now that its passed

also i got to say that anything the goverment passes usually is a SHIT IDEA. Obama just had the shit idea of the last couple decades. There are just to many things that i could go into but dont want to bother with. Read the facts of the bill from both a liberal and conservative point of view and it will become clear for most.

londonfog said:

hmmmm so you think that ALL govenment is out to get you...question ...your fire dept. is part of your government do you fear them as well....what about the DMV are they going to get you too....???? hmmmmmm how do you get out the house ...are you not frightful of those highways that are built and maintained by our government....dude its a time to fear and then there is just straight paranoia... so again I say if my child needs insurance from daddy ( or mommy) until she is 26 I say good job government for making that happen...now how lost are you little scary guy....BOO

Click to expand...

There's nothing wrong with helping your own kids. Help them as long as you like.

Insisting that your "children" of 26 be subsidized by everybody else is a bit
much though. At least a girl paying her bills by "dancing on a pole" is not stealing from somebody else is she?

All government is not "out to get us" in the sense that the lower level bureaucrats believe they actively participate in it everyday. It is a bit more shrouded than that. Some do not even realize their paychecks are paid through invloluntary methods.

All government relies on it's existence to fund itself through forcible extraction though....In that sense it is not hard to extrapolate the "out to get us" part, since participation in funding them is not voluntary. The MAFIA works the same way. If you don't pay them they hurt you...so does the organization you claim is not "out to get us".

Extortion's meaning remains the same regardless of who is doing the extorting doesn't it?

Rob Roy said:

There's nothing wrong with helping your own kids. Help them as long as you like.

Insisting that your "children" of 26 be subsidized by everybody else is a bit
much though. At least a girl paying her bills by "dancing on a pole" is not stealing from somebody else is she?

All government is not "out to get us" in the sense that the lower level bureaucrats believe they actively participate in it everyday. It is a bit more shrouded than that. Some do not even realize their paychecks are paid through invloluntary methods.

All government relies on it's existence to fund itself through forcible extraction though....In that sense it is not hard to extrapolate the "out to get us" part, since participation in funding them is not voluntary. The MAFIA works the same way. If you don't pay them they hurt you...so does the organization you claim is not "out to get us".

Extortion's meaning remains the same regardless of who is doing the extorting doesn't it?

Click to expand...

??????? my child staying on my insurance is not being subsidize by anyone but me and my wife who in turn pay for the insurance....only thing they are doing is extending the time the child can be on it...believe me you would be paying for it if the child is not insured and he/she needed to go to the emergency room and not pay...so what are you talking about that you would subsidized my child because the new law would extend her coverage time...how do you pay for that ????

londonfog said:

??????? my child staying on my insurance is not being subsidize by anyone but me and my wife who in turn pay for the insurance....only thing they are doing is extending the time the child can be on it...believe me you would be paying for it if the child is not insured and he/she needed to go to the emergency room and not pay...so what are you talking about that you would subsidized my child because the new law would extend her coverage time...how do you pay for that ????

Click to expand...

Sorry if I was unclear or mistaken. If you pay for somebody by your choice, regardless of their age, I have no problem with that.

If a system is implemented that insists others pay for somebody against their will, I have a problem with that.

If a system is implemented that forces private business to bend to an arbitrary age limit set by government what do we have then? Why should government decide what a private business will do any more than they should decide what a private person would do?

If government left business alone, there would be a market need waiting to be met, a business opportunity would exist. Market needs are fulfilled by the free market, not the controlled market.

Artificial manipulation and regulation of free markets is the problem, not the solution. For example the "war on drugs" has created an artificial market. Without government intervention, pot prices would be much lower. Take regulation away and the truly free market will drive prices down.

yes I do think you are mistaken about parts of the bill...you will not be paying for my child who will be staying on our insurance... Question do you pay for SS ??????

londonfog said:

yes I do think you are mistaken about parts of the bill...you will not be paying for my child who will be staying on our insurance... Question do you pay for SS ??????

Click to expand...

If you are paying for your child and I am not, that is fine with me. I don't want to pay for others "children", nor do I want others to pay for mine. I believe the plan wuld be to subsidize others. I don't believe in forcing people to subsidize others, therefore I will not do it or participate. Voluntary is good, involuntary is not.

Concerning SS, I assume you mean social security? I have paid in, in years past. This was accomplished through involuntary payroll deduction. I doubt I will ever get any back. I do not intend to use it, nor ever pay any in again.

Your point?

Rob Roy said:

If you are paying for your child and I am not, that is fine with me. I don't want to pay for others "children", nor do I want others to pay for mine. I believe the plan wuld be to subsidize others. I don't believe in forcing people to subsidize others, therefore I will not do it or participate. Voluntary is good, involuntary is not.

