Obamacare is Dead - Long Live Healthcare!

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Illegal Smile

Guest
The votes aren't there. The house can't pass the senate bill and the senate can't pass the house bill. Obama's monday proposal and the dog and pony show tomorrow are just for show - "look how hard I'm fighting." LOL

RIP Obama - Rest in Pieces!

Long live the party of HELL NO, WE WON'T TAKE IT ANYMORE!
 
ink the world

ink the world

Well-Known Member
We'll see. Im in Maine and I can tell you that Collins is getting crucified in her state for not supporting health care. Watch, she'll cave in to save her career. With health care reform being wanted by a majority of voters here she better, or she'll get booted next election.
 
ink the world

ink the world

Well-Known Member
Hoyer from the article you posted: "[FONT=Verdana,Sans-serif] if we can't, then you know me - if you can't do a whole, doing part is also good. I mean there are a number of things I think we can agree on."

Bottom line is this, something will get passed. There will be some kind of improvement over the current "system". Thats fine w/ me, at least we would be making progress.
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I

Illegal Smile

Guest
ink the world said:
Hoyer from the article you posted: "[FONT=Verdana,Sans-serif] if we can't, then you know me - if you can't do a whole, doing part is also good. I mean there are a number of things I think we can agree on."

Bottom line is this, something will get passed. There will be some kind of improvement over the current "system". Thats fine w/ me, at least we would be making progress.
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Yes, that may be, I'd be in favor of it. I also think there are areas that should be addressed to improve the system. But the dems don't want to pass the bill the republicans can agree on and the majority of the people would approve of. At least not until they are convinced they can't get more.

So instead of starting over now and getting it right, we have to play this game of trying to ram something through that doesn't have the votes and is against the will of the people. Only when dems can admit they have lost can we pick up the pieces.

But I agree, some dinky fine tuning bill will pass and Obama will try to claim credit for having saved the world.
 
undertheice

undertheice

Well-Known Member
ink the world said:
[FONT=Verdana,Sans-serif]if you can't do a whole, doing part is also good.[/FONT]
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what should have been done in the first place was to take small steps toward perfecting the existing system. instead the democrats wanted to remake the entire industry in their image and this is the root of the problems with the current legislation. the lunatic fringe that is now in control of the liberal establishment has tried to make these broad, sweeping changes and essentially man-handle the insurance industry into abandoning the profit motive that is the basis for the entire free market. doing nothing shouldn't be an option, but it becomes the only alternative when faced with such massive and destructive change.
 
I

Illegal Smile

Guest
undertheice said:
what should have been done in the first place was to take small steps toward perfecting the existing system. instead the democrats wanted to remake the entire industry in their image and this is the root of the problems with the current legislation. the lunatic fringe that is now in control of the liberal establishment has tried to make these broad, sweeping changes and essentially man-handle the insurance industry into abandoning the profit motive that is the basis for the entire free market. doing nothing shouldn't be an option, but it becomes the only alternative when faced with such massive and destructive change.
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And the reason "why" democrats say NO to any incremental solutions is because they fear with those issues solved, they could no longer muster support for their socialist takeover. So we go on and on suffering with problems that could be fixed because democrats insist that if they can't have their way, nobody gets anything.
 
upnorth2505

upnorth2505

New Member
undertheice said:
what should have been done in the first place was to take small steps toward perfecting the existing system. instead the democrats wanted to remake the entire industry in their image and this is the root of the problems with the current legislation. the lunatic fringe that is now in control of the liberal establishment has tried to make these broad, sweeping changes and essentially man-handle the insurance industry into abandoning the profit motive that is the basis for the entire free market. doing nothing shouldn't be an option, but it becomes the only alternative when faced with such massive and destructive change.
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Profit motive? How about unbridled, ravenous, never-ending greed?

The insurance industry isn't mearly part of the problem. For the most part they ARE the problem.

Profits at 10 of the country’s largest publicly traded health insurance companies in 2007 rose 428 percent from 2000 to 2007, from $2.4 billion to $12.9 billion, according to U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission filings.

And this statistic doesn't even include their most recent obscene premium increases of 20-40%. The insurance industry is second only to Wall-Street brokerage firms in granting stratospheric, outlandish compensation to its executives.

This is precisely the type of behaviour that has brought our nation's economy to its feet.

Not only should a public option be part of the deal, it should be a significant part of the deal.

That is why most of the Americans who previously supported health care reform dropped their support: No public option.
 
