P or Cal deficiency, or overfed. Not sure

Duellie

Member
Came back home after a work trip, and found the plants were monsters. The burn still continued on the one plant, but slowed right down. She grew so much the damaged leaves seemed pretty insignificant in comparison to the new growth. I upped the ppm from about 650 to 790 today. Gonna see how she responds. The other plants have some random spots, but still look very healthy. They're at 28 days now.

I'll keep this updated until I can say for sure what is going on.
 

SatIndy

Well-Known Member
I would say they look and feel happier lol.
They do look happier! Thanks to @Duellie for the pics b/c for whatever reason (too cold at night and/or the tap water), I recognized mine to have the same ailment - which confirms my hunch of a possible P deficiency. So, excuse me for butting in to ask if distilled water is okay for mixing with nutes?
 

3rd Monkey

Well-Known Member
They do look happier! Thanks to @Duellie for the pics b/c for whatever reason (too cold at night and/or the tap water), I recognized mine to have the same ailment - which confirms my hunch of a possible P deficiency. So, excuse me for butting in to ask if distilled water is okay for mixing with nutes?
Since you are asking me (you will get different answers), I say it's fine. Low ppm, easy ph. What's not to love?
 

SatIndy

Well-Known Member
Since you are asking me (you will get different answers), I say it's fine. Low ppm, easy ph. What's not to love?
:) Cool, thanks. It's got to be better than all the minerals in the tap-water I see left in the distiller - which was kind of shocking to see the first time, lol. And that's one question I can cross off the list! It's hard to pin down a definitive answer on the net, and most links led here anyway. Thanks again.
 

Logan Burke

Well-Known Member
They do look happier! Thanks to @Duellie for the pics b/c for whatever reason (too cold at night and/or the tap water), I recognized mine to have the same ailment - which confirms my hunch of a possible P deficiency. So, excuse me for butting in to ask if distilled water is okay for mixing with nutes?
It is ok to use distilled water, but there are some drawbacks as opposed to tap and RO. Distilled water, like RO, has no minerals so you're more likely to have to add a Cal/Mag product. In hydro, distilled water even after being mixed with nutes, is more likely to give you PH swings and unstability. If your tap isn't horrible quality, I'd opt for that over distilled :)
 

SatIndy

Well-Known Member
It is ok to use distilled water, but there are some drawbacks as opposed to tap and RO. Distilled water, like RO, has no minerals so you're more likely to have to add a Cal/Mag product. In hydro, distilled water even after being mixed with nutes, is more likely to give you PH swings and unstability. If your tap isn't horrible quality, I'd opt for that over distilled :)
Okee-dokee. You just gave me idea, since I really don't have a lot to lose at this point. They are the free Freedom Dream strain which are more CBD, Sativa - and possibly Autos. Still trying to figure that out but, from what I've read & seen, I'm pretty sure. Disappointing, sure. But a good way to figure it all out before getting some 'real' seeds.

So, I'm going to try 2 w/ Distilled, and 2 w/ tap water just to see if there is any difference. I guess that's one way to find out for sure. I have no fancy gadgets yet, save a pH & soil tester for NPK. But ppl are testing for ppm's - and even if I had one, I'd have no idea what to look for - yet. Thanks :)
 

Logan Burke

Well-Known Member
So you aren't sure if the strain is an auto or not? Sorry bud, I'm a little slow over here. Waking and baking did me no favors haha. But as long as you don't have anything to lose or aren't relying on the crop, experiment away, I would anyways! I'm a bit confused, are you running hydroponics or soil? Auto's aren't the end of the world if you're worried about that, you may even come to prefer them :) In hydroponics, you can turn auto's into monster plants, like the auto's in my profile pic.
*EDIT* Also meant to add, PH is the most important thing...when in soil, a lot of people say ppm testing isn't very reliable anyways, but I'm in hydro so I wouldn't know. So if you can measure PH, you're good! And you can do that with cheap-o soil PH testers if in soil.
 

SatIndy

Well-Known Member
Hi :)
Well, maybe wake 'n bake did me no favours in being clearer, ha. All good Q's.
I'm in Pro-Mix w/ myco soil w/ about 1/3 added Perlite.