Concerning SS, I assume you mean social security? I have paid in, in years past. This was accomplished through involuntary payroll deduction. I doubt I will ever get any back. I do not intend to use it, nor ever pay any in again.

Your point?

Click to expand...

You one of the few that don't pay SS. So I guess your mom and dad never collected on SS either...My point is I pay SS and gladly in the hopes that people like my parents as well as yours can get that benefit. I in turn would hope that my children would do the same for me and you in mind ( if needed). I know that my grandparents use SS as well as their retirement to help them live, pay for home, and still raise a beautiful family...I guess your family must be different from mind..We do believe in helping each other without the fear of what "I" would be losing...I feel I always receive more when I help others...just works out that way.


I assume that you don't have kids ???

londonfog said:

hmmmm so you think that ALL govenment is out to get you...question ...your fire dept. is part of your government do you fear them as well....what about the DMV are they going to get you too....???? hmmmmmm how do you get out the house ...are you not frightful of those highways that are built and maintained by our government....dude its a time to fear and then there is just straight paranoia... so again I say if my child needs insurance from daddy ( or mommy) until she is 26 I say good job government for making that happen...now how lost are you little scary guy....BOO

Click to expand...

yes their all 'out to get you' whether or not they all even realize it..fire fighter wants a raise and wants to hire more fire fighters. DMV worker wants more benifits and to hire more workers. the nature of these agencys is to try to maintain their positions and expand them..govt is like a parisite or a leetch living off of hard working people. parking enforcement is a great example. we pay for PUBLIC roads which by the way they say it is a priviledge not a right to drive on? anyways parking officers were ment to keep someone from blocking your driveway so that you can drive out and go to work and to keep people from parking in the middle of a road where it would be dangerous or block traffic now their are a lot of parking officers and they drive around in Govt cars that you paid for looking for someone who"s parking meter expired or who is parked in a red zone they painted to create parking violations...they circle arould looking to fine you and tow your car not to improve your day or quality of life but because you are the revinue source that gives them job security.

beardo said:

yes their all 'out to get you' whether or not they all even realize it..fire fighter wants a raise and wants to hire more fire fighters. DMV worker wants more benifits and to hire more workers. the nature of these agencys is to try to maintain their positions and exp[and them..govt is like a parisite or a leetch living off of hard working people. parking enforcement is a great example. we pay for PUBLIC roads which by the way they say it is a priviledge not a right to drive on? anyways parking officers were ment to keep someone from blocking your driveway so that you can drive out and go to work and to keep people from parking in the middle of a road where it would be dangerous or block traffic now their are a lot of parking officers and they drive around in Govt cars that you paid for looking for someone who"s parking meater expired or who is parked in a red zone they painted to create parking violations...they circle arould looking to fine you and tow your car not to improve your day or quality of life but because you are the revinue source that gives them job security.

Click to expand...

WOW....should I fear the library too ????

the people ARE the government. your neighbor works for the DMV.

For all those against the gov getting involved in heathcare reform, what is your solution for people who buy insurance, pay their premiums, and then when they get sick ( i dont mean a simple cold or visit to a GP) the insurance companies do everything they can to not pay or delay payment. What do you suggest is the answer to a person like myself who works for a large fortune 100 company. Worked 50+ hrs per week for 15 years and then when I want to change jobs found out that I would not be able to get insurance again because I now have what they call pre-existing condition? I tried every insurance company out there and what I have is nothing as serious as cancer or heart disease.

I am not looking for a handout. I have worked since I was teenager. I am looking for someway to make sure that if I pay for something, I get what I paid for. I am looking for a way to have freedom to change jobs or start a business and have access to a affordable healthcare. I was healthy my whole life until my mid 30's and really never thought much about healthcare or how it worked. Now I see what a mess it is with for profit insurance companies and no one to hold them accountable.

So I ask, do you not thinks its good to have oversight over things like insurance, food inspection, financial institutions so the little people are not taken advantage. I dont have the money to go get lawyers and fight them and if I did they would be able to get better and more lawyers to make it damned if I do and damned if I don't.

londonfog said:

You one of the few that don't pay SS. So I guess your mom and dad never collected on SS either...My point is I pay SS and gladly in the hopes that people like my parents as well as yours can get that benefit. I in turn would hope that my children would do the same for me and you in mind ( if needed). I know that my grandparents use SS as well as their retirement to help them live, pay for home, and still raise a beautiful family...I guess your family must be different from mind..We do believe in helping each other without the fear of what "I" would be losing...I feel I always receive more when I help others...just works out that way.


I assume that you don't have kids ???