Dragline

Dragline

Well-Known Member
upnorth2505 said:
[
That is why most of the Americans who previously supported health care reform dropped their support: No public option.
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Exactly! I am about as liberal as you can get on the healthcare issue. I am extremely pissed Obama and the Dems caved on the public option. The public option was and still is VERY popular. I have never seen a party so scared to do the POPULAR thing like the Democrats are now.

As far as Republicans, they will not vote yes on ANYTHING. The only healthcare bill they would vote yes on would be the trivial bull shit they propose and ONLY the trivial bull shit they propose.
 
undertheice

undertheice

Well-Known Member
upnorth2505 said:
The insurance industry isn't merely part of the problem. For the most part they ARE the problem.
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the complete ignorance of what health insurance is meant to be is the problem. this strange belief that everyone should be able to receive top of the line medical services at the drop of a hat is the problem. the scapegoating of any industry that has the audacity to abide by sound business practices is the problem. while fools run around railing against the supposedly obscene profits raked in by insurance companies, what they fail to mention is that, even in our nearly illiterate society, the publishing industry's profit margin is more than twice that of health insurance providers. while pharmaceutical manufacturers and utility companies are running profit margins three, four or even five times that of the insurance industry, it is health insurance that is targeted simply because little jimmy can't get his flu shot on someone else's dime. the greedy mob has decided that they aren't getting enough free stuff and the cause celebres is now to bring the insurance companies to their knees. these are publicly traded companies, not charitable institutions, and to demand that they give away their services is to decimate the industry and flush away the investments of millions of americans.

by what right does anyone demand that their health care be subsidized by anyone else? that's what this is really all about, now isn't it. the anecdotal tirades of liberal talking heads amount to nothing more than the demand that government use its threat of violence to force the successful to foot the bill for the medical care of the indigent. the much touted public option is nothing more than another of government's useless give-aways designed to redistribute the wealth of the productive and bring an even larger portion of the market under the bureaucratic thumb of political hacks. it is an expansion of the welfare state that has been undermining the productivity of this country for decades and creating a permanent underclass. government run health care is just another ploy to strip private enterprise and the people themselves of what power they still retain. that the naive followers of the left should applaud this move toward totalitarianism is no great surprise, they have been seduced by the lies of their masters for so long that they can no longer tell the difference between reality and the illusions of comfort and security that our power hungry rulers have cast over us.

health insurance isn't a discount card, it is a safety net and a gamble that your premiums will amount to less than the cost of your future medical expenses. demanding that the odds of that wager be increasingly slanted away from the providers of this service would essentially kill off a large portion of one of the greatest economic powerhouses the world has ever known and it is a step we can ill afford as our global power weakens.
 
Dragline

Dragline

Well-Known Member
undertheice said:
the complete ignorance of what health insurance is meant to be is the problem. this strange belief that everyone should be able to receive top of the line medical services at the drop of a hat is the problem. the scapegoating of any industry that has the audacity to abide by sound business practices is the problem. while fools run around railing against the supposedly obscene profits raked in by insurance companies, what they fail to mention is that, even in our nearly illiterate society, the publishing industry's profit margin is more than twice that of health insurance providers. while pharmaceutical manufacturers and utility companies are running profit margins three, four or even five times that of the insurance industry, it is health insurance that is targeted simply because little jimmy can't get his flu shot on someone else's dime. the greedy mob has decided that they aren't getting enough free stuff and the cause celebres is now to bring the insurance companies to their knees. these are publicly traded companies, not charitable institutions, and to demand that they give away their services is to decimate the industry and flush away the investments of millions of americans.

by what right does anyone demand that their health care be subsidized by anyone else? that's what this is really all about, now isn't it. the anecdotal tirades of liberal talking heads amount to nothing more than the demand that government use its threat of violence to force the successful to foot the bill for the medical care of the indigent. the much touted public option is nothing more than another of government's useless give-aways designed to redistribute the wealth of the productive and bring an even larger portion of the market under the bureaucratic thumb of political hacks. it is an expansion of the welfare state that has been undermining the productivity of this country for decades and creating a permanent underclass. government run health care is just another ploy to strip private enterprise and the people themselves of what power they still retain. that the naive followers of the left should applaud this move toward totalitarianism is no great surprise, they have been seduced by the lies of their masters for so long that they can no longer tell the difference between reality and the illusions of comfort and security that our power hungry rulers have cast over us.

health insurance isn't a discount card, it is a safety net and a gamble that your premiums will amount to less than the cost of your future medical expenses. demanding that the odds of that wager be increasingly slanted away from the providers of this service would essentially kill off a large portion of one of the greatest economic powerhouses the world has ever known and it is a step we can ill afford as our global power weakens.
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Words and sentiment that have been echoed by many. Yet I wonder how many still feel the same when they or a loved one are dropped from insurance when they need it most. Then try to buy more with their "pre existing condition".
 
dukeofbaja

dukeofbaja

New Member
Or, to simply have to look for insurance with a pre-existing condition. My lady pays over 10% of her income for health insurance. That number is only set to rise, possibly double over the next 10 years.
 
