Obama Stimulus Plan Dangerous to Your Health..CODE RED.

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HotNSexyMILF

Well-Known Member
Obama Stimulus Plan Dangerous to Your Health
seniors in the U.S. will face similar rationing.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&refer=columnist_mccaughey&sid=aLzfDxfbwhzs


One new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective.

The goal is to reduce costs and “guide” your doctor’s decisions (442, 446).

According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and “learn to operate less like solo practitioners.”

he goal, Daschle’s book explained, is to slow the development and use of new medications and technologies because they are driving up costs.

That means you will die more quickly due to lack of the latest medical advances.

Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them.

The stimulus bill would change that and apply a cost- effectiveness standard set by the Federal Council (464).

It is cheaper to the let the patient die, than to treat them.

In 2006, a U.K. health board decreed that elderly patients with macular degeneration had to wait until they went blind in one eye before they could get a costly new drug to save the other eye. It took almost three years of public protests before the board reversed its decision.



Putting a price on life itself.. :wall:
 
ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member
Excellent article, MILF ...

This is what socialism always does ... it rations services.

Does anyone remember when the Pope referred to "The Culture of Death" in the West? He wasn't just referring to the abortion situation. The second part was euthanasia. I mean, an inconvenient life is an inconvenient live, no?

Psst ... don't tell grandma or grandpa.


Vi
 
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max420thc

Well-Known Member
we can always fly to china and have any major surgery done ,you are correct.as much as the government fucks up .why not give them total control of around 1/3 of the us economy.sure..why not.they fuck up everything they touch lets let them control our very lifes.people in this country are slaves to the government now.in a couple of years ,that is if we dont have a total revolution . we will all be slaves to the government
 
TheBrutalTruth

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
max420thc said:
we can always fly to china and have any major surgery done ,you are correct.as much as the government fucks up .why not give them total control of around 1/3 of the us economy.sure..why not.they fuck up everything they touch lets let them control our very lifes.people in this country are slaves to the government now.in a couple of years ,that is if we dont have a total revolution . we will all be slaves to the government
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Aren't we all, already?
 
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max420thc

Well-Known Member
TheBrutalTruth said:
Aren't we all, already?
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some of us are .
there are a few free men left
im sure there are some on this forum .
to have freedom on this country/world you have to have economic freedom.
debt is what enslaves people.the funny thing is they do this stuff to themselfs.they go buy shit they cant afford and live off of credit working like crazy to try and pay for shit they thought they needed.a old man told me one time when i was a younger man.he asked me this question.
do you know what the most expensive thing you will ever purchase will be in your life?.my answer being young and ignorant was .a house.he told me NO. interest interest buys nothing it saves nothing it is work and production lost for all of time.
the best book i can recommend to anyone is a book written by one of my libertarian heros.harry brown. the title of the book is how i found freedom in a unfree world.
:leaf:
 
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HotNSexyMILF

Well-Known Member
I always love how the stuff that really doesn't matter is the "big hits" of these forums.. yet the stuff that is REALLY frightening is overlooked.. so sad..

This is the sickest thing I've seen our government try to do in a long time (and that sure is saying something).. this is straight from Brave New World.. who gives the government the right to put a price on life itself?! Why should some "cost effectiveness formula" be applied to your LIFE. Where is the love and respect for our seniors? THIS IS EUGENICS.. PLAIN AND SIMPLE..
 
xochipili

xochipili

Active Member
Great thread Milf! I'm glad I read this, although to be subjective, politicians look at the health care system as a business, and when businesses arent doing well, they are treated shrewdly, without looking at the human cost of things, yet no one ever said that capitalism was ever humane. At my union meetings, our leaders and delegates are going throught the same thing, 40% of what a contractor pays goes towards our health care benefits, and is almost literally making us price ourselves out of the market, making us decide whether to take a pay cut, or lose some health care benefits. Our delegates our preaching to us to take preventative treatments ( like the Canadian govt. says to their people) as in stop smoking, drinking, eat better and live healthier, to avoid costly treatments when we get older, from living like we are invincable when we are younger. I dont think this is Eugenics, that means we would have to kill or sterilize weak and unhealthy people so they dont sire more weak and unhealthy people that drain the system, which is exactly what we do to our Canine friends, in order to produce a stronger healthier breed that go on to sire more strong and healthy offspring. I just love how these rich Senators and politicians tell these poor seniors to just accept their fate, while these hypocrits would likely spend more than the average american would make in his/her lifetime on himself to keep his old ass alive. How much do you think Cheney spends to stay alive? Hope I dont sound to crass, again great thread!
 
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HotNSexyMILF

Well-Known Member
Exactly, that's what eugenics is.. and this is it. Seniors are asked to "deal with their fate" because it's not "cost efficient" for them to be alive. The bill doesn't just specifically pick out seniors, it picks out whatever procedures are considered "not cost effective" by a bureaucratic council. This will most certainly include seniors and people who are deemed terminal. That would be killing people who are "weak".. the "undesirables"..

Though you can certainly have eugenics without sterilization laws, I'm supposing you haven't seen the articles on proposed legistlation is some states to give people cash incentives to get sterilized..

