OceanForest/HappyFrog Soil do you feed in addition or just water?

DankTankerous

DankTankerous

Well-Known Member
Soil Recipe
33% Happy Frog
33% Ocean Forest
33% Perlite/hydroton

My plants are growing kind of slow and have a papery texture and are showing signs of illness. Every time I foiliar feed (Alfalfa, Kelp, IPM, Microblast, Kashi Tea, and Fulvex) they react as if they really needed it. Leaves are praying and have strength but between waterings they’re somewhat down.

So I’m thinking of adding a quarter to half dose of Neptune’s Fish Hydrolysate and Fish Emulsion. Since the amendments are breaking down slowly I could see how giving some fish feed could help.

Anybody have any experience with this?

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This C99 was transplanted a week ago still droopy

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ShLUbY

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
DankTankerous said:
Soil Recipe
33% Happy Frog
33% Ocean Forest
33% Perlite/hydroton

My plants are growing kind of slow and have a papery texture and are showing signs of illness. Every time I foiliar feed (Alfalfa, Kelp, IPM, Microblast, Kashi Tea, and Fulvex) they react as if they really needed it. Leaves are praying and have strength but between waterings they’re somewhat down.

So I’m thinking of adding a quarter to half dose of Neptune’s Fish Hydrolysate and Fish Emulsion. Since the amendments are breaking down slowly I could see how giving some fish feed could help.

Anybody have any experience with this?

View attachment 4265432

This C99 was transplanted a week ago still droopy

View attachment 4265433

View attachment 4265434
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your thinking of adding liquid fert is actually counter productive. let the plants feed themselves. there is plenty of food in the soil. stop foliar feeding.

what is your watering schedule like?
 
DankTankerous

DankTankerous

Well-Known Member
ShLUbY said:
your thinking of adding liquid fert is actually counter productive. let the plants feed themselves. there is plenty of food in the soil. stop foliar feeding.

what is your watering schedule like?
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I give them about 4-6 cups of water every 5 days with a teaspoon of Blackstrap Molasses, ful-humex, and Silicate
 
ShLUbY

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
DankTankerous said:
I give them about 4-6 cups of water every 5 days with a teaspoon of Blackstrap Molasses, ful-humex, and Silicate
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ok this post is making more and more sense now.

how big are those pots? 5 or so gallon?

quit the additives for now, especially the molasses. the soil has the nurients, and the plant needs the microbes to go and harvest those nutrients. the plant supplies the sugars to the microbes in exchange for nutrients. by adding sugars to the water, you are discouraging them from getting sugars from the plant. not to mention you are creating a bacterial frenzy in your soil, which is an incomplete food web. do you have worms in your pots? if it's not froze and winter outside, go harvest some from the wild. they will help with the food web, no matter what species they are.
 
DankTankerous

DankTankerous

Well-Known Member
ShLUbY said:
ok this post is making more and more sense now.

how big are those pots? 5 or so gallon?

quit the additives for now, especially the molasses. the soil has the nurients, and the plant needs the microbes to go and harvest those nutrients. the plant supplies the sugars to the microbes in exchange for nutrients. by adding sugars to the water, you are discouraging them from getting sugars from the plant. not to mention you are creating a bacterial frenzy in your soil, which is an incomplete food web. do you have worms in your pots? if it's not froze and winter outside, go harvest some from the wild. they will help with the food web, no matter what species they are.
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They are three gal smart pots. Should I not top dress with Kashi either? I always thought you could water with Blackstrap each time... or at least that’s what I have read.

I have a Worm Bin so i’ll have some
 
ShLUbY

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
DankTankerous said:
They are three gal smart pots. Should I not top dress with Kashi either? I always thought you could water with Blackstrap each time... or at least that’s what I have read.

I have a Worm Bin so i’ll have some
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no more blackstrap. unnecessary. discourages the plant/microbe relationship.

you can topdress with kashi... but right now they dont need it. remember, think about the soil and not the plant.

ok so a 3 gal pol you're giving a gallon every 5 days or so?? I would maybe try switching it to like a half gallon every 2 or 3 days. remember with these soils, you don't want wet/dry cycles. you want consistent moisture all the time. of course too much moisture is a bad thing, so use your own judgement. no runoff. no light pots. just nice moist soil all the time. and the fact that you're in fabrics means they're evaporating a lot... make sure you don't leave the outer portion of the pot dry and crusty :)

you should see some improvement within a week or two. these things take time in soil!
 
