smink13
Well-Known Member
Hey guys
I wanted to post in organics since my bed is all organic, and since I believe I'll find better help here than in the plant problems section.
Info: been making my own no till soil for years. In fact, the soil I'm using is over 5 years old now. I recently moved so I took all my pots and emptied them into garbage cans, and brought them to my new spot in a covered trailer. I then dumped them into a 4x9 bed in my new spot to make a raised garden bed.
I used fabric liner and 2x4 and 2x6, and built the bed on top of some pallets so it wasnt sitting on the ground. Pictures will be attached.
Notes to consider before diving in:
1:Temp stays roughly around 84 degrees. Doesnt swing farther than 10 degrees, even less for rH Yes it warm but I keep rh around 50-55 to help out, (too scared to go higher on vpd chart, as I didnt want to risk pm)
1A: the week prior to this was its hottest week down there, it got up to 90 degrees at some points. Again, if you grow outdoor, you know cannabis does fine in higher hearts, as long as you have air exchange and monitor rh. I know it's not ideal but I dont have an A/c in the new spot yet.
2: rH is 45-54 I'd say, usually around 49%
3: I grow under LEDs, and have used the same lights for past year no problems.
4: I have fans on each side and one under canopy area, and also has a big can fan that exhausts the room 24/7
5: this I could believe be a culprit. I defoliate at day 1, 21, and 42. After the 3rd defoliation is where I noticed all this, prior, they were as healthy as possibly can be. Coincidence? Maybe.
6: I have about 16 plants in here, some were smaller at th time of addition so it's not like 16 fullsized that could be choking the shit out of each other, imo they have enough room to spread out but dont know yet for sure as it's my first grow in a bed indoors.
7: I do not use co2
I've been growing now in this medium for around 6 weeks before I noticed the problem. No joke, i havnt had healthier plants in what seemed like forever, these things were just exploding with growth and praying almost always, I was naturally psyched at the success of my new bed. Then one day, a couple days ago, I noticed a Bee cookie starting to wilt. Being that it's my new bed I thought ok, I need some extra water here as I'm still learning how to correctly and evenly water this bed still. So I didnt over due it, I just gave maybe a half of pitcher, directly around the base of the stalk, and was going to observe the next day to see if that helped it out. Well the next day I came into a plant that looked even worse. I have a picture of this day I'll attach.
It was at this point I noticed another plant doing the same thing. It was in the next "row" towards the back. Note: these to plants are close together but not touching. So at this point I got my moisture meter (I know they arnt super accurate but IME a very good indicator of what's happening in the root zone) and I probed around the first plant which said moist but didnt immediately go straight to wet, which will happen say right after a water.
So since it said moist I thought, well, maybe the meter isnt that accurate and to try a little more water, thinking maybe the roots had spread out so far away from the plant, I needed to water more around the area. So I lightly gave another half pitcher or so around the entire plants area. I thought best thing I know to combat root issues, so I made a compost tea. This is what I watered the second time. I in turn, watered the new plant doing this, as this was a much larger plant, thinking ok, they are around week 4 ish in flower, so they may just need more than I'm providing at this point.
Next day: the front plant turned crispy. And the back plant was going the same route as the first one. So naturally I'm starting to shit my pants. In all my years growing, I've never seen this. Only time is when I literally forgot to water a pot, twice in a row on watering days.
So since watering was essentially making it worse I went with letting it dry down a bit. Moisture meter showed basically the same for the back plant, if not a little more wet.
Flash forward a few days as I generally water every 4 days in this bed and these 2 plants never recovered. I went to rip them from the bed since at this point, they both completely whilted and turned crispy and died. When I did this, the came out with basically no effort. I expected to have to dig them out so that was a big WTF moment ( They never turned yellow or showed any deficiencies, they just dropped, turned that grayer looking color and crisped up and died.)
I scoped for bugs the entire time this way going on, and never found any. Only bugs I saw were at the root ball level and were hypoasmis miles (sp) which I've become accustomed to seeing doing organics. I also only saw 1 fungus gnat larva.
Note: these are no filters of any kind flying around, whole time in there, didnt even see a fungus gnat. Usually you see one or two but none so just curious to note
I'm going to attach some photos of the root zone. I noticed that could be either juvenile hypoasmis miles around the stem, at the soil level but cant tell with my 100x scope.
Yesterday: it now appears that 2 of the smaller ones, on the complete other side of the bed, may be going the same route. Starting to freak out. If I lose this bed I'm done.
