."
"Treatment options for sleep paralysis have been poorly studied. People should generally be reassured that the condition is common and not serious. Other efforts that may be tried include sleep hygiene, cognitive behavioral therapy, and antidepressants."
I believe I started having SP since puberty, a common initiators were sleep deprivation, physical fatigue, and Sleeping in the supine position, probably had 3-5 times.
My "believe" is a person is more vulnerable to spiritual attacks when deprived of sleep , or under extreme psychological and emotional stress.
As I said, the mechanisms are well understood. That doesn't mean we know everything, but the knowledge we do have is comprehensive and narrowed down to the nitty-gritty. It's not just a stab in the dark. There is still room among the data argue about the specifics of the processes, but to make room for the idea of ghosts or demons, we'd have to throw out all the data that's there.
Your belief is interesting, and I'm curious as to what you mean by "vulnerable to spiritual attacks." Are you saying these are demons or some sort of entities? What are they trying to accomplish with these attacks? I don't want to respond too much without first understanding your position.
I don't deny any of that especially that the mechanisms are well understood.
In my my "believe" each and every person is accompanied by unseen beings, angels and demons, our enemy is so powerful, we've to have a sort of protection from them that's were the angels play a role, we also have a sort of unseen shield that surrounds each one of us, that shield is as powerful as a person's faith in his\her creator and how positive the person's actions are.
under extreme conditions of fear, depression or any emotional stress a person might lose faith and that weakens the shield and become more vulnerable to demonic attacks.
practicing sorcery, witchcraft, black knowledge open doors to these demonic world, put the price is dear.
cause fear and terror to feed on it.
I can and do fully agree with each of the points u've made. So I will also agree that titling this thread "paranormal" experience was I guess ignorant on my behalf. Because all I do infact believe is that I had an "unexplainable" experience, not necessarily a paranormal one. Hence my statement that I now believe, but in what I don't know? I just wasn't able to relay it as eloquently as you.
@Venus55, Is your friend planning on moving?
Has she and her partner had any other strange occurrences since then?
Lol. No she's not moving and apparently hasn't had anymore happen. Well apart from the baby giggling and gurgling whilst staring at the wall lol, in which she's convinced he's laughing "with" someone.
I have never had a paranormal experience although I know some folks that have.
"G" a friend that is heavy into it once gave me a reading and says I have a guardian angel. He is my grandfather, my mom's dad. He died before I was born.
I was, and still am, skeptical of what he spoke about. I did ask my mom some questions that my friend had brought up and some of what G said fit the answers my mom had.
I don't scoff at folks that do believe I am just not sure myself.
Enough about me. Feeling lucky? Check out like minded folks at http://paranormaldate.com/ .
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Maybe you could hook up with someone and scare the pants off of each other.
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did this happen in the UK ?
I recently lost my father. I had a dream and of course it was just a dream, but in that dream I met my father' ghost and it was his actual presence, I am sure of that now. In the dream he told me things that cured my heart of ailments. Now I am at peace with his passing but I am sure it was my father I met in my dream.
Omg ive just realised who I'm talking to Venus55 I have read a few of your posts and seen a few pics and wow may I say what a stunner beautiful pics xx
Haha sorry wrong place wrong time I'm from the uk and I go to paranormal activity's quite alot I love this kinda stuff x
I find myself doing that more often than I'd like to admit.
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