Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Could you give three examples of biblical prophecy you believe has happened?
On "What makes you believe that God is real?"
- Thread starter Padawanbater2
- Start date
undercovergrow
Well-Known Member
1. The State of Israel (even the timing is prophetic regarding how long the Jewish people wandered)
2. The recapture of Jerusalem
3. Mass animal deaths and natural disasters increasing subsequently
If creation itself is not enough for you, then nothing I say ever will be. it's odd that someone who professes to love science cannot see the wonderful nature of the Creator.
You do not understand sin and it's consequences because you do not understand Who the offense is against.
2. The recapture of Jerusalem
3. Mass animal deaths and natural disasters increasing subsequently
If creation itself is not enough for you, then nothing I say ever will be. it's odd that someone who professes to love science cannot see the wonderful nature of the Creator.
You do not understand sin and it's consequences because you do not understand Who the offense is against.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Be specific, I'm looking for the passage in the Bible that foretells prophecy, then the event in the real world confirming it
Existence is not proof of a creator. In fact, there are many different scientific facts that completely contradict biblical creation (4.5 billion year old Earth, the theory of evolution, etc.)
I don't believe in the concept of sin because I don't believe in God or any organized religion. Sin is a religious concept
Okay a major prophecy that has been fulfilled recently that signals the end is real and that there is a God because he knows the future and has told us already what is to happen is the alliance between Turkey, Iran (Persia), and Russia(magog). The fact that they are allies is fulfilment of Ezekiel 37-38 and Revelation 20 v 7-10. The fact that never im Human History has theese geographical regions were ever aligned until now and that Persia (or Iran today) help israel in the 7 days war in 1973 now they are against Israel. Just shows how things will change and fulfill time. Almost all scientists agree to some type of divine or supernatural thing had to play into creation of the universe. As if anything were off by a smidge we would never been here nor the universe. The probability of creation happening on its on is so astronimical it is impossible. Science believes in the big bang and that is the best way to describe what he bible says on how the heavens were created. And God Said let there be light. If you donot believe in God or Jesus Christ he still died for you so you may be called righteous. Read the gospel of John and ask for God to prove it to you before you do (truly open minded) and ill bet you will agree that you need salvation. This is not the world God created it is a fallen world that needs forgiveness to go to heaven and the only way for forgiveness is by blood and thats what Christ did when he was at Calvary.
heb.9.22-24.nlt In fact, according to the law of Moses, nearly everything was purified with blood. For without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness. For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with human hands, which was only a copy of the true one in heaven. He entered into heaven itself to appear now before God on our behalf
heb.9.22-24.nlt In fact, according to the law of Moses, nearly everything was purified with blood. For without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness. For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with human hands, which was only a copy of the true one in heaven. He entered into heaven itself to appear now before God on our behalf
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
That's not what Ezekiel says. It says there will be a war between Israel and many other nations, and if you pay close attention, the writer doesn't specify a date.. People use this kind of language to do exactly what you're attempting to do, claim it's biblical prophecy. If you believe what you wrote, any war at any time against Israel could be interpreted as fulfillment of the prophecy..
That doesn't sound divinely inspired to me. It sounds like the writer knew war was inevitable, as common for the time period
Also, nearly 80%+ of all scientists in all fields of study don't believe in a personal god
That doesn't sound divinely inspired to me. It sounds like the writer knew war was inevitable, as common for the time period
Also, nearly 80%+ of all scientists in all fields of study don't believe in a personal god
undercovergrow
Well-Known Member
I think I could take the time to list out the verses regarding Israel's return (a few: Zechariah 8, Isaiah 43, Isaiah 51, Micah 4), Jerusalem being a central point in world events once the Jews controlled it again, the Hosea prophecies regarding the animal deaths increasing along with natural calamities increasing, and you would refute them all since as you clearly stated earlier: you do not believe. Earth billions of years old is what man says it is, evolution is what man says it is--you seem to put a lot of faith in what other men say and not what the Word of God says. You have no proof either that the earth is billions of years old nor that evolution is in fact true. The evidence that creation itself exists is enough, you deny that it is because you so sincerely desire to deny there is a God.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
http://ideonexus.com/2012/02/12/101-reasons-why-evolution-is-true/
We know how old the Earth is because we can scientifically verify it, we can measure it.. We know evolution happens because we can see it happen, we can test it
Accepting the age of the Earth or evolution doesn't require faith. Faith is belief without evidence. Both, determining the age of the Earth and evolution are scientifically verifiable. Why would you guess dolphins and whales, both mammals, swim vertically - that is they move their tails up and down, as opposed to fish who swim horizontally, left to right? Because their ancestors ran on land.. Why would dinosaurs have feathers and chickens have the gene to create teeth, yet have no teeth? Because birds are the descendents of dinosaurs, they even walked the same.. Why would every living thing on Earth be carbon based? Why would humans and chimpanzees share 98% identical DNA? Why would everything after amphibian share a common body structure (4 limbs, 1 head and a tail)? Why would older organisms be found lower in geological strata and younger organisms be found higher?