Click to expand...

I have 3 kids. They are young adults. I've helped them, hopefully they will help me should I ever need it. I believe they will. The math for my kids generation doesn't work though, they will pay social security but never collect it.

My family IS different from yours. If there is a problem in mine, I will take the responsibility to do what I can to help, I will not insist the government take from you to provide for my family.

I do not place the responsibility of taking care of my parents or me on anyone else.
Certainly it is good to help people, but to hep them while forcing another to pay for it, is legal theft. Theft whether made "legal" or not, remains theft and morally wrong.

How you believe that government acting as the distribution mechanism for providing that "help" is beyond me. You seem focused on the perceived good, all the while ignoring the method of achieving it will be administered through involuntary confiscation and a government that has proven time and again it knows no fiscal restraint. In short they fuck up nearly everything they touch.

Your emotions, wanting to help people are valid, the WRONGFUL method is what you blithely ignore. If you want to help people, do it, just don't take something away from somebody to do it. You can only give what is rightfully yours, or you advocate theft. There is no other alternative.

londonfog said:

WOW....should I fear the library too ????

Click to expand...

yes but less than most...my point is the everexpanding total percentage of people working in one way or another for a government agency will destroy and enslave america. not everyone can be in the army or be a postal worker or librarian. who will pay their salery? we need the majority to be healthy hard working people producing things or else our nation is doomed....who do you think built all the power lines roads factories bridges dams cars boats planes that gave us the standard of living we have enjoyed? it wasn't cencus workers or heathcare insurance experts...it was hardworking americans who made this country great

you all pay unemployment insurance don't you? you ever plan on being unemployed?

Rob Roy said:

I have 3 kids. They are young adults. I've helped them, hopefully they will help me should I ever need it. I believe they will. The math for my kids generation doesn't work though, they will pay social security but never collect it.

My family IS different from yours. If there is a problem in mine, I will take the responsibility to do what I can to help, I will not insist the government take from you to provide for my family.

I do not place the responsibility of taking care of my parents or me on anyone else.
Certainly it is good to help people, but to hep them while forcing another to pay for it, is legal theft. Theft whether made "legal" or not, remains theft and morally wrong.

How you believe that government acting as the distribution mechanism for providing that "help" is beyond me. You seem focused on the perceived good, all the while ignoring the method of achieving it will be administered through involuntary confiscation and a government that has proven time and again it knows no fiscal restraint. In short they fuck up nearly everything they touch.

Your emotions, wanting to help people are valid, the WRONGFUL method is what you blithely ignore. If you want to help people, do it, just don't take something away from somebody to do it. You can only give what is rightfully yours, or you advocate theft. There is no other alternative.

Click to expand...

Yeah they may never collect on SS especially when we have people like yourself that don't want to pay in. I pay taxes to make sure my government works for me and for the most part it does..Sure we have laws I do not like, but none that are stopping me from achieving in life... I guess you and your kids never went to a public school, went to a library, used the post office,etc..all these things your government gives you...do you really think that you alone pay for all this ....No we all do ...to help one another and make this world a living and working society...I assume that you at least still pay some form of taxes...question did you complain about money being spent on wars ?????

I love how self centered everyone on the right is. I will gladly help out your child if needed and I am able, and I do. You wouldnt do the same? for a child suffering? again your self centered! get over yourself.

I love now that this has passed, everyone on the left is now sleeping (according to the right). zzzzzzzzzzzzz..... oh hit that snooze button, imigration is next. (SARCASM)............ Ive been awake for years, your just waking up righty?

I love how the minority swears they talk for the majority. and keep telling us that. over and over and over, it wont change if you keep saying it.

I love how now people (on the right) have the audacity to call us lazy because we cant afford health insurance, or cant find a job. ever talk to a recent graduate of college? wow, theres alot of jobs for those folks huh? most dont get into the industry they went to school for because the jobs arent there. does that make them lazy? (your lucky to have a job right now jackass). ever talk to the millions of people applying to the same position. are they lazy, or just outnumbered.

funny how people that arent in the unemployed position think its so easy to get a job right now. recently a large hotel opened up in California, 400 positions were available. wanna try and guess how many people applied? the hotel had alot of work to do to go through all the apps. 400 jobs........6,000 resumes and applications. think theres a jobs problem? think they are lazy because they cant find a job? think theres a shit ton of competition out there right now?

I love how their lies didnt work so now its time to attack our character? "lazy potheads" "wanting handouts" My good paying job would still be there if you righties didnt de-regulate everything and make it so easy for the large corporations to crap on us, the American people. Government is responsible for all the lost jobs, so in turn they are responsible for the fallout. Whoa, theres a word that the right doesnt like........ responsibility for your actions. If you screw it up, its your responsibility to correct it right?