Thoughts:
1: my initial impression was maybe russet mites. After scoping i saw none and still dont.
2: ok no bugs, so I look to root zone, I saw what appears to be just beneficial mites that are always there
3: I've known hypoasmis miles to be more brown, the couple mites I did see were loners, and were a little clearer looking, almost white, but not white like a root aphid. (Never had them, just what pictures show) also a root aphid looks more pear shaped or boxier looking than these.
4: could be nematodes, have zero experiences w these
5: a couple days after I pulled the plants, I let the roots dry out in the garbage. I attached a picture. Before they dried out, when i pulled them, they look like they could be cracked open is the only way i can describe it. So i thought ok, maybe you didnt water them enough but in the same bed i have plants that are still healthy AF ( appear to be) and they all got same water. When growing in pots, i never noticed any of my genetics needing a lot more water than others, you obviously have some that you know take a little less than others but none that I'm like oh shit, I cant water the mac or else itll die off. All seem to be fine w equal amounts of water at watering times.
6: looks like a whitish substance around culled plant stem at soil level, I'll post this pic later today, didnt save in my phone for some reason
As it stands yesterday, I'll be there again today later, the whole bed sits at moist and not wet. When I dug a bit down it seemed no different than a correctly watered pot. Today I'll be digging to the bottom to see if maybe water is just collecting at bottom and causing a root rot/fusarium problem. Root rot seemed less likley since the roots wernt brown, slimy or smelled bad.
Sorry so long but I try to be thorough, any questions please ask. If I forgot something please ask. I really need some insight here. If there are any beneficial to water in that people can think of, that's my next plan of attack.
First pic: september 12th
2nd pic: september 27th
3rd pic: september 30th
---All those I was super happy, pic 4 it's the 2nd or 3rd day of this going on and you can see the plant in front is in trouble
4th pic: october 4th (after this pic I culled the 2)
5th pic: VIDEO of root zone, the day of culling (wont upload at my location, when I get to grow, I'll upload it
6th pic: I'll post later, it shows a whitish substance around the base of stem
Thank you guys so much for reading this and taking the time to help out, for real!
Whoever properly helps me out and gets this back on track I'll be sending either some seeds or a cut for free for helping me out. (My veg is unaffected)
I wanted to post in organics since my bed is all organic, and since I believe I'll find better help here than in the plant problems section.
Info: been making my own no till soil for years. In fact, the soil I'm using is over 5 years old now. I recently moved so I took all my pots and emptied them into garbage cans, and brought them to my new spot in a covered trailer. I then dumped them into a 4x9 bed in my new spot to make a raised garden bed.
I used fabric liner and 2x4 and 2x6, and built the bed on top of some pallets so it wasnt sitting on the ground. Pictures will be attached.
Notes to consider before diving in:
1:Temp stays roughly around 84 degrees. Doesnt swing farther than 10 degrees, even less for rH Yes it warm but I keep rh around 50-55 to help out, (too scared to go higher on vpd chart, as I didnt want to risk pm)
1A: the week prior to this was its hottest week down there, it got up to 90 degrees at some points. Again, if you grow outdoor, you know cannabis does fine in higher hearts, as long as you have air exchange and monitor rh. I know it's not ideal but I dont have an A/c in the new spot yet.
2: rH is 45-54 I'd say, usually around 49%
3: I grow under LEDs, and have used the same lights for past year no problems.
4: I have fans on each side and one under canopy area, and also has a big can fan that exhausts the room 24/7
5: this I could believe be a culprit. I defoliate at day 1, 21, and 42. After the 3rd defoliation is where I noticed all this, prior, they were as healthy as possibly can be. Coincidence? Maybe.
6: I have about 16 plants in here, some were smaller at th time of addition so it's not like 16 fullsized that could be choking the shit out of each other, imo they have enough room to spread out but dont know yet for sure as it's my first grow in a bed indoors.
7: I do not use co2
I've been growing now in this medium for around 6 weeks before I noticed the problem. No joke, i havnt had healthier plants in what seemed like forever, these things were just exploding with growth and praying almost always, I was naturally psyched at the success of my new bed. Then one day, a couple days ago, I noticed a Bee cookie starting to wilt. Being that it's my new bed I thought ok, I need some extra water here as I'm still learning how to correctly and evenly water this bed still. So I didnt over due it, I just gave maybe a half of pitcher, directly around the base of the stalk, and was going to observe the next day to see if that helped it out. Well the next day I came into a plant that looked even worse. I have a picture of this day I'll attach.
