organic nutes in hydroponics

Question for anyone who knows basically in dwc organic nutes cannot be used because the air being pumped in turns the organic material anaerobic causing shitloads of problems but does anyone know if you grow in dutch/bato/hempy buckets if organic is possible since an air line wouldn't be necessary and if you feed on a timer the water is replaced often enough to stay fresh or what about kratky would really like to know plz

You get nutrients that have been derived from organic sources that are suitable even for hydro.
This is not organic growing. Organic growing relies on soil microbes supplying the food the plants need, and we just supply the microbes to do their job, it is a living substrate.
Using organically sourced nutrients to feed as dissolved salts that would kill soil microbes on exposure is not growing organic. It is a feelgood plaster.

I am experimenting with hydro vegging under lights then transplanting to soil in the sun this year. Even though the seedlings are raised on chemicals, I bet if these plants flourish and bloom, the end product would be far more organic than hydro from a bottle.

ANC said:

You get nutrients that have been derived from organic sources that are suitable even for hydro.
This is not organic growing. Organic growing relies on soil microbes supplying the food the plants need, and we just supply the microbes to do their job, it is a living substrate.
Using organically sourced nutrients to feed as dissolved salts that would kill soil microbes on exposure is not growing organic. It is a feelgood plaster.

I am experimenting with hydro vegging under lights then transplanting to soil in the sun this year. Even though the seedlings are raised on chemicals, I bet if these plants flourish and bloom, the end product would be far more organic than hydro from a bottle.

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i was thinking the same with dwc to soil but im thinking would you get the flavour of soil if you built up a huge microbial life on the rootball then fed organic nutes would the flavour be there with the huge plant you woul get from a highly aerated root mass just a thought ive been running a sterile res until last year this whole microbe things kind of new to me

You get flavours because of terpenes, to make terpenes a plant needs access to the precursors to make it.
This it gets from the nutrients it has access to. It does not matter if it comes from a rotting potato or from an oil refinery.
Without nutrients, genes can not be activated. Dormant genes cannot express the full range of terpenes that plant can deliver.
I.e. you get out what you put in. regardless of your choice of substrate and feeding.

if you veg huge in dwc then transplant to soil i would have a big hole for the roots and you would probably want to plant out in time for atleast a months veg since the shock would be huge plus the soil would take a while to coat the root mass completely i have read a bit about this but alot of hermies pop up when reading so its kinda put me off if i was u i would dig a huge hole fill it with mycos and pray for the best not being funny i hope it goes well keep me posted will be interesting if you go good ill prob follow suit well ill definitely follow

dwceazy said:

if you veg huge in dwc then transplant to soil i would have a big hole for the roots and you would probably want to plant out in time for atleast a months veg since the shock would be huge plus the soil would take a while to coat the root mass completely i have read a bit about this but alot of hermies pop up when reading so its kinda put me off if i was u i would dig a huge hole fill it with mycos and pray for the best

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ANC said:

You get flavours because of terpenes, to make terpenes a plant needs access to the precursors to make it.
This it gets from the nutrients it has access to. It does not matter if it comes from a rotting potato or from an oil refinery.
Without nutrients, genes can not be activated. Dormant genes cannot express the full range of terpenes that plant can deliver.
I.e. you get out what you put in. regardless of your choice of substrate and feeding.

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terpinator all day have you seen any of harley smiths videos he says it doesnt matter weather its hydro nutes or organic since when the microbes in the soil eat what you feed them there is a chemical change so basically what we feed in hydro is what the microbes are shitting out so its all the same really check him out if you havent already he has 2000 acres tomato farm in rockwool with a 0% loss to insect or disease he also says that when your brix levels reach over 12% no leeching or sucking insects will even recognise your plants as food check him out harley smith npk industries

thanks for the help ANC and happy harvesting

An has just come out with certified organic nutes that are made for hydro or soil/soilless. Big Bud, Iguana Juice Grow and Bloom, Bud Candy and Ancient Earth Humic acids. I want to get the nutes, BB and maybe the humics to try in DWC. Might get the Bud Candy for growing some in ProMix HP which is also certified organic. I also use low doses of Rhino Skin from the seedling stage tho they say to wait until flowering. Plants like it and the stems are strong so I'll do it my way.