These things are scientifically undeniable, whether you believe in god or not
dashcues
Well-Known Member
A poetic prose.The literal reading came later.
undercovergrow
Well-Known Member
@Padawanbater2 science has been unable to provide one piece of evidence that proves evolution. all animals have been found in the state they were created-there hasn't been a missing link found. you assume these things are this way (regarding the differences in animals) because you do not want to attribute them to a Creator and instead see them as evidence of evolution. science is unable to provide proof that the earth is that old-it is their best guess. again, you're taking the word of other men over the word of the Creator. you assume that in all periods of the earth's history, it decayed at a stable rate.
the two or three percent that is different from primates and humans is a lot of code in the DNA - just because the Creator utilized carbon based life forms as the primary form doesn't make it less spectacular.
nice debate. thanks for keeping it civil.
the two or three percent that is different from primates and humans is a lot of code in the DNA - just because the Creator utilized carbon based life forms as the primary form doesn't make it less spectacular.
nice debate. thanks for keeping it civil.
SamsonsRiddle
Well-Known Member
The whole thing about the earth being so many billions years old: You have not studied the Bible very in depth if you believe it says that that is not possible. If you study Genesis 1:2, for example, you find the earth is in a state of "tohu" and "bohu". However, the world was not created that way but BECAME that way. This is because there was a part when angels were over the earth and satan rebelled, taking 1/3rd of the angels with him; satan was in charge of god's government on earth. The point is, there is no where that says how long the angels were on the earth before god had to rejuvenate it because of the destruction caused by the angelic rebellion. Man is god's second fallen species, not the first.
Evolution is impossible. If something evolved into a new species, how could the old species exist?
Creation is simple. If you find a watch in the woods you can't possibly believe it just came together and started ticking. Every piece on it had to be intricately planned out and put together just right in order for it to work and be accurate.
The prophecies of the bible have so much symbolism it takes years of study to truly understand, let alone explain to someone else who doesn't quite get the whole symbolism thing. Some simple prophecies to study would be the "cyrus" prophecy, edom's barrenness, or the Josiah bone prophecy.
It doesn't matter if you believe god is real or not, just like it doesn't matter if you believe in sin or not. If you don't believe, then there is no purpose to your life other than a selfish purpose because you are only living for yourself.
Grandpapy
Well-Known Member
Imo, the only line in the Bible that hasn't been plagiarized is, "In the Beginning," after that, it has been up for interpretation/manipulation.
Perhaps faith is a discipline, where the answer is down the road. (time)
If thats the case, it cost you nothing. No tuition fee. Nothing to lose.
Why do we limit what we think is as fact based on our current knowledge when we know the 'current' will change.
How long will it be till we start using 17% of our brains? Lots of ram for something.
No it is biblical and hebrew scholars all agree magog is russia. Second it does give you a time period it says in chapter 36 says
ezk.36.22.nlt “Therefore, give the people of Israel this message from the Sovereign lord : I am bringing you back, but not because you deserve it. I am doing it to protect my holy name, on which you brought shame while you were scattered among the nations.
So it is after God brings israel back as a naion. This didnt happen untill 1948 so it is talking about right now. Also John refers to Gog and magog in revelation as to refrence exekiel. If only read chapter 38 you didnt read the whole thing. Its not a bunch of nations it literally list them
Son of man, turn and face Gog of the land of Magog(modern day russia), the prince who rules over the nations of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him. Persia(iran), Ethiopia, and Libya will join you, too, with all their weapons.