But you dont want it corrected, even if it means loss of life, or home, or family. You want America to fail. and will do anything and say anything to help make it fail. you guys are the traitors to your country! even if it were a righty in office I would still want America to succeed, i hated Bush, but it didnt make me want America to fail......even though it did under Bush.

londonfog said:

Yeah they may never collect on SS especially when we have people like yourself that don't want to pay in. I pay taxes to make sure my government works for me and for the most part it does..Sure we have laws I do not like, but none that are stopping me from achieving in life... I guess you and your kids never went to a public school, went to a library, used the post office,etc..all these things your government gives you...do you really think that you alone pay for all this ....No we all do ...to help one another and make this world a living and working society...I assume that you at least still pay some form of taxes...question did you complain about money being spent on wars ?????

Click to expand...

Wars are very hard to justify. I think initiating aggression is wrong. I do not support killing innocent people or forcing others to fund it.

That's why I don't believe taking from one person against their will is justifiable, whether it be to fund wars, schools or "free" health care.

My belief is consistent and yours is inconsistent. You seem to fall into the trap of "but it's for your own good" being a sufficient justification. I don't.

You say the government "works for you" ?
I disagree, you work for the government.

How do you feel about "services" like jails that house people that grow pot? You fund that y'know. Some people think those laws exist "for your own good".

All we owe another is the right to make their own choices about their life, liberty and property regardless of what we think is best for them. Intervening in others lives with your "good idea" is still intervention.

A truly good idea does not need to be forced upon people, if it's a good idea people will decide for themselves. Using government to enforce arbitrary morality is a contradiction. If we leave others alone, we should be left alone if that's what we want...end of story.

redivider said:

"...For instance, as soon as the measure passes, parents will be able to carry their children up to the age of 26 on their insurance plans. Children with conditions will no longer be denied care and putting a limit on lifetime benefits will be banned. And seniors who face unexpected drug price hikes because of a glitch in the Part D program will receive subsidies to help cover those costs..."

Next Front: Selling what Congress did - Jeanne Cummings, writer for POLITICO

that becomes effective immediately.

the rest, well, do your own damn research. expecting people to spoon-feed you information is lazy and immature.

Click to expand...

Pre-existing conditions will fucking cost you a arm and a leg and then get fined for not being able to afford the new shitty insurance.

Great fucking idea ....

Rob Roy said:

I have 3 kids. They are young adults. I've helped them, hopefully they will help me should I ever need it. I believe they will. The math for my kids generation doesn't work though, they will pay social security but never collect it.

My family IS different from yours. If there is a problem in mine, I will take the responsibility to do what I can to help, I will not insist the government take from you to provide for my family.

I do not place the responsibility of taking care of my parents or me on anyone else.
Certainly it is good to help people, but to hep them while forcing another to pay for it, is legal theft. Theft whether made "legal" or not, remains theft and morally wrong.

How you believe that government acting as the distribution mechanism for providing that "help" is beyond me. You seem focused on the perceived good, all the while ignoring the method of achieving it will be administered through involuntary confiscation and a government that has proven time and again it knows no fiscal restraint. In short they fuck up nearly everything they touch.

Your emotions, wanting to help people are valid, the WRONGFUL method is what you blithely ignore. If you want to help people, do it, just don't take something away from somebody to do it. You can only give what is rightfully yours, or you advocate theft. There is no other alternative.

Click to expand...

The word is society:
Society or human society is the set of relations among people, including their social status and roles. By extension, society denotes the people of a region or country, sometimes even the world, taken as a whole.[1] Used in the sense of an association, a society is a body of individuals outlined by the bounds of functional interdependence, possibly comprising characteristics such as national or cultural identity, social solidarity, language or hierarchical organization. Human societies are characterized by patterns of relationships between individuals sharing a distinctive culture and institutions. Like other communities or groups, a society allows its members to achieve needs or wishes they could not fulfill alone.
This is the key. A society allows members to achieve needs or wishes they could not achieve alone. I hate to be repetitive, but that says it all. we live in a society and we should attempt to help those that need help. The way to do this is by pooling our resources, (Money acquired by taxes) and distributing it to those in need. I realize that those that have the most, want to do the least. Seems Ironic that the same society that allowed them to be such great successes, is lamented as a burden to their wealth. Greed is a nasty trait of the wealthy class.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/5-Overblown-Fears-About-usnews-1662044017.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=1&asset=&ccode=


Pop Quiz !
1) Who originally proposed a tax funded health care plan? I'll give you a hint... he was the republican candidate in the 2008 presidential elections...