I don't see this as a side effect of capitalism though (as if we even have such a thing in this country) but as a side effect of socialism...
 
H

HotNSexyMILF

Well-Known Member
ViRedd said:
Excellent article, MILF ...

This is what socialism always does ... it rations services.

Does anyone remember when the Pope referred to "The Culture of Death" in the West? He wasn't just referring to the abortion situation. The second part was euthanasia. I mean, an inconvenient life is an inconvenient live, no?

Psst ... don't tell grandma or grandpa.


Vi
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Price controls also cause rationing of services and goods.. another lesson of history to keep in mind during these ecnomic times ahead..

The useless eaters.. that is how we the slaves are looked upon..
 
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SylvanElf

Well-Known Member
Technology is a wonderful thing but not all people deserve all treatments especially if the government and my tax dollars are funding them. No one is saying you cannot have any procedure you can afford, just that the government is not going to pay for all of them at the expense of those who, in most cases, take care of themselves (e.g., eat right, exercise, don't smoke, etc.) to begin with. Why should we (the taxpayers) fund the morbidly obese patient who won't stop eating or chronic smokers who voluntarily destroy thier lives. Personal responsibilty in this Nation would do wonders at weening us all from the government health care sytstem. There are a small percentage of citizens who, due to no fault of ther own, need government health assistance but they are overshadowed by those who feel they are "entitled" to every procedure or treatment, regardless of cost to the taxpayers as a whole or adverse personal behaviour.
 
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SylvanElf

Well-Known Member
All this being said MILF, I agree with you and think this "stimulus bill" is going to hurt us more than it will help. Sometimes doing nothing is the correct course of action, this would be one of those times.
 
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HotNSexyMILF

Well-Known Member
Getting government the hell out of the way would be the best course of action, lol. for sure..

I agree about self responsibility, but I'm arguing under how things are currently.. and currently a portion of my man's check is stolen every month to fund Medicare.. so that the government can "make sure as seniors we have insurance".. now this is something we are not free to opt out of, because the government decided they thought they were more "capable" of handling such important things.. (just like social security, but that is another government ponzi, I'd rather not digress).. this was supposed to benefit those who couldn't afford (or weren't "smart enough"?) to have good private health care in their senior years.. and now, the rug is pulled out. You will no longer have the freedom to choose the treatments of your health care..

On top of it.. read the article again carefully.. this isn't JUST to be imposed on those using government insurance.. all medical records and decisions by doctors will be guided by this Federal Council.. Doctors who are not "friendly users" of the new system will be penalized...
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
Health care should be a right, not a for profit entity. All for profit entities tend to cut any and all things that will effect the bottom line. That's how private enterprise works. Untill we have true single payer not for profit medical, your healthcare will be based on the cheapest way to serve you with your health being last on the list, just look at the present system with HMOs cutting and denying services on a regular basis. The current medical system is designed to make as much money per individual as is possible, with your health being a not very important by-product. This "new" information only plays into the for profit health care we already have. Of course insurance companies and HMOs don't really care if you live or die. You're just a number to them, and the healthier you stay, the less it costs them.
 
CrackerJax

CrackerJax

New Member
The stimulus bill starts out like all great deceptions with a big lie. This bill is not a stimulus at all. But once that lie is swallowed, and it has been (baah bahh), the rest is easy. I saw people actually clapping when the deal was finally approved...... I just rolled my eyes and was thankful i had the foresight to get offshore in July. Can things go from bad to worse? Sure, and it will.


out. :blsmoke:
 
TheBrutalTruth

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
medicineman said:
Health care should be a right, not a for profit entity. All for profit entities tend to cut any and all things that will effect the bottom line. That's how private enterprise works. Untill we have true single payer not for profit medical, your healthcare will be based on the cheapest way to serve you with your health being last on the list, just look at the present system with HMOs cutting and denying services on a regular basis. The current medical system is designed to make as much money per individual as is possible, with your health being a not very important by-product. This "new" information only plays into the for profit health care we already have. Of course insurance companies and HMOs don't really care if you live or die. You're just a number to them, and the healthier you stay, the less it costs them.
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Medomao you have got to be the biggest idiot on these forums. This post has nothing to do with HMOs or the present health system (which works in a logical manner) it has to do with the fact that the government is attempting to take over control of health care.

The result of this attempt is that instead of ensuring that everyone is treated as needed the government is attempting to restrict access to medicine based on cost.

Now, if I was to say that your life is worth 1 mill ($.001, not $1,000,000) I'd imagine that you'd probably object to that valuation. Especially if I decided that since your life is worth that fraction of a cent that it means that the government no longer has to reimburse doctors that provide you with medical care.

This bill is doing nothing more than saying that the government is going to be able to apply values to the life of human beings. I can only state emphatically that this is a crock of bullshit.

Not that a person like you is going to be able to understand such a concept. In order to actually understand why this idea is stupid, idiotic, and nothing more than the vanity of unelected leaders that have forgotten that they are supposed to be public servants and not public masters you have to understand that our current tax system is nothing more than legalized involuntary servitude.