DankTankerous

DankTankerous

Well-Known Member
ShLUbY said:
no more blackstrap. unnecessary. discourages the plant/microbe relationship.

you can topdress with kashi... but right now they dont need it. remember, think about the soil and not the plant.

ok so a 3 gal pol you're giving a gallon every 5 days or so?? I would maybe try switching it to like a half gallon every 2 or 3 days. remember with these soils, you don't want wet/dry cycles. you want consistent moisture all the time. of course too much moisture is a bad thing, so use your own judgement. no runoff. no light pots. just nice moist soil all the time. and the fact that you're in fabrics means they're evaporating a lot... make sure you don't leave the outer portion of the pot dry and crusty :)

you should see some improvement within a week or two. these things take time in soil!
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Dude. So much frustration here.
I water 4-6 cups (1/3 of a gallon) every 5 days. The outside is definitely dry. When watering the outer edge the water falls off to the side. My sides will be dry while the inside is still very wet. Also keep in mind 33% of my medium is perlite/hydroton, it drains very well. Idk maybe I should stop sticking my finger in the soil. Because my definition of dry is like desert dry, no moisture to the touch.

Should I also stop using fabric pots. They seem pretty hard to master.

If you look back in my journal this is a problem I’m consistently having, and It seems like I can’t get a consistent concise answer. I have read so many how to water cannabis plants articles or blogs and it all says the same thing and I try to emulate that and nothing
 
ChronicWonders.

ChronicWonders.

Well-Known Member
You can’t let the pots dry out. I feel at this point you may have to take out the soil and repot the plants to save them. Your dirt around the edges has become probably so dry it’s hydrophobic and only directing the water to the center and creating root rot. With those smart pots I water the soil gradually as I fill it with soil to make sure there are no dry spots.

Maybe drip irrigation/blumats etc., or just scrap the fabric pot. But with the fabric pots you don’t want your outsides ever to be bone dry. There’s lots of people that won’t use the smaller fabric pots because of this reason and stick to >7 gal because the soil doesn’t dry out as fast.
 
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B

Beachwalker

Well-Known Member
DankTankerous said:
Dude. So much frustration here.
I water 4-6 cups (1/3 of a gallon) every 5 days. The outside is definitely dry. When watering the outer edge the water falls off to the side. My sides will be dry while the inside is still very wet. Also keep in mind 33% of my medium is perlite/hydroton, it drains very well. Idk maybe I should stop sticking my finger in the soil. Because my definition of dry is like desert dry, no moisture to the touch.

Should I also stop using fabric pots. They seem pretty hard to master.

If you look back in my journal this is a problem I’m consistently having, and It seems like I can’t get a consistent concise answer. I have read so many how to water cannabis plants articles or blogs and it all says the same thing and I try to emulate that and nothing
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You're overthinking it, try this:

Fill & set a pot full of your dry medium aside

when you think you want to water compare the weight of the plant thats set aside dry and the plant you want to water

when they are both the same weight is when you want to water in soil.

Going forward I hope this helps, good luck!

ps. (Add only 20 - 25% perlite max.)
 
ShLUbY

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
DankTankerous said:
Dude. So much frustration here.
I water 4-6 cups (1/3 of a gallon) every 5 days. The outside is definitely dry. When watering the outer edge the water falls off to the side. My sides will be dry while the inside is still very wet. Also keep in mind 33% of my medium is perlite/hydroton, it drains very well. Idk maybe I should stop sticking my finger in the soil. Because my definition of dry is like desert dry, no moisture to the touch.

Should I also stop using fabric pots. They seem pretty hard to master.

If you look back in my journal this is a problem I’m consistently having, and It seems like I can’t get a consistent concise answer. I have read so many how to water cannabis plants articles or blogs and it all says the same thing and I try to emulate that and nothing
Click to expand...
you added 33% more perlite/hydrotron... in addition to what already comes in the bagged soil? or did you try to account for what was already in your mixes and the total is 33%?

and yeah, seems like your watering habits are a little on the light side. you don't have to stop using fabrics, but you are correct, they take some getting used to. nothing that can't be handled. i actually prefer fabrics because the root system establishes better than in plastics (in plastic they seem to just spiral around and around rather than colonizing the entire growing medium.

another thing you might want to note is that when the outside soil gets dry, it pulls the inner moisture to compensate, which competes with the capillary action of the roots... so they may be struggling to get water. your plants have that ridge looking texture to the leaves, lots of peaks and valleys and don't look fully hydrated. mature leaves should be nice and flat and full of moisture.

remember, avoid the wet/dry cycle (not that you were trying but you get what i'm saying). work on hydrating that soil. water small amounts gradually, often over the next few days. even if you water a quart every several hours. the goal is to get it to stop running out of the pot, so small amounts at a time work best. I'm sure you'll see some improvements between that and stopping the additives in the water :)
 
