Oh Goodie! ... More on 911 (inside job) :)

PadawanBater said:

Exactly.

If the acts of 911 were not orchestrated by the US government, the elected officials used the attack against their own people to enact shit like the Patriot Act, and establish the largest government America has ever seen. Are they all to blame? No, some of them were tricked exactly how the rest of the world was. But there are definitely people who knew what they were doing, usurping power disguised as legitimate legislation designed to protect us. Just as the man said, "Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither" - and this is exactly what he meant.

I'd like to think we still have the power to voice our opinions on the national stage, but it seems we don't have any representatives who give a damn about our voice to begin with...

But then, there's the media. The organization I as a child thought was there to tell us what's happening, at that time not knowing the meaning of political agendas or political bias... Everyone in America gets their information from the mainstream media. The government responsible for the suspicious legislation, via spokespeople and ''journalists'' essentially controls the main stories that get aired on the news. That means the majority of Americans only hear what this already in power administration wants them to hear. A government that resorts to that level of brainwashing makes the biggest contradiction ever claiming to be free. Sure we're free to do what we want, and we're more ''free'' than most people in the world, but we still experience a level of slavery that cycles all the time but never changes. The majority of us are willfully ignorant to the shit that could save the next generations minds and end this goddamn cycle once and for all. There just aren't enough of us to make a dent in the system.

Corrupt politicians control media
Media controls what you see/hear
Corrupt politicians control what you see/hear

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Stands up and erupts into applause..............

NoDrama said:

How many theories have I expounded on here? Just the same one, you are just trying to make a comeback by trying so very hard to discredit me by coming up with lies , lies and more lies. Anyone who is following this thread has already thrown anything you say out the window, as seen by the lack of any support on your end of things. If anyone has tried to come up with multiple harebrained theories to try and prove impossibilities is you.

You still haven't addressed the "Molten Aluminum" theory of yours I already disproved, got no snappy comebacks for that one eh? I will take your silence on all the other things as your admission of defeat.

Thanks for Playing!

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I have very little time for internet play. Other threads have been more entertaining of late. When I have lost an argument I will concede it. Until such time as I voice my defeat, do not celebrate it.

What molten aluminum "theory" did you disprove? Oh... yes... lol... the color didn't look right to you, before the building didn't fall like you expected.

At some point we really are going to have to go over the definitions of "facts", "evidence", "proof", and "theory".

PROPOSING subjective evidence to support a theory is not "proof" "disproof" or "fact", and I am sick of making the distinction for you.



Please note in the above photo that the color of that pesky metal turns from yellow at the point of origin, to silver as cooled by the air at the bottom.

Please note this EVIDENCE supporting my BELIEF that this is molten aluminum.



Note that the stream of molten aluminum is not silver, but yellow and red... because of the temperature of that particular molten aluminum. Most experienced pourers let it cool a bit before pouring.



This is a plant recycling aluminum. See all those other colors? Some of that is other stuff (slag) melted with the aluminum. I expect WTC was not exactly a lab environment for melting aluminum.



More yellow from pure aluminum



An aluminum foundry. Pretty huh?


I know right... you are all confused... cause your sites show you this



Aluminum glows when it is hotter. That is all... but thanks ever so much for playing.


So now... let us be clear. I have not "disproven" your theory. I have demonstrated that mine is equally valid. Please stop using the words if you do not understand their meaning.

Evidence is subject to interpretation and therefore debatable. While it CAN prove a thing, it should not be implied that its interpretation IS proof of a thing.

Subjective interpretation is NOT evidence.

Proof, is CONCLUSIVE evidence of the truth or existence of a thing.

Evidence that coincides with your expectation of it, is NOT proof.

Facts are known pieces of information that are indisputable.

Beliefs are NOT facts. Not even if they are common beliefs.


Now... please stop trying to embolden your position by misusing terms.





Btw. What is the minimum amount of people required for your conspiracy?

Minimum.

Surprisingly enough you can get aluminum to glow red hot, I was wrong, but the temp needed to make it glow is right around 4500F(FACT). Now you aren't saying that the temps are at 4500F are you? because that would have easily melted the steel structure WAY before the aluminum would have glowed, and so we would have seen some type of structural damage before hand. As far as your pictures go, you will notice that all of the ones glowing are actually IN the FURNACE or in a vessel that is highly heated, its the furnace that glows, not your aluminum there buddy. The furnace is making the Aluminum glow, not the other way around. 1220 f (fact) is the melting point of aluminum, that pic showing the building MUST be iron/steel. Just because the red hot aluminum can keep its red color for 6 inches of pour as shown in your second picture only proves that it cools off so fast that there is no way it could sustain the kind of heat to make it glow while falling through the air. notice its still glowing red hot after falling several stories. Its not aluminum. Molten Iron/steel can do that, but not aluminum.

FWIW your pics are all over http://8real.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=phony&action=display&thread=21 and are pretty much debunked as having any validity. You can believe all you want that it is Aluminum, but the evidence shows otherwise. You can also believe in Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy, but that still doesn't make them real.

jrh72582 said:

I only asked for clarification dude.