Of course such a concept is well beyond your ability to understand, probably because you were born around the time of that idiotic expansion of government power known as the great depression, and thus have this misbegotten notion that FDR actually helped the economy.
 
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HotNSexyMILF

Well-Known Member
CrackerJax said:
I saw people actually clapping when the deal was finally approved......
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I was at the bookstore yest., all the cashiers/managers were talking about how the Senate passed it, with remarks from the others "oh good".. "it still needs to be hammered out in the house, but don't worry, it will pass".. :wall:



Waiting until the situation is completely unbearable and we are shackled like slaves.. while the enemy stockpiles its weapons to use against us.. yeah.. that sounds like a winning plan..

Sit there.. do nothing, don't call your senator or rep., don't tell others, don't sound the alarm.. just sit there.. this defeatist mentality isn't going to accomplish anything.. They're making all the moves, and we're just sitting around going "when the time is right, ThEn we will do something, ThEn things will change.." All we ever has is NOW.. and nothing is getting done NOW.. :wall:
 
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HotNSexyMILF

Well-Known Member
TheBrutalTruth said:
This bill is doing nothing more than saying that the government is going to be able to apply values to the life of human beings. I can only state emphatically that this is a crock of bullshit.
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Bingo.. it's the sickest thing I have seen come from our government in a while (again, that is saying A LOT)...

How much are you worth to society.. to US.. by OUR rules. By UNELECTED OFFICIALS...

Someone please feed me some propaganda.. again.. how free are we??
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
HotNSexyMILF said:
Exactly, that's what eugenics is.. and this is it. Seniors are asked to "deal with their fate" because it's not "cost efficient" for them to be alive. The bill doesn't just specifically pick out seniors, it picks out whatever procedures are considered "not cost effective" by a bureaucratic council. This will most certainly include seniors and people who are deemed terminal. That would be killing people who are "weak".. the "undesirables"..

Though you can certainly have eugenics without sterilization laws, I'm supposing you haven't seen the articles on proposed legistlation is some states to give people cash incentives to get sterilized..

I don't see this as a side effect of capitalism though (as if we even have such a thing in this country) but as a side effect of socialism...
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Dear milf, this system already exists, it's called HMOs, or for profit medical. If your medical insurer cant make a profit, they cut services and procedures. If you need a kidney transplant, under current rules, he with the gold comes first. This notion that real medical care should only be for the rich is way out of line. Now the fact that only the rich can afford mansions or Bentlys, or 6 month vacations, that's another matter, but buying your way through medical emergencies is pure bullshit. Human life is as valuable to each individual as the next. That is precisely why most 1st world countries have a true not for profit medical system. Here is my take on the Kidney thing: If one came available and me and a 16 year old had the same condition, all things being equal except our age, the 16 year old should get the kidney. It's just common sense that I've already lived a good portion of my life and the youngster has his life ahead of him. It should go where it would do the most good. Profit and medical care are oxymorons.
 
TheBrutalTruth

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
medicineman said:
Dear milf, this system already exists, it's called HMOs, or for profit medical. If your medical insurer cant make a profit, they cut services and procedures. If you need a kidney transplant, under current rules, he with the gold comes first. This notion that real medical care should only be for the rich is way out of line. Now the fact that only the rich can afford mansions or Bentlys, or 6 month vacations, that's another matter, but buying your way through medical emergencies is pure bullshit. Human life is as valuable to each individual as the next. That is precisely why most 1st world countries have a true not for profit medical system. Here is my take on the Kidney thing: If one came available and me and a 16 year old had the same condition, all things being equal except our age, the 16 year old should get the kidney. It's just common sense that I've already lived a good portion of my life and the youngster has his life ahead of him. It should go where it would do the most good. Profit and medical care are oxymorons.
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Personally, I disagree, there's no telling how you might contribute to society in your old age. Besides, this is opening the door to allow the government to decide that since the 16 year old got Cirrhosis of the liver due to drinking that neither of you get the liver.

You wouldn't get it because you're old, and the 16 year old wouldn't get it because he's an alcoholic. What's more idiotic is that there would be no consideration of if either you or the 16 year old could afford the transplant.

It is not a decision that the government should make. It is a decision that society should make.

Besides, that's an extreme example. A more relevant example would be the government deciding that people with diabetes should not be allowed to have medical care due to their pre-existing condition which is going to cause the degeneration of their body over time. Especially if they do not exercise proper care to keep that condition under control.

Completely, and totally absurd. The government is not, and should not, be allowed to act like the owner of our lives. It should not be allowed to decide how to spend our tax dollars.

Besides, what's more absurd is that you've probably paid a sufficient amount in taxes to the government to justify the expense of providing you with the transplant, where the 16 year old hasn't.

In essence, you have already contributed to society, thus should get some benefit. Unlike the 16 year old which has yet to contribute anything meaningful to society. For all you know the reason why the 16 year old needs the kidney is because they were suicidal and poisoned themselves by repeatedly trying to overdose. What good does it do to society if the 16 year old promptly wastes the kidney by killing themselves?
 
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