Of course the Civil war and the Confederate flag was not about slavery

Dr Gruber

Dr Gruber

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
yeah, and it really showed when they made the largest federal power grab in the history of that nation when they made other states submit to their will with the fugitive slave act :dunce:

"states' rights" was just nonsense they liked to spout while conducting themselves with no respect for states' rights.
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Sounds a lot like it is today................
 
Grandpapy

Grandpapy

Well-Known Member
Ok if there wasnt the issue of slavery

Would the civil war of happened?
Yes or NO?

Yes, But Lincoln went to Africa after his term to educate the populous.
As a result this you already read this post 30 years ago. :lol:
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
I was not aware that the DEA held or trafficked in slaves.

Throwaway comment aside, I am uneasy with describing slavery by degrees, since it opens the door to just the sort of political blue-sky philosophy to which you allude. Imo that sort of repurposing a term for ideological gain does not help. cn
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People were held in bondage based on skin color years ago. I have friends held in bondage TODAY because of their peaceful choice of medicine or relaxant. Held in bondage, life stolen, home stolen etc. due to actions /inactions of the DEA. I don't think it is a stretch to say that a person isn't "enslaved" if the reason they are held in bondage changes from skin color to preference for a particular plant.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
The word "slave" is another hot button inflamatory word who's use I find distasteful. No, taxation is not slavery, no being made to do something you do not wish to do is not slavery. When your wife and children are taken from you and sold for profit, and you are whipped for crying about your loss then you can be rightfuly called a slave, until that time, you may not like the situation but it insults the understanding of slavery for you to call yourself one.
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Okay, the DEA is paid right ? They "profit" from their jobs. Pot laws can result in good people having their children stolen from them right? How about when homes are confiscated due to drug charges ?

Slavery is the absence of freedom of self ownership. Can you really say people today are at liberty to peacefully own themselves? If they aren't they must be at least PARTIALLY enslaved aren't they?
 
Canna Sylvan

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
Okay, the DEA is paid right ? They "profit" from their jobs. Pot laws can result in good people having their children stolen from them right? How about when homes are confiscated due to drug charges ?

Slavery is the absence of freedom of self ownership. Can you really say people today are at liberty to peacefully own themselves? If they aren't they must be at least PARTIALLY enslaved aren't they?
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Why are you making fun of the hardships blacks went through? That's not cool.
 
tomahawk2406

tomahawk2406

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
Okay, the DEA is paid right ? They "profit" from their jobs. Pot laws can result in good people having their children stolen from them right? How about when homes are confiscated due to drug charges ?

Slavery is the absence of freedom of self ownership. Can you really say people today are at liberty to peacefully own themselves? If they aren't they must be at least PARTIALLY enslaved aren't they?
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What are you asking for? If you dont want part of this society your more than welcome to leave and try another. Im grateful for it, i consider myself pretty fucking free. All the things i have and the freedoms i have within the US are worth tax dollars to me. Is it perfect? Not at all. Can it be perfect? Not a chance. If you consider yourself a slave in the united states id have to say your just being a total bitch.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Rob Roy said:
People were held in bondage based on skin color years ago. I have friends held in bondage TODAY because of their peaceful choice of medicine or relaxant. Held in bondage, life stolen, home stolen etc. due to actions /inactions of the DEA. I don't think it is a stretch to say that a person isn't "enslaved" if the reason they are held in bondage changes from skin color to preference for a particular plant.
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You are unfairly conflating "prisoner" and "slave", or "prisoner" and the lesser category of "indentured servant". They are distinct concepts, and hijacking one to dramatize a point does harm to the point, and it degrades the word being hijacked. Imo. cn
 
C

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
Okay, the DEA is paid right ? They "profit" from their jobs. Pot laws can result in good people having their children stolen from them right? How about when homes are confiscated due to drug charges ?

Slavery is the absence of freedom of self ownership. Can you really say people today are at liberty to peacefully own themselves? If they aren't they must be at least PARTIALLY enslaved aren't they?
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Hey is there anyway you can change your nick to Drama Queen
or Whiny Bitch?

they suit you better than Rob ROy
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
Okay, the DEA is paid right ? They "profit" from their jobs. Pot laws can result in good people having their children stolen from them right? How about when homes are confiscated due to drug charges ?

Slavery is the absence of freedom of self ownership. Can you really say people today are at liberty to peacefully own themselves? If they aren't they must be at least PARTIALLY enslaved aren't they?
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This is a far fetch, as Read some books by slaves or former slaves and then pretend that you are explaining to that man or woman that the DEA is "like" their master and Pot laws are "like" slavery and were they to be able to speak, they would laugh in your face at the thought that slavery was "like" anything else.


Slavery is not the "absence" of anything. It is about the ownership of one person by another. Government and even corporations don't own us and there really is no such thing as "partial" slavery. As I have said, your being taken out and whipped for the fun of it or for a perceived offense and your having NO recourse for that having occured is far from any example you might put forth as to why you are a "slave".
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
People were held in bondage based on skin color years ago. I have friends held in bondage TODAY because of their peaceful choice of medicine or relaxant. Held in bondage, life stolen, home stolen etc. due to actions /inactions of the DEA. I don't think it is a stretch to say that a person isn't "enslaved" if the reason they are held in bondage changes from skin color to preference for a particular plant.
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These people knew the possible consequences of their action, they did not believe there should be such consequences but they performed the same contract all of us who do illegal things do. We agree that we have weighed the balance between benifit and cost and have decided that it is worth our while, worth the punishment to do what we do. Slaves had no such oportunity - especialy those who were born into slavery, born, owned.

That contract - contracts you seem to believe in, at least somewhat, is the difference between a person in jail and a slave.
 