The reason I'm not sure about the Autos is, what little info I can find, is contradictory. But your pretty plants are Autos? I guess you're a good guy to talk to then! They sexed at about 3 weeks. Was easy to spot. They started little white pistils at around 4 weeks... got leggy, don't have a lot of lateral growth and maybe didn't like the Remo veg nutes suddenly added (at 1/4 strength) in week 5? Which is when they went under 600w LED. I have no idea what I'm doing, lol... But was going by info I'd dug up that would not relate to Autos, and I'm finding they behave differently - and do not look the same as others at same stage.

Like, the light sched should stay on 18/6? I was just going to flip until I read that here, lol. Especially since I got my first hydro bill, ffs. (It's been, like, -31c around here, sooo.... hard to tell what's what.)

Anyway, pH is good about 1" below surface at 6.5 & run-off *was* 5.5 - not great. But don't know what that means.

I had read what you good folk were saying about the P def and when I post pics in my journal, you'll see what I mean about me thinking that's it. The stalks on some are red. Again, don't know if the strain does that anyway, but don't think so.

I flushed them w/ just plain water. Then gave them 1/2 strength flower food. Overnight, they seemed to perk up & grow - a lot. They are now on Week 8. Honestly don't know how to proceed, and most searches led me here :) Have not watered since, so no run-off to measure.

Does that help? Any ideas? Thank you!
 

Logan Burke

Well-Known Member
So you're getting white, pre-flower like pistils even though your light schedule is on18/6? If so, you've definitely got auto's. Strangely, preflower with autos means that they will still produce foilage for awhile. True flowering starts with them when they stop stretching upwards and begin to actually swell up in bud size. Yeah there is a lot of misinformation on autos! The main differences is that they don't tolerate high ppm nutrients very well, depending on strain, most like about half the ppm's of photoperiod strains, and you can't top/FIM them because their limited life span means they don't have time to recover and be able to yield nearly as much. Same goes for trimming off leaves. They like to be left alone but you can tuck leaves out of the way of bud sites as much as needed. They seem to grow best at 18/6 or 20/4. Autos can be very different from one another of the same strain, because they've not been around as long they're less genetically stable, so some will show big differences. Whew, sorry to ramble!! Lol, wow -31c? That's cold as hell! Do you have a submersible water pump for your hydro res? Fairly cheap and invaluable to have around for hydroponics! It sounds like you've gotten them on track! If they're throwing outwhite pistils, I'd continue feeding flower nutrients or, if you want them to put on more leaves, half veggy nutrients and half bloom nutrients. As long as they're responding well, keep doing what you're doing! I'd just watch out for the PH whenever you get a chance to collect some runoff. You can always add some dolomite lime, or there may be faster acting additives (I'm more of a hydro grower so I'm not sure lol). How cold does it usually get in your grow space?

Sorry for the rambling, I have a motor mouth at times lol.
 

SatIndy

Well-Known Member
So you're getting white, pre-flower like pistils even though your light schedule is on18/6? If so, you've definitely got auto's. Strangely, preflower with autos means that they will still produce foilage for awhile. True flowering starts with them when they stop stretching upwards and begin to actually swell up in bud size. Yeah there is a lot of misinformation on autos! The main differences is that they don't tolerate high ppm nutrients very well, depending on strain, most like about half the ppm's of photoperiod strains, and you can't top/FIM them because their limited life span means they don't have time to recover and be able to yield nearly as much. Same goes for trimming off leaves. They like to be left alone but you can tuck leaves out of the way of bud sites as much as needed. They seem to grow best at 18/6 or 20/4. Autos can be very different from one another of the same strain, because they've not been around as long they're less genetically stable, so some will show big differences. Whew, sorry to ramble!! Lol, wow -31c? That's cold as hell! Do you have a submersible water pump for your hydro res? Fairly cheap and invaluable to have around for hydroponics! It sounds like you've gotten them on track! If they're throwing outwhite pistils, I'd continue feeding flower nutrients or, if you want them to put on more leaves, half veggy nutrients and half bloom nutrients. As long as they're responding well, keep doing what you're doing! I'd just watch out for the PH whenever you get a chance to collect some runoff. You can always add some dolomite lime, or there may be faster acting additives (I'm more of a hydro grower so I'm not sure lol). How cold does it usually get in your grow space?

Sorry for the rambling, I have a motor mouth at times lol.
Thanks Logan! Absolutely no need to apologize because I don't think you're rambling at all - probably because that's what I tend to do as well, haha. Besides that's all really great info, which confirms a lot of what I've noticed the girls doing. Thanks so much for clearing a lot of things up for me - especially confirming they are Autos. It matters!