OldMedUser said:

An has just come out with certified organic nutes that are made for hydro or soil/soilless. Big Bud, Iguana Juice Grow and Bloom, Bud Candy and Ancient Earth Humic acids. I want to get the nutes, BB and maybe the humics to try in DWC. Might get the Bud Candy for growing some in ProMix HP which is also certified organic. I also use low doses of Rhino Skin from the seedling stage tho they say to wait until flowering. Plants like it and the stems are strong so I'll do it my way.

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whoa there bud candy nooooo it has preservatives in it terpinator is better big bud ancient earth voodoo juice and overdrive are about all i would pay for but then even voodoo juice is snake oil 2ml/L try plant success orca its dilution rate is something like 3ml per 10 gal and rhino skin is silica also 2ml/L try potsil 1ml/10L and no joke a 10th of the price derived from the exact same stuff b-52 is good but an tends to put a pretty picture on the bottle and suddenly its champagne please dont be fooled like many people have there are much better alternatives that have a lower dilution rate for literally a 10th of the price if u know what to look for

also advanced just droped a third of there line. Most of there additives are still there but i think iguana juce may be nix. Lots of people do organic hydro to great sucess. It just takes experience. Yes in a dwc also. If you dont want to use an airstone a sub pump and drip ring will add circulation thus h20. Bennies should be able to take care of harmfull bacteria. I by no means do it myself im organic soil roots organic nutes. Been thinking abought doing an organic coco grow.

I grow in perlite hempy buckets using Dr. earth organic liquid nutes.I use the nitro big and golden bloom.I also add kelp me kelp you.It works very well for me,I feed 1 tsp per gallon every 3 days.

nmibud said:

I grow in perlite hempy buckets using Dr. earth organic liquid nutes.I use the nitro big and golden bloom.I also add kelp me kelp you.It works very well for me,I feed 1 tsp per gallon every 3 days.

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have you done deep water yet if so how do the growth rates compare what is faster

dwceazy said:

whoa there bud candy nooooo it has preservatives in it terpinator is better big bud ancient earth voodoo juice and overdrive are about all i would pay for but then even voodoo juice is snake oil 2ml/L try plant success orca its dilution rate is something like 3ml per 10 gal and rhino skin is silica also 2ml/L try potsil 1ml/10L and no joke a 10th of the price derived from the exact same stuff b-52 is good but an tends to put a pretty picture on the bottle and suddenly its champagne please dont be fooled like many people have there are much better alternatives that have a lower dilution rate for literally a 10th of the price if u know what to look for

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All I use from AN is the base nutes, Big Bud and Rhino Skin. Got a liter of OverDrive for half price or I wouldn't have got it. I have a bottle of plain, concentrated potassium silicate that is supposed to be used at 1/4tsp/L but it shoots the pH up to 10 where I don't even check the pH after adding Rhino to my RO water and just mix in the rest of the nutes and give it to the plants in DWC or soilless with no problems. I use the Rhino at 1/4 - 1/2 of their recommended use so a liter lasts a long time for me.

Got a liter of GrowTech CalMag for $15 and use a bit of epsom salts once in a while.

I'm no dummy when it comes to looking for deals but also want simplicity that I'm willing to pay a bit for. I don't consider $120 for 3 gallons of AN 3-part nutes to be expensive and it was $20 cheaper than the same size jugs of crappy GH 3-part. I dump a couple caps of my complex-B vitamins, couple of zinc tablets, 2000mg of ascorbic acid and a couple iron caps into my mortar and pestle and grind it all up to add to the nutes just for the heck of it.

Dynamo626 said:

also advanced just droped a third of there line. Most of there additives are still there but i think iguana juce may be nix. Lots of people do organic hydro to great sucess. It just takes experience. Yes in a dwc also. If you dont want to use an airstone a sub pump and drip ring will add circulation thus h20. Bennies should be able to take care of harmfull bacteria. I by no means do it myself im organic soil roots organic nutes. Been thinking abought doing an organic coco grow.

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The new 2-part organic nutes are called Iguana Juice Organic.

