PAR test of cree vs citi vs cutter

long day. im tired. blew up a 3590 thanks to the most non-intuitive ammeter ever(DOH)

quick and dirty test of 1400 mA and below. i have a better benchtop power supply coming and will do further testing and some spectra as well

setup: bare cobs with no optics or reflectors, at 15" in freespace with no nearby reflective surfaces, 140mm pinfin with 120 mm fan sitting atop it, HLG-185H-C1400B

PAR measurements with Li-Cor LI250A w/ LI190 Quantum sensor

'supra-style' graph:
x axis = watts measured at COBs
y axis = ppfd in umol/W

takeways:
citi looking to pass cree in efficiency above 50w as mfr data suggests. impressive performance for a 2700k. 3500k citi should be ~5% higher. ill try to run 5000k citi vs 5000k db bin 3590 later today

cutters run soft were not as efficient but i was unable to test them to their full potential (higher currents)

just for shits and giggles the cheapie $7 2700k A19 bulbs were about 4.5 umol/W in the same setup

sorry to hear about the 3590

what are these cutter chips? got a link?

http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut2886

http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut2855

interetsing

would be good to see those cobs at thier rated watts vs a cxb3590 at the same watts too

or at least all of those at 100w

when my 120V 3A benchtop power supply comes next week ill be able to run the crees up to 112W, the citi 1825s to 165W, and the cutters to 150 and 300W respectively. i can push the crees up to their max of 138W with an HLG-320-42A but i dont think theres much to see there. citi should be whooping it by 30% out at that wattage

Funny how i came to the crossroads of investing my loot in a 60V/5A vs a 120V/3A power supply.. and the cobs i wanted to test were all higher voltage lower current

physics n'shit.... how does it work

Now we are talking.

BOBBY_G said:

when my 120V 3A benchtop power supply comes next week ill be able to run the crees up to 112W, the citi 1825s to 165W, and the cutters to 150 and 300W respectively. i can push the crees up to their max of 138W with an HLG-320-42A but i dont think theres much to see there. citi should be whooping it by 30% out at that wattage

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thats great i really want to see what cobs do at around 100w because cooling is still cheap enough(pc fan style)

thanks in advance

little better setup, still limited to 1360 mA. these are all 5000K chips. the cree is a 70 CRI. Citi pulls ahead over 30W and is delivering the same efficacy as the DB 3590 at 33% higher power (60W vs 45W)

Subbed. Really great. Have been waiting for someone to do a test of Citi COBS vs CXB. Nice data. Would love to see a Citi 1212 3500K tested as well.
Also a Cheap China COB for comparison. Keep it up.

Trippyness said:

Subbed. Really great. Have been waiting for someone to do a test of Citi COBS vs CXB. Nice data. Would love to see a Citi 1212 3500K tested as well.
Also a Cheap China COB for comparison. Keep it up.

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citi 1212s are cheaper, but not as efficient as the 1825s at a given wattage

https://www.rollitup.org/t/is-this-a-vero-29-killer.906620/page-4#post-12623443

youd need 3 of them @16.9W to match the 179 lm/W efficacy of an 1825 @ 50W

but yeah the 1212s and the 1825s are the value leaders

Anyone think crees performance problems at currents might have something to do with the ceramic base material they use, compared to metal?

BOBBY_G said:

citi 1212s are cheaper, but not as efficient as the 1825s at a given wattage

https://www.rollitup.org/t/is-this-a-vero-29-killer.906620/page-4#post-12623443

youd need 3 of them @16.9W to match the 179 lm/W efficacy of an 1825 @ 50W

but yeah the 1212s and the 1825s are the value leaders

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I'd actually say the 1812 and 1825, but whatever. I just wrote this up in a pm, might be of general interest as well:



All at Tj=25, 3000K 80CRI

Vs Vero 18B and D: At 4855lm the 1212 makes 166lm/W.

Vs Vero 18D: At 6311lm, the 1212 makes 159lm/W
Vs Vero 18D: At 6311lm the 1812 makes 171lm/W.

Vs the Vero29D: At 12369lm the 1818 makes 153lm/W, a much closer race.

We need to calculate LER to really compare, but this gives us an idea, anyway.

The 1825 wins by a large margin vs all gen7 Vero variants, obviously. It also costs $7 more than the current Vero 29. Citizen has size on it's side there, and bigger=better. The 14000lm and 18000lm Veros will cost more, presumably? If they do, the 1825 is their competition.

This is all comparing at Tj=25, since that is how Bridgelux has tested in the past. They do a pulsed measurement in a 25C room so Tj=Tc.

But unless the Vero 18 is (much) cheaper than it has been, I think the 1212 and 1218, and 1825 are going to continue to be price and performance leaders.

But unless the Vero 18 is (much) cheaper than it has been, I think the 1212 and 1218, and 1825 are going to continue to be price and performance leaders.

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Stock will aslo play a role, with those places that do have the citi's right now for US customers jacking up the price it changes the game here and the Vero's become relevant again with such close margins when comparing $12 vs almost $30 plus per COB.........

Evil-Mobo said:

Stock will aslo play a role, with those places that do have the citi's right now for US customers jacking up the price it changes the game here and the Vero's become relevant again with such close margins when comparing $12 vs almost $30 plus per COB.........

Click to expand...

Well, depends if a vendor here stocks Citizens

JorgeGonzales said:

Well, depends if a vendor here stocks Citizens

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Yup.......

But yes, Bridgelux wins just for distribution alone. It's going to suck if next gen Vero 18s are priced higher and perform worse than the 1212 and 1218s,

List the Citizen COBs with temps and cri, that you would like (and quantities) I will be calling CDIweb, either today or tomorrow and see what they can do.

JorgeGonzales said:

But yes, Bridgelux wins just for distribution alone. It's going to suck if next gen Vero 18s are priced higher and perform worse than the 1212 and 1218s,

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Precisely why I did not wait...... like you said when you built your light "I grabbed what I could without a 6 week wait"........

The one place I found the citizens wanted @$30 for them vs $12 for the Vero 18's which also need no separate COB holders, etc.

So I snagged 8 COB's for $96 plus shipping for my build. I do however appreciate all of the work you have put into the citizen info and really want to run some of their products going forward........