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Sorry mate ... I thought I was clear.

jrh72582 said:

To be quite honest, I don't where I stand in regards to 9/11. I haven't researched the issue much at all.

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If you care about our country you owe it to her to investigate not only this, but the members of the Bilderberg group the Carlyle group, PNAC ... they believe they have a God given right to control our lives and they plan to create a one world government with them in complete control. Did you know that members of the Federal Reserve are above the law?

jrh72582 said:

I do know that Bush really capitalized on the fear, using it as a pretense to take away freedoms. To that, I (or rather Benjamin Franklin) say(s):

Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither. Amen.

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You are absolutely right about bush and obama is doing the same thing only expanding ... they plan to use obama to sell the NWO to the people ... we must shot out loud ... NO to global government.
It's amazing how many people on this fourm are willing to give up their liberty for security ... I'll take my chances with the so called terrorists than give MY freedom away. The sheeple may have no problem with it ... but I have a very big problem with it and I won't stand for it.

what... huh? said:

So now... let us be clear. I have not "disproven" your theory. I have demonstrated that mine is equally valid. Please stop using the words if you do not understand their meaning.

Evidence is subject to interpretation and therefore debatable. While it CAN prove a thing, it should not be implied that its interpretation IS proof of a thing.

Subjective interpretation is NOT evidence.

Proof, is CONCLUSIVE evidence of the truth or existence of a thing.

Evidence that coincides with your expectation of it, is NOT proof.

Facts are known pieces of information that are indisputable.

Beliefs are NOT facts. Not even if they are common beliefs.


Now... please stop trying to embolden your position by misusing terms.

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Notice folks at home how this guy like to play on words to try to win a no win argument? There is NOTHING subjective to the evidence of unreacted thermite at the site ... it's not a "subjective interpretation" with several witnesses stating they heard explosions before the buildings fell. It's not "subjective interpretation" to state the only way those building could have came down the way they did if for all the major point to fail at the same time which is impossible without some serious help. Instead of admitting he is wrong he'd rather continue this charade that he's proven the government story is true ... most with half a brain see that the evidence has been presented in this thread time and time again.
Also notice he doesn't provide the link source to his pictures ... but NO has ... that's the difference between us so called "truthers" and the lame ... we back our statements with links to the source.

NoDrama said:

Surprisingly enough you can get aluminum to glow red hot, I was wrong, but the temp needed to make it glow is right around 4500F(FACT).

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Props on intellectual honesty. I will stop being snide and shitty to you now. The temp to make it glow, however is not 4500F, and it is not a fact.

See the guys in the suits pouring the aluminum block? They are from popular mechanics, and the temperature is 1500c.

It is clearly a glowing stream.

Here. All PURE metals glow at the same temperatures regardless of their melting points. Again, as stated, nothing pure involved in that environment.
*The first chart is more recent and I am unsure of the source... the second is textbook, but very old (1929). I will try and find a better source when I have more time.

NoDrama said:

Now you aren't saying that the temps are at 4500F are you? because that would have easily melted the steel structure WAY before the aluminum would have glowed, and so we would have seen some type of structural damage before hand.

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That would be silly now wouldn't it? No. I am not suggesting that.

NoDrama said:

As far as your pictures go, you will notice that all of the ones glowing are actually IN the FURNACE or in a vessel that is highly heated, its the furnace that glows, not your aluminum there buddy.

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Aluminum, glass, copper wiring... etc.

NoDrama said:

The furnace is making the Aluminum glow, not the other way around. 1220 f (fact) is the melting point of aluminum, that pic showing the building MUST be iron/steel. Just because the red hot aluminum can keep its red color for 6 inches of pour as shown in your second picture only proves that it cools off so fast that there is no way it could sustain the kind of heat to make it glow while falling through the air. notice its still glowing red hot after falling several stories. Its not aluminum. Molten Iron/steel can do that, but not aluminum.

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I do not understand your conclusion. It seems as if you believe that because pourers do not want to splash themselves with molten aluminum, that the aluminum can only travel that distance before cooling? Do any of them look... less glowing at the bottom of the stream than the top?

NoDrama said:

FWIW your pics are all over http://8real.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=phony&action=display&thread=21 and are pretty much debunked as having any validity. You can believe all you want that it is Aluminum, but the evidence shows otherwise. You can also believe in Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy, but that still doesn't make them real.

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No... the pictures I didn't post have been called into question. I was very careful. I am aware that the furnace also contributes to the color... because all pure metals glow the same color at the same temperatures.



Pure aluminum in a tungsten boat. 1000C.

heh, well I don't know about all metals glowing at the same temperature, i will have to do some research on that one. Anyway, the other point I was going to make before i had to run off to work, was that Aluminum melts(1220f) at a much lower temperature than steel/iron(2600-2700F) right? No One disputes that. But here is the thing, if the aluminum melted, wouldn't it have all spilled out BEFORE it got hot enough to glow white/yellow hot?? In other words, the aluminum didn't melt, then stick around to get super glowing hot and THEN DECIDE to flow out of the building did it?