F

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
Illegal Smile said:
The votes aren't there. The house can't pass the senate bill and the senate can't pass the house bill. Obama's monday proposal and the dog and pony show tomorrow are just for show - "look how hard I'm fighting." LOL

RIP Obama - Rest in Pieces!

Long live the party of HELL NO, WE WON'T TAKE IT ANYMORE!
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i think i should just merge all your threads into one big "i hate obama" thread. ;-)
 
I

Illegal Smile

Guest
Here's an interesting theory - Rush said today that he thinks the whole purpose now is to pass blame for nothing passing to congress. If nothing (or something mild) passes itdoesn't help... (you know who) to blame republicans. They'll just say damn right we said no and ride that right into the election. But he can say that factions of the dem party were unwilling to come together, which would be true, and so what's an historic president to do?
 
R

redivider

Well-Known Member
illegal smile doesn't seem to understand that the majority of people voted for obama because he wanted to provide affordable health-care for all americans.

i guess he thinks the antiquated and inefficient system in place now pleases him

he enjoys relishing the fact that america is lagging behind other industrialized nations when it comes to health care.

second place is the first looser. i think americans life expectancy is number what?? 74?? let's see it fall lower, maybe one day this system will take us to having life expectancy rates akin to those of countries in africa, while insurance companies and pharmaceuticals continue to drive costs UP and their financials make record profits year-after-year, maybe then he will see the light..........
 
undertheice

undertheice

Well-Known Member
redivider said:
.....the majority of people voted for obama because he wanted to provide affordable health-care for all americans.
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why is it that every time the road gets bumpy for the obama crew someone comes along and claims that the troubling issue at hand is "the reason america voted for obama". the reason this amateur was voted into the oval office is that he promised an administration that was post-partisan and transparent and that the american people had gotten it into their heads that "the other guys" would get us out of our unpopular predicament in the middle east. sure, the idea of fixing our health care dilemma was great, but no one wanted him to come in and dismantle an industry that is only in need of proper regulation and we certainly didn't want another red tape laden government bureaucracy to be built on its ashes.
 
I

Illegal Smile

Guest
"How to Lower The Cost of Healthcare by Giving Away a Lot More Of It For Free"

BY: Barack Obama

author of: "Creating Private Sector Jobs By Taking More Money From The Private Sector"
 
RickWhite

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
Is anyone here really qualified to judge how our health care compares to the rest of the world? Last I checked, we lead the way in invention, innovation, capabilities, drug development and just about every other area. If a person needs advanced medical treatment there is no other place a person wants to be than here in the US. And one would think there is a reason why world leaders from countries with socialized medicine come here for their own treatment.

Does anyone ever consider the fact that America is 3rd in population size behind only China and India. The efficacy of Socialist systems and Government in general tends to be inversely proportionate to population size. Canada has 1/12 as many people as we do and many Canadians are unhappy with their system. What do you think it will be like when Shaniqua at the DMV is in charge of health care for 300 million? Get a clue, this isn't Sweden - we don't have a teeny tiny homogeneous population of proud productive people. Trust me, the Government doesn't make a big effort to hire our best and brightest - in fact they have very heavy hiring quotas. So, the people in charge of your health care will likely be someone hired due to their race and not their ability - this is a fact.

You must also understand that you can't go by statistics alone. While Cuba may report a higher life expectancy (which may be Government propaganda), they also eat nothing but fish and fresh fruit and vegetables. It probably isn't too often that they go out for ribs or order pizza delivery. The US is not Sweden or Norway or even Canada - you just can't make comparisons without having all the facts.

The one thing we know for sure is that capitalism usually produces a better result that socialism and that the US is head and shoulders above every other country with regard to innovation, invention and technology. We can do things here those other countries can not and it is all due to capitalism.

That being said, I think there is much room for improvement and I think proper regulations can bring costs way down for everyone. But letting the government take over the whole kit and caboodle is sure to be a disaster - always has, always will.
 
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