It was at this point I noticed another plant doing the same thing. It was in the next "row" towards the back. Note: these to plants are close together but not touching. So at this point I got my moisture meter (I know they arnt super accurate but IME a very good indicator of what's happening in the root zone) and I probed around the first plant which said moist but didnt immediately go straight to wet, which will happen say right after a water.
So since it said moist I thought, well, maybe the meter isnt that accurate and to try a little more water, thinking maybe the roots had spread out so far away from the plant, I needed to water more around the area. So I lightly gave another half pitcher or so around the entire plants area. I thought best thing I know to combat root issues, so I made a compost tea. This is what I watered the second time. I in turn, watered the new plant doing this, as this was a much larger plant, thinking ok, they are around week 4 ish in flower, so they may just need more than I'm providing at this point.
Next day: the front plant turned crispy. And the back plant was going the same route as the first one. So naturally I'm starting to shit my pants. In all my years growing, I've never seen this. Only time is when I literally forgot to water a pot, twice in a row on watering days.
So since watering was essentially making it worse I went with letting it dry down a bit. Moisture meter showed basically the same for the back plant, if not a little more wet.
Flash forward a few days as I generally water every 4 days in this bed and these 2 plants never recovered. I went to rip them from the bed since at this point, they both completely whilted and turned crispy and died. When I did this, the came out with basically no effort. I expected to have to dig them out so that was a big WTF moment ( They never turned yellow or showed any deficiencies, they just dropped, turned that grayer looking color and crisped up and died.)
I scoped for bugs the entire time this way going on, and never found any. Only bugs I saw were at the root ball level and were hypoasmis miles (sp) which I've become accustomed to seeing doing organics. I also only saw 1 fungus gnat larva.
Note: these are no filters of any kind flying around, whole time in there, didnt even see a fungus gnat. Usually you see one or two but none so just curious to note
I'm going to attach some photos of the root zone. I noticed that could be either juvenile hypoasmis miles around the stem, at the soil level but cant tell with my 100x scope.
Yesterday: it now appears that 2 of the smaller ones, on the complete other side of the bed, may be going the same route. Starting to freak out. If I lose this bed I'm done.
Thoughts:
1: my initial impression was maybe russet mites. After scoping i saw none and still dont.
2: ok no bugs, so I look to root zone, I saw what appears to be just beneficial mites that are always there
3: I've known hypoasmis miles to be more brown, the couple mites I did see were loners, and were a little clearer looking, almost white, but not white like a root aphid. (Never had them, just what pictures show) also a root aphid looks more pear shaped or boxier looking than these.
4: could be nematodes, have zero experiences w these
5: a couple days after I pulled the plants, I let the roots dry out in the garbage. I attached a picture. Before they dried out, when i pulled them, they look like they could be cracked open is the only way i can describe it. So i thought ok, maybe you didnt water them enough but in the same bed i have plants that are still healthy AF ( appear to be) and they all got same water. When growing in pots, i never noticed any of my genetics needing a lot more water than others, you obviously have some that you know take a little less than others but none that I'm like oh shit, I cant water the mac or else itll die off. All seem to be fine w equal amounts of water at watering times.
6: looks like a whitish substance around culled plant stem at soil level, I'll post this pic later today, didnt save in my phone for some reason
As it stands yesterday, I'll be there again today later, the whole bed sits at moist and not wet. When I dug a bit down it seemed no different than a correctly watered pot. Today I'll be digging to the bottom to see if maybe water is just collecting at bottom and causing a root rot/fusarium problem. Root rot seemed less likley since the roots wernt brown, slimy or smelled bad.
Sorry so long but I try to be thorough, any questions please ask. If I forgot something please ask. I really need some insight here. If there are any beneficial to water in that people can think of, that's my next plan of attack.
First pic: september 12th
2nd pic: september 27th
3rd pic: september 30th
---All those I was super happy, pic 4 it's the 2nd or 3rd day of this going on and you can see the plant in front is in trouble
4th pic: october 4th (after this pic I culled the 2)
5th pic: VIDEO of root zone, the day of culling (wont upload at my location, when I get to grow, I'll upload it
6th pic: I'll post later, it shows a whitish substance around the base of stem
Thank you guys so much for reading this and taking the time to help out, for real!
Whoever properly helps me out and gets this back on track I'll be sending either some seeds or a cut for free for helping me out. (My veg is unaffected)