So its not so vague it tells u when after israel reamerges from basically the dead
happened in 1948 in response to ww2
List countries just in the geographic names of that time. Magog Persia ethopia and libya and they will be united only time in history is this true is now. US chose iran over israel and iran plans on attacking Israel even with the deal the ayatollah was at a party chanting death to America death to israel the day before the deal.
justugh
Well-Known Member
i thought that idea might make some ppl stop and think .....glad u liked it
it proves it .....what the guy that did it was saying look at the tech the man that came up with the idea if he had it he would have been able to solve the problem ........the man that did is saying look at tech and how much it helps ......but it still proved that a supreme being exist (something at the top not a random chance )
and before there was the bible there was word of mouth and stories ............if u look there is a Flood story (noah type) in every culture hell it was in the cuneiform on a clay tablet 6000 years ago before the jewish ppl
earth us is old then we thing ..........then u can mess with mayan and ancient greek creations stories ( 2 cultures never spoke but the story the idea is almost the same) ..........i am not saying it 100% or anything like that i am saying something is hidden in there it takes years of thinking to get passed the crap ....and i half think that is the point the jounery not the end ........doing this for years my thinking has change......7 yers ago i was like u wanting to disband and make it all illegal
but thinking i see that is not the answer ......it is not the right time enough ppl are not thinking for themselves to start a change
qwizoking
Well-Known Member
Adaptation is undeniable
Evolution is questionable at best (i prefer not to even aknowledge unless you already understand irreducible complexity and later criticism)
The bible does not specify age of the earth just like it does not say adam was the first man, genesis is a combination of 3 (maybe 4) oral and written tradition about a specific blood line.
We are still in the last day (7) the day of rest. Each day being a period in reference to the pov of someone on earth.. and you cant attempt to calculate age by adding blood lines, it doesnt list all of them. You have to study a little bit of the original languages and read a real study on the chapters to understand, not really a study bible that goes a little in depth but one that breaks down each verse and doesnt list the original text..what pastors etc study from... I think you know my scientific background and ive also thoroughly studied the bible. And continue to do so
Pada, you cant pick the weakest post to reply too, that hardly keeps the debate interesting.
Evolution is questionable at best (i prefer not to even aknowledge unless you already understand irreducible complexity and later criticism)
The bible does not specify age of the earth just like it does not say adam was the first man, genesis is a combination of 3 (maybe 4) oral and written tradition about a specific blood line.
We are still in the last day (7) the day of rest. Each day being a period in reference to the pov of someone on earth.. and you cant attempt to calculate age by adding blood lines, it doesnt list all of them. You have to study a little bit of the original languages and read a real study on the chapters to understand, not really a study bible that goes a little in depth but one that breaks down each verse and doesnt list the original text..what pastors etc study from... I think you know my scientific background and ive also thoroughly studied the bible. And continue to do so
Pada, you cant pick the weakest post to reply too, that hardly keeps the debate interesting.
Last edited:
The_Herban_Legend
Well-Known Member
From a fellow atheist, I approve this message. Great video bud.
The_Herban_Legend
Well-Known Member
Have you ever wondered why the deity in the old testament is much more blood thirsty than the deity in the new testament? I have an educated guess as to why that is. The deity is a product of mans creation in both the new and old testament. As times change and as man becomes more knowledgeable, able to differentiate an earthquake from a deity's curse for example, so does the authors writings. For example. just look at how far we as society have come just from the 1950's. Civil rights. of African Americans and homosexuals were unheard of.
Do you really think that a deity exists? If so, then tell me which one of the thousands, exists.
qwizoking
Well-Known Member
I dont see a difference between ot and new testament God . I do understand the purpose of Jesus and why it is not one testament..if thats what you dont get
More knowledgeable? Or more ignorant because we think we know.
Not sure how a countries view on african americans, africans or slavery of other groups or homosexuality is an example.
Unless you feel thats prophetic and we are nearing the end of times
More knowledgeable? Or more ignorant because we think we know.
Not sure how a countries view on african americans, africans or slavery of other groups or homosexuality is an example.
Unless you feel thats prophetic and we are nearing the end of times
The_Herban_Legend
Well-Known Member
Yon don't see a difference between the old and new testament? Wow, ok! Do you assume that society is "ignorant" because we have extended civil rights to all or are you just using religion to hide racist views?
Please tell me which of the many deity's created by man exists.
Please tell me which of the many deity's created by man exists.
The_Herban_Legend
Well-Known Member
By the way, we do know earthquakes are not created by a deity. If a deity created this Earth, you would assume he would know these simple things.
qwizoking
Well-Known Member
No, you cannot say that god could not have started a movement in plates or what have you that created an earthquake on a specific point in time.
Other than that your not making sense. I and the bible agree with equality. The greater degree of ignorance was the inability to see god at work
I would assume he would know what simple things?
If i had to pick one i would choose the christian God
Other than that your not making sense. I and the bible agree with equality. The greater degree of ignorance was the inability to see god at work
I would assume he would know what simple things?
If i had to pick one i would choose the christian God