Another thing about your graph you show for illustrating the temperatures of metal and their color when they reach that temp. If aluminum melts at 1220 F, then why is it not a cherry red like your chart suggests that it should be, your very last pic definitely shows MOLTEN ALUMINUM that is not glowing cherry red, in fact its as silvery colored as the metal is when cooled. Your chart and your pics prove one or the other as wrong.

Some terrorists flew airplanes into the WTC, the pentagon, and some courageous civilians foiled a fourth and the plane crashed in PA.

I then believe the towers fell,due to fire, the impact, and the massive forces involved, and that they are not due to demolition or that the dumb ass Bush did it.

The only conspiracy I personally believe involved the terrorist conspiring to blow up the towers.

It's pretty simple, eh?

I'm a fan of Occam's Razor.

what... huh? said:

Emissivity.


.12 for pure aluminum.

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Aircraft grade aluminum IS .09. Steel is .20 to .32.

Antidisestablishmentarian said:

Some terrorists flew airplanes into the WTC, the pentagon, and some courageous civilians foiled a fourth and the plane crashed in PA.

I then believe the towers fell,due to fire, the impact, and the massive forces involved, and that they are not due to demolition or that the dumb ass Bush did it.

The only conspiracy I personally believe involved the terrorist conspiring to blow up the towers.

It's pretty simple, eh?

I'm a fan of Occam's Razor.

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Got any evidence other than opinion or Occam's Razor?

Antidisestablishmentarian said:

Some terrorists flew airplanes into the WTC, the pentagon, and some courageous civilians foiled a fourth and the plane crashed in PA.

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That's merely what the government told us and they have provide no evidence to back their theory.

Antidisestablishmentarian said:

I then believe the towers fell,due to fire, the impact, and the massive forces involved, and that they are not due to demolition

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The evidence clearly indicates those building were demo ... and there is no proof what so ever that those buildings came down due to fire ... none. You seem to be one of those people that accepts what ever the government or corporate media tells you no matter how ridiculous the info.

Antidisestablishmentarian said:

or that the dumb ass Bush did it.

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No one is claiming he did it on his own. He was nothing more than the puppet ... like obama is now.

Antidisestablishmentarian said:

The only conspiracy I personally believe involved the terrorist conspiring to blow up the towers.

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Where is your evidence of this? Link? Source?

Antidisestablishmentarian said:

It's pretty simple, eh?

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Yeah if you look at the facts, and the evidence ... it is simple ... but not in your case.

Antidisestablishmentarian said:

I'm a fan of Occam's Razor.

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And I'm a fan of the truth biting people in the ass.

At 6:59 you can see a pic of all those big steel beams all nicely cut off at a slight angle. I count 7 in that one picture. Hardly believable that that just "Happened". Great Find Grow!!

NoDrama said:

At 6:59 you can see a pic of all those big steel beams all nicely cut off at a slight angle. I count 7 in that one picture. Hardly believable that that just "Happened". Great Find Grow!!

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I've heard people refute this with ''the cleanup crew cut those beams to make the steel more manageable after the collapse" - which doesn't sound unreasonable to me..

I'm not sure if there's any way to determine if that's true or not, I guess the only way would be to find the official time that photo was taken, then figure out how long after the collapse took place it was shot... I don't know if that's possible at this point though...

I heard it was Jedi Knight Light Saber training day.

PadawanBater said:

I've heard people refute this with ''the cleanup crew cut those beams to make the steel more manageable after the collapse" - which doesn't sound unreasonable to me..

I'm not sure if there's any way to determine if that's true or not, I guess the only way would be to find the official time that photo was taken, then figure out how long after the collapse took place it was shot... I don't know if that's possible at this point though...

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If they cut those for "clean up" purposes, then what would be the point in cutting the coloumn at 45 degreds??? That is unless your trying to get a colomn to shift in a desired direction.

Im just sayin, if ur cleaning up a disaster area why take the time to make such an accurate cut on steel that has been destroyed? Yet alone being taken to me smelted..

I heard it was the fucking cleanup crew.



Anyone care to give me a "great find"?

Nahhh...

NoDrama said:

Aircraft grade aluminum IS .09. Steel is .20 to .32.

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and oxidized steel is .44. Aluminum oxide is .31. Glass is around .12 as memory serves.

Any idea what these things mean?

I was just doing a search for something completely unrelated and found this thread. I can't believe this is still being updated as of today. Just get a grip people.

huffy420 said:

If they cut those for "clean up" purposes, then what would be the point in cutting the coloumn at 45 degreds??? That is unless your trying to get a colomn to shift in a desired direction.

Im just sayin, if ur cleaning up a disaster area why take the time to make such an accurate cut on steel that has been destroyed? Yet alone being taken to me smelted..

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Because they are huge assed beams and columns which have to fall a certain way.


Does that sound at all vaguely familiar?


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