Moses Mobetta

Moses Mobetta

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
These people knew the possible consequences of their action, they did not believe there should be such consequences but they performed the same contract all of us who do illegal things do. We agree that we have weighed the balance between benifit and cost and have decided that it is worth our while, worth the punishment to do what we do. Slaves had no such oportunity - especialy those who were born into slavery, born, owned.

That contract - contracts you seem to believe in, at least somewhat, is the difference between a person in jail and a slave.
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They are both injustices. Speak for yourself when you say youve decided it is worth your while please. Saying it like that makes it seem ok- maybe not your intention but it's not ok. Oppression by another name is still oppression. An injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
Moses Mobetta said:
They are both injustices. Speak for yourself when you say youve decided it is worth your while please. Saying it like that makes it seem ok- maybe not your intention but it's not ok. Oppression by another name is still oppression. An injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
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That they are both injustices does not make them equal in injustice. If you believe that your growing or your smoking is not worth the jail time then I suggest you do not smoke or grow because that is the bargain. This is the reality of it, it is neither good nor bad, it simply is the bargain we make with ourselves.

I believe I said "worth the jail time", what I mean is worth the risk of jail time.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
This is a far fetch, as Read some books by slaves or former slaves and then pretend that you are explaining to that man or woman that the DEA is "like" their master and Pot laws are "like" slavery and were they to be able to speak, they would laugh in your face at the thought that slavery was "like" anything else.


Slavery is not the "absence" of anything. It is about the ownership of one person by another. Government and even corporations don't own us and there really is no such thing as "partial" slavery. As I have said, your being taken out and whipped for the fun of it or for a perceived offense and your having NO recourse for that having occured is far from any example you might put forth as to why you are a "slave".
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Your emotional response for those who were enslaved in this country years ago is noted. I'm not downplaying that kind of slavery...that's the kind that many people think of as the ONLY kind of slavery. Yes it was horrible and probably worse in most instances than some of the kinds of slavery that exist today.

I think we agree that slavery is about the ownership of another. Tell me again that YOU and YOU ALONE are free to own your body in the United States...oh wait, you aren't are you?

I'll leave you with these thoughts...

Harriet Tubman said, " I freed a thousand slaves. I could have freed a thousand more if only they had known they were slaves.

Johann Wolfgang Goethe said, "none are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free"
 
Moses Mobetta

Moses Mobetta

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
That they are both injustices does not make them equal in injustice. If you believe that your growing or your smoking is not worth the jail time then I suggest you do not smoke or grow because that is the bargain. This is the reality of it, it is neither good nor bad, it simply is the bargain we make with ourselves.

I believe I said "worth the jail time", what I mean is worth the risk of jail time.
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They are both injustices - not equally but along the lines that a person does not truly own their own body. We have no true freedom with our own physical being. Illusion of freedom exists far beyond the reality. Illusion we need protection from ourselves by the government. What we need protection from is the government, an idea the Founding Fathers clearly had in mind in setting up the government in the first place.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
These people knew the possible consequences of their action, they did not believe there should be such consequences but they performed the same contract all of us who do illegal things do. We agree that we have weighed the balance between benifit and cost and have decided that it is worth our while, worth the punishment to do what we do. Slaves had no such oportunity - especialy those who were born into slavery, born, owned.

That contract - contracts you seem to believe in, at least somewhat, is the difference between a person in jail and a slave.
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The line you said that makes the most sense is "born into slavery". THAT happens today doesn't it ? Is a person today free to act in a manner that harms nobody, yet offends some arbitrary must do this or not do that kind of law? Isn't that a form of "born into slavery" ?
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
Your emotional response for those who were enslaved in this country years ago is noted. I'm not downplaying that kind of slavery...that's the kind that many people think of as the ONLY kind of slavery. Yes it was horrible and probably worse in most instances than some of the kinds of slavery that exist today.

I think we agree that slavery is about the ownership of another. Tell me again that YOU and YOU ALONE are free to own your body in the United States...oh wait, you aren't are you?

I'll leave you with these thoughts...

Harriet Tubman said, " I freed a thousand slaves. I could have freed a thousand more if only they had known they were slaves.

Johann Wolfgang Goethe said, "none are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free"
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You are indeed downplaying that sort of slavery by comparing something as trivial in comparison as prison.


I can take my body where I please, I can do with it what I wish. What I cannot do is posess certain items or manufacture or grow certain items. These are very different than being a slave.

Note I have posted to you before that I was well aware of how I am manipulated in this culture.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Moses Mobetta said:
They are both injustices - not equally but along the lines that a person does not truly own their own body. We have no true freedom with our own physical being. Illusion of freedom exists far beyond the reality. Illusion we need protection from ourselves by the government. What we need protection from is the government, an idea the Founding Fathers clearly had in mind in setting up the government in the first place.
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Agreed, both are injustices and the ways the slavery is implemented is a matter of degrees and perception or the lack of perception and recognition by some.
Nor do people truly own their property. I know of people who have had their homes seized....had their kids stolen....been put in cages with others that HAVE harmed people. That's not a system I'm willing to ignore or defend.
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
Moses Mobetta said:
They are both injustices - not equally but along the lines that a person does not truly own their own body. We have no true freedom with our own physical being. Illusion of freedom exists far beyond the reality. Illusion we need protection from ourselves by the government. What we need protection from is the government, an idea the Founding Fathers clearly had in mind in setting up the government in the first place.
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As I said, I know of no law that prevents you from the act of being high except in public places or operating heavy machinery. Correct me if I am wrong please.

What you need protection from are those that would subvert your free will. Government is a distant second on that list. You and I see freedom as a completely different thing and we see choice differently as well.
 
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