Stoney McFried
Well-Known Member
Hey thanks, I'll check it out.I'll definitely need a cabinet, and some courses.I also have to talk my old man into it, cuz he thinks I'm nuts....
Are you just arguing to argue?
OH shit, gun control law discussions have hit the news.....
- Thread starter misshestermoffitt
- Start date
mindphuk
Well-Known Member
Lies. link to data supporting this position?
You cannot come in here and just throw out things like saying there are more guns per capita in Canada without providing a single shred of evidence and not expect to be called on it.
dutchthreat
New Member
Hummm I might have misread that fact, I think it was per family. Regardless here are the stats and per capita the US has more guns
http://www.guncontrol.ca/Content/Cda-US.htm
Also shows crime rates, what type of crimes committed. Sorry about the mix up with per capita/family
http://www.guncontrol.ca/Content/Cda-US.htm
Also shows crime rates, what type of crimes committed. Sorry about the mix up with per capita/family
urmomis100
Well-Known Member
Canada is #10 in highest reported crime rates in the world. Switzerland is last, which has more guns per capita then any other country in the world. All adult males are expected to get basic gun training for military purposes in their early 20's. Oh, and NYC and Washington D.C., both big U.S. cities with handgun bans: highest crime rate cities in the U.S. Proof gun control doesnt work. Gun control is a sweet thought and everything but the blowback principle wreaks havoc on you. Sound familiar? (the fucking drug war).
dutchthreat
New Member
Switzerland also has a teeny tiny population. I've been there many times, but they also have strict laws about gun crimes. Gun control doesn't work in NYC and DC because the prision sentence for being caught with a gun is not a great deturent.
mindphuk
Well-Known Member
Thank you.
I find it a rather aggravating trait when people won't admit to an error or gloss over it or even to have just ignored my post. It is refreshing and IMO, an indicator of some integrity.
Now, one thing I find I have in common with gun control opponents is that we both feel that violent crime and crimes committed with firearms need to be lower. Finding common ground is the only way to begin to resolve these types of debates.
Can we also agree that drug prohibition helps foster both criminal activity along with an increase in gun violence? Could there possibly be a link between how other countries deal with things like this? The US has a much higher drug appetite than Canada and has a greater gang problem too. If we were to eliminate gang violence with firearms from the statistics, would the US and Canada be closer to each other?
Since a complete gun ban, even if effectively reduces the number of guns, would also expand business for organized crime namely gun running. Possibly they would even go into gun manufacture. Firearms are very basic and a small machine shop could produce very decent guns, much better than homemade prison-style zip-guns. A complete ban on something is never a guarantee that it will be eliminated from society, the drug war should demonstrate that well enough.
The criminal element could get out of hand as unarmed citizens would be at their mercy, since there is hardly enough prisons to house all of these first time gun felons for as long as you would like.
The only option would be to build new prisons or release non-violent offenders. Of course decriminalizing drugs would also open up new prison space but if we did such a crazy thing, I believe violent crime, including gun crime would go down.
I wanted to put that out there for you just to think about, in case you do have the integrity I sensed, I would at least hope we can continue this debate without talking past each other and instead to each other.
dutchthreat
New Member
We need to clear one thing up, a gun ban and gun control are two separate ideals. I'm for gun control. If you have permits great. Go to the range and fire it up. Also I'm against concealed firearms. We also need to agree that guns do cause violence, direct or indirectly.
As for missing your posts it seems that whenever I would write something, and save you had a post I had never seen before. Not trying to ignore.
As for missing your posts it seems that whenever I would write something, and save you had a post I had never seen before. Not trying to ignore.
mindphuk
Well-Known Member
When I asked you for an example of a gun control law that is more effective then one of the 20,000 already on the books, you replied,
"Where is the question? What crazy law would have worked? Ban guns, your caught with one, life time sentence."
If you think some sort of sensible gun control will work short of banning them, you will need to be much more specific than you already have.
dutchthreat
New Member
LOL I don't have time to table up a bill for the house tonight, however I'll try to post tomorrow if I'm not too busy. gotta meet some important clients.
mindphuk
Well-Known Member
I'm not asking you for the detail the actual law would need, just a generalities. I mean if you aren't for a complete ban, you must have thought about this before and have some idea what type of laws you think would be effective.