DankTankerous

DankTankerous

Well-Known Member
ShLUbY said:
you added 33% more perlite/hydrotron... in addition to what already comes in the bagged soil? or did you try to account for what was already in your mixes and the total is 33%?

and yeah, seems like your watering habits are a little on the light side. you don't have to stop using fabrics, but you are correct, they take some getting used to. nothing that can't be handled. i actually prefer fabrics because the root system establishes better than in plastics (in plastic they seem to just spiral around and around rather than colonizing the entire growing medium.

another thing you might want to note is that when the outside soil gets dry, it pulls the inner moisture to compensate, which competes with the capillary action of the roots... so they may be struggling to get water. your plants have that ridge looking texture to the leaves, lots of peaks and valleys and don't look fully hydrated. mature leaves should be nice and flat and full of moisture.

remember, avoid the wet/dry cycle (not that you were trying but you get what i'm saying). work on hydrating that soil. water small amounts gradually, often over the next few days. even if you water a quart every several hours. the goal is to get it to stop running out of the pot, so small amounts at a time work best. I'm sure you'll see some improvements between that and stopping the additives in the water :)
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Thank you @ShLUbY do I need to transplant it or can I still get the soil evenly moisturized?
 
ShLUbY

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
Beachwalker said:
I recommend you do wet/dry cycles in soil. I've been using foxfarm soil for years and I don't recommend leaving plants wet all the time in soil, good luck
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this is incorrect for organic soils who's nutrient delivery depends on microorganisms and not from a bottle. microbial life requires water. if you let your soil dry, microbial life slows to a halt, and even goes dormant, which means that the plant stops getting fed due to the inhibited function of these populations. wet/dry cycles do not apply to organic living soils, anyone who specializes in this field will agree. once bottled nutrients are introduced, wet/dry does not matter because the plant gets nutrients in a soluble form, so it is not detrimental to the growing medium, which is why wet/dry works.
 
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DankTankerous

DankTankerous

Well-Known Member
ShLUbY said:
you added 33% more perlite/hydrotron... in addition to what already comes in the bagged soil? or did you try to account for what was already in your mixes and the total is 33%?

and yeah, seems like your watering habits are a little on the light side. you don't have to stop using fabrics, but you are correct, they take some getting used to. nothing that can't be handled. i actually prefer fabrics because the root system establishes better than in plastics (in plastic they seem to just spiral around and around rather than colonizing the entire growing medium.

another thing you might want to note is that when the outside soil gets dry, it pulls the inner moisture to compensate, which competes with the capillary action of the roots... so they may be struggling to get water. your plants have that ridge looking texture to the leaves, lots of peaks and valleys and don't look fully hydrated. mature leaves should be nice and flat and full of moisture.

remember, avoid the wet/dry cycle (not that you were trying but you get what i'm saying). work on hydrating that soil. water small amounts gradually, often over the next few days. even if you water a quart every several hours. the goal is to get it to stop running out of the pot, so small amounts at a time work best. I'm sure you'll see some improvements between that and stopping the additives in the water :)
Click to expand...
It’s it’s equal parts Ocean Forest including the perlite, Happy Frog including aeration, and perlite/hydroton so if we’re looking at the total soil aeration (perlite and hydroton) it’s more than half. A lot of people were saying it needs that much perlite and gave that exact percentage (33% not half). I saw this multiple times. and in the past I have had watering problems and I thought I was overwatering when maybe it was underwayered. So yeah I didn’t go with my gut (it’s too much perlite) and I did it.

There is a vast amount of information, styles, and opinions. It can become quite confusing. I mean look at all the contradicting opinions in this thread. I’m just going to practice patience and observation. I’m starting a Horticulture class at my community college this Winter/Spring. I’ll figure it out.

This clears up a lot though. Definitely not using Smartpots for my tomatoes outside. That’s probably why I harvested 2 tomatoes this last FALL not summer. I live in the south where temps were in the 90’s in May and I sprouted them indoors late February/early March. Couldn’t get my Cherokee Purple tomatoes to set. The soil was getting dried up.
 
DankTankerous

DankTankerous

Well-Known Member
Wrapped them up and have given them 16oz (2cups) every 3 hrs. So far they have been given 32oz in all. The outside does feel dry and crinkly so hopefully this will evenly rehydrate. I’m seeing some yellowing and even the Madcap #1 looks too yellow. On the C99 her leaves tips are turning yellow and there are burn spots. #2 you can see what looks like something might have bitten it? Who knows

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