I never use bennies and they are really no help to DWC grows unless you have heat issues and want them for protection from the nasties that cause root rot. Then you need to keep adding them as the nutrient sol'n really doesn't give them anything to eat so they don't last that long. I'd use them in my soil/soilless grows along with something like molasses to support their growth but never for hydro.

OldMedUser said:

All I use from AN is the base nutes, Big Bud and Rhino Skin. Got a liter of OverDrive for half price or I wouldn't have got it. I have a bottle of plain, concentrated potassium silicate that is supposed to be used at 1/4tsp/L but it shoots the pH up to 10 where I don't even check the pH after adding Rhino to my RO water and just mix in the rest of the nutes and give it to the plants in DWC or soilless with no problems. I use the Rhino at 1/4 - 1/2 of their recommended use so a liter lasts a long time for me.

Got a liter of GrowTech CalMag for $15 and use a bit of epsom salts once in a while.

I'm no dummy when it comes to looking for deals but also want simplicity that I'm willing to pay a bit for. I don't consider $120 for 3 gallons of AN 3-part nutes to be expensive and it was $20 cheaper than the same size jugs of crappy GH 3-part. I dump a couple caps of my complex-B vitamins, couple of zinc tablets, 2000mg of ascorbic acid and a couple iron caps into my mortar and pestle and grind it all up to add to the nutes just for the heck of it.

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Those salts are basically the same, you just pay extra for them to say advanced nutrients, GH 3 part works just as well, what would save you even more money is buying dry salts.

dwceazy said:

have you done deep water yet if so how do the growth rates compare what is faster

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Twice as fast in veg and twice the yield. 4X the yield with DWC ScroG properly done than you can get with a free-standing plant grown in soil unless you are a master dirt farmer which I ain't. Getting back into DWC for the bulk of my growing for now on. Already done around 50 DWC grows since 2001.

Yodaweed said:

Those salts are basically the same, you just pay extra for them to say advanced nutrients, GH 3 part works just as well, what would save you even more money is buying dry salts.

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Even the basic 3-part AN nutes has a lot more going for it than GH and they promote pot growers not deny their nutes are used to grow pot like GH. If you want to support a hypocritical company with your money then buy GH but I'd rather support a company that has fought tooth and nail to develop some of the best nutes for growing pot and isn't afraid to announce it publicly like they have since their inception. Now that GH is owned my Scott's/Monsanto anyone who buys any of their products drops to the bottom of the list of people I consider cannabis educated.

With AN in every bottle of nutes they add Wet Betty, a surfactant that helps the nutes be absorbed into the roots. Fulvic acid and lots of aminos are also in there plus the micros are ALL chelated and then theirs the pH Perfect technology that makes sure the nutes are available to the plants in a very wide range of conditions.

With GH you get salts, mostly sourced from the cheapest bidder in China and pretty shitty quality control so the new bottles you get could be different concentrations than the last batch which throws off your feeding from one cycle to the next. In that case I'd totally agree that you are better off buying the base salts and mixing up your own nutes like I used to back in '82 the first time I tried hydro nutes.

I went into downtown Vancouver to Western Water Farms and bought a 1000W MH ballast and bulb and a kit of all the salts in bags with a small bag of the micro-nutrients. I also got a photocopy of formulas to mix them at for various vegetables where I was told to use the tomato recipe for my "special tomatoes" as a store could get shut down if it became known they sold to pot growers. I don't want to do all that fussing around again and I have a diploma in chemistry so it's not like it's hard to figure out for me but it's harder than using a few bottles of pre-mixed nutes designed just for growing cannabis and not made for general vegetable/flower growing like GH soon to be sold in quality stores like Walmart!

For the amount I grow the nutes I have now will last at least 2 years. Were I to go much bigger then I'd for sure buy 50lb bags of base salts and mix my own for pennies on the dollar compared to even crappy GH nutes. Mine would likely be better as well.

And like I posted above the 3gals of AN was $20 cheaper than 3gals of GH. Even if it was the other way around I would have got the AN. It's the supplements they suck you in with if you're the kind of person that has to have it all even if you don't know what to do with it other than to read the label and dump it in. Do that with the full line and I guarantee you end up with dead plants.

To each their own tho.