urmomis100
Well-Known Member
Actually, the penalties are/were pretty strict. Plaxico Burress got fucked for having a handgun and he's doin some time, and he's an NFL player; the kind of guys that gets off lightly. DC overturned their gun ban because it didnt work. Hard criminals and gangbangers will never be dettered by any proposed punishment. States with the death penalty for murders do not have lower murder rates than those that dont. The only thing gun bans do is leave the thugs with guns, and hinder everyone else sitting ducks. Switzerland is a tiny country so many of their army members are just regular ppl with other jobs that carry guns, and like I said, they have more guns per capita than any other country, and they have the least crime rate. Crime rate means amount of crime/amount of ppl, so population is essentially irrelevant. Dont believe me? many other teeny tiny european countries are high on the crime rate list, like iceland and sweden (Iceland because the sun never shines and they have higher depression rates; understandable to have more violence) and these teeny tiny european countries have gun bans or extremely strict control. Switzerland has gotten more strict only because of pressure from other nations. And actually, Im definitley for gun control, like serial numbers ( to track down the murdering bastards) and 10 day waiting period (keeps ppl from buying guns on impulse and doing something stupid) and keeping guns from ex-felons and things like that, but to me, banning guns is fucking stupid and so is extremely aggressive gun control.
misshestermoffitt
New Member
The funny thing about gun control laws is, they don't work.
Owning a gun in the city of Chicago is against the law, yet in 2008 there were more gun related deaths in Chicago than in IRAQ. The Chicago police are outgunned and they know it and they've been crying for automatic weapons for a good 6 months now.
All gun control laws do is disarm law abiding citizens leaving the criminals in the power position.
Would you enter a house where there was a 50/50 chance of the homeowner shooting your ass clean off? Most likely not.
Would you enter a house where you knew good andwell that the home owner didn't own a gun and there was a zero percent chance of having your ass shot off? Yes, of course you would.
I think the best gun scenerio is to make gun ownership mandatory along with shooting lessons.
Would you enter a home where there was a 100% chance you would get your ass shot off? No fucking way..........
And there you have it, the best way to control gun toting criminals is to have even more gun toting citizens.
Owning a gun in the city of Chicago is against the law, yet in 2008 there were more gun related deaths in Chicago than in IRAQ. The Chicago police are outgunned and they know it and they've been crying for automatic weapons for a good 6 months now.
All gun control laws do is disarm law abiding citizens leaving the criminals in the power position.
Would you enter a house where there was a 50/50 chance of the homeowner shooting your ass clean off? Most likely not.
Would you enter a house where you knew good andwell that the home owner didn't own a gun and there was a zero percent chance of having your ass shot off? Yes, of course you would.
I think the best gun scenerio is to make gun ownership mandatory along with shooting lessons.
Would you enter a home where there was a 100% chance you would get your ass shot off? No fucking way..........
And there you have it, the best way to control gun toting criminals is to have even more gun toting citizens.
medicineman
New Member
There was a study done in one community where they made it mandatory to own a gun. Kennesaw Georgia:
The Virginia Tech killings have set off calls for tighter U.S. gun laws but anyone wanting to know why those demands likely will make little headway should visit Kennesaw, a town where owning a gun is both popular and mandatory.
The town north of Atlanta had little prominence until it passed a gun ordinance in 1982 that required all heads of a household to own a firearm and ammunition.
Kennesaw's law was a response to Morton Grove, Illinois, which had passed a gun ban earlier that year as a step to reduce crime.
But it also was an affirmation of what gun advocates say is a blanket U.S. constitutional right, under the Second Amendment, for citizens to keep and bear arms. Gun opponents challenge that right and say the language in the Constitution is open to interpretation.
The Kennesaw law has endured as the town's population has swelled to about 30,000 from 5,000 in 1982.
"When the law was passed in 1982 there was a substantial drop in crime ... and we have maintained a really low crime rate since then," said police Lt. Craig Graydon. "We are sure it is one of the lowest (crime) towns in the metro area.
cream8
Well-Known Member
surprise surprise idiots. its the same old story...big important things are going on in the country and the world and yet the media outlets bombard us with news that isnt news at all and issues that arent big storys get blown out of proportion..maybe the question we should be asking is "do these shorts make my dick look small?"...hahahahaha i kid i kid...guns are for pussys who cant stab someone up close or get in a fist fight...if your a hunter go fuck yourself and be a real hunter and use a bow and arrow. fucking pussys
medicineman
New Member
Aha, I see you're the guy who brings a knife to a gun fight, out here in the wild wild west, we calls em losers. Lets see how good your knife and Bow are against my AK. Before you could notch your arrow, I'd have at least 15 holes in you. It's not about machismo, it's about self defense.
CrackerJax
New Member
Well to be fair and honest, there are PLENTY of guns in circulation right now. It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if all the gun shops were shuttered up. It's not like we are going to run out of them. Leave the ones already purchased alone and disallow any NEW guns from being sold to the public.
out.
out.
tinyTURTLE
Well-Known Member
i agree that people who carry guns are pussies.
be they criminal or be they cop.
i can understand the gun behind the counter in the shop,
or in your house, burglars are real.
but carrying a gun in a public place
is a sure sign of the fear you feel.
be they criminal or be they cop.
i can understand the gun behind the counter in the shop,
or in your house, burglars are real.
but carrying a gun in a public place
is a sure sign of the fear you feel.