And you are right, they started those pistils at 3-4 weeks and totally don't like many nutrients - even the first 1/4 dose burned them - but then again, they probably needed more bloom than they were getting. I've never given them full strength due to my suspicion of what they were and what I've read.

The leaves suffered a bit from that shock, and also from the cat getting in through a vent, and having a bit of a snack. I will post pics in my journal too, but the raggedy leaves are not bugs - it's just what's left after Floyd had a go at them. Sneaky guy... ;-) He loves the leaves. The high CBD content may have something to do with that, and make him feel good. It's weird, he doesn't even throw them up like cats normally do. Thank goodness for that! But he's like a junkie now... good grief. :roll:

I'm in soil, so no pump or res. I have enough to figure out, for now, and am leaning towards organics at some later date - but what do I know? Things change. Oh, and running temp is 21-24 approx. w/ 40-50 rh - but one morning I turned on the lights and it was around 12 or 13. It's a tough Canadian strain, so may tolerate those temps ok.

The pic is one of four plants taken through glasses, and has the most upward growth all along the stem due to my LST-ing the shit out of it, lol. Apparently they only grow one cola - and I thought, "Oh, hell no!" Was not too successful with the others, as it was kind of late in the game to start - but they are all lateral and should produce more than one!

Maybe one day, down the road, I can cross the high CBD Sat w/ something else and come up with my own strain ;-) Girl's gotta dream. Really appreciate your time and knowledge on this. You've been a major help. Thank you!

One - Copy.jpg
 

Logan Burke

Well-Known Member
Hahahaha don't feel bad my cats love getting ahold of the leaves!! And lol glad you don't mind my rambling I tend to get off topic sometimes. Yeah contrary to popular belief, for whatever reason, I've had a lot of auto's come out with buds as big as the plant's main cola, giving it that topped FIM look even though you haven't. Some auto strains do well with LST'ing, personally I'll bend my plant's main stem over just so that it doesn't grow as tall during it's stretch. But some will get prissy and get mad when lst'd lol. But I've had a lot also turn out looking like christmas tree shape as well, and they do yield less :( Your auto looks pretty nice although I can't see it's size, it looks bigger than some of the other soil grown auto's I've seen around roll it up, so you're doing something right! I'm always glad to help, link me in if you ever make your own strain though I'd be excited to see it! Happy growing, hope to see ya around on the forums! :)
 

SatIndy

Well-Known Member
Will get the more embarrassing pics on the journal. I got their good side on this one, lol ;-) These seeds produce a majority of males, and I have tons of them - so one day, the high CBD may come in handy. Can plants have both high CBD and THC? Or do they kind of just 'pick one'? haha.
 

danjac82

Well-Known Member
It’s not taking up phosphorous right. Notice the purpling on leaf veins. Those patches of brown are indicative of p deficiency especially when coupled with the purpling. Calcium deficiency looks different.
 

SatIndy

Well-Known Member
It’s not taking up phosphorous right. Notice the purpling on leaf veins. Those patches of brown are indicative of p deficiency especially when coupled with the purpling. Calcium deficiency looks different.
Thanks, and sorry I missed this til now.
Yeah, lol, I don't think those stems 'n branches are supposed to be purple. P, you say?
If you have any ways to go about fixing that, I'm all ears - well, eyes, really. :shock:
 

Hydro4life

Well-Known Member
It is ok to use distilled water, but there are some drawbacks as opposed to tap and RO. Distilled water, like RO, has no minerals so you're more likely to have to add a Cal/Mag product. In hydro, distilled water even after being mixed with nutes, is more likely to give you PH swings and unstability. If your tap isn't horrible quality, I'd opt for that over distilled :)
I use distilled water and find it great! Some strains need an extra touch of cal/mag but it looks alot healthier, more vitality! (Like when you add a dash of b52.) Or maybe my tap waters just crap? One thing I will say about tap water is it keeps the roots whiter with the added chlorine...... don't know if thats a good thing or not lol.
 

Logan Burke

Well-Known Member
I think it's pretty situational, especially with different regions having totally different qualities of water. Tap water can cause issues for people like me who add beneficial microbes to their DWC water, like you said, the extra chlorine I would imagine would make it more difficult for them to survive. I would imagine buying distilled water every week getting quite expensive compared to buying an RO system though?
 
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