OldMedUser said:

Even the basic 3-part AN nutes has a lot more going for it than GH and they promote pot growers not deny their nutes are used to grow pot like GH. If you want to support a hypocritical company with your money then buy GH but I'd rather support a company that has fought tooth and nail to develop some of the best nutes for growing pot and isn't afraid to announce it publicly like they have since their inception. Now that GH is owned my Scott's/Monsanto anyone who buys any of their products drops to the bottom of the list of people I consider cannabis educated.

With AN in every bottle of nutes they add Wet Betty, a surfactant that helps the nutes be absorbed into the roots. Fulvic acid and lots of aminos are also in there plus the micros are ALL chelated and then theirs the pH Perfect technology that makes sure the nutes are available to the plants in a very wide range of conditions.

With GH you get salts, mostly sourced from the cheapest bidder in China and pretty shitty quality control so the new bottles you get could be different concentrations than the last batch which throws off your feeding from one cycle to the next. In that case I'd totally agree that you are better off buying the base salts and mixing up your own nutes like I used to back in '82 the first time I tried hydro nutes.

I went into downtown Vancouver to Western Water Farms and bought a 1000W MH ballast and bulb and a kit of all the salts in bags with a small bag of the micro-nutrients. I also got a photocopy of formulas to mix them at for various vegetables where I was told to use the tomato recipe for my "special tomatoes" as a store could get shut down if it became known they sold to pot growers. I don't want to do all that fussing around again and I have a diploma in chemistry so it's not like it's hard to figure out for me but it's harder than using a few bottles of pre-mixed nutes designed just for growing cannabis and not made for general vegetable/flower growing like GH soon to be sold in quality stores like Walmart!

For the amount I grow the nutes I have now will last at least 2 years. Were I to go much bigger then I'd for sure buy 50lb bags of base salts and mix my own for pennies on the dollar compared to even crappy GH nutes. Mine would likely be better as well.

And like I posted above the 3gals of AN was $20 cheaper than 3gals of GH. Even if it was the other way around I would have got the AN. It's the supplements they suck you in with if you're the kind of person that has to have it all even if you don't know what to do with it other than to read the label and dump it in. Do that with the full line and I guarantee you end up with dead plants.

To each their own tho.

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The people that AN support aren't very good either, didn't one of them have some type of pedophile charges against them?

I just googled charges advanced nutrients and this is what came up https://www.change.org/p/boycott-advanced-nutrients-ltd-to-fight-child-rape

So remember you are supporting that by buying AN nutrients.

I don't buy those salts, i'm an organic grower.

So i didn't read the ENTIRE thread but i wanted to share my story of organic nutes in hydro.

SO if you look at the pic on my avatar i was using ONLY Advanced Nutrients.

NOTHING organic in my reservoir.

One day i get this bright idea to add some organic bull shit to the reservoir.

Within 2 weeks i had white mucus looking grown ALL OVER my air pump and floating in the reservoir.

Obviously i FREAKED out, and i did mass research.

Basically i added a life force to my reservoir and it had a SHIT ton of nutes to thrive off of.

So it created a MESS of this unwanted mucus growth.

Now this story doesn't end with sad ending....

As i said i did massive research and something that should always be added to a Hydroponic system is H2O2....Hydrogen Peroxide.

Not only does it get more oxygen to the roots, it KILLED the fuck outta that mucus.

I dumped the reservoir and kept up with 2 bottles of peroxide a week and the mucus never came back and i had some ridiculous yield as you can probably tell.

Either way i'm all about straight steroids no organics for my plants....lol

Terpinator? Budcandy?

Sorry but you guys been had. That stuff is simple sugars and plant esters that go right into the root. Thats all most those "sweeteners" are. Adulterants. They add weight, not yield. Sugar frost, not trichs. Inflammation, not bigger buds. A smell straight from the bottle, no magic scientific terpene inducing chemical reaction.

Sweet, Sour Dee, Kushy Kush, Floranectar, its all glorified Brix+. Youd be better off spraying Welch's juice on your plants. Please don't take that as a tip. Molasses or nothing. Dont care what Big Mike science says. Its a fraud product for smack dealers.



To answer OPs original question, some organic hydro nutes like Mills will support micro life, but why not swap the coco for peat, add 20% local soil, and inoculate seldomly with teas rather than bi-weekly with bottles?