North Korea-What should be done?

Microdizzey

Microdizzey

Well-Known Member
Woomeister said:
Two more missiles fired off the S.Korean coast!!!
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Just to confirm your post. :blsmoke:

North Korea Launches Short-Range Missiles
By VOA News
02 July 2009



President Barack Obama says the United States is trying to "keep a door open" for North Korea to return to six-party nuclear disarmament talks.
The president's comments came in an interview with the Associated Press on Thursday, the same day North Korea test-fired four short-range missiles.
A spokesman for South Korea's defense ministry saystwo ground-to-ship missiles were fired within a 40-minute span Thursday near the eastern coastal city of Wonsan. The ministry said the missiles landed about 100 kilometers away in the Sea of Japan.
South Korean officials said two more missiles were fired a few hours later from the east coast.
The United States has urged North Korea to stop its provocative actions and return to the nuclear disarmament talks.
In recent months, Pyongyang also has tested a nuclear weapon and a ballistic missile.
President Barack Obama told the Associated Press there could be more sanctions in store for North Korea for its May nuclear test.
State Department spokesman Ian Kelly said the international community "has spoken loudly" and that North Korea knows it has to halt the testing.
Japanese Prime Minister Taro Aso responded to North Korea's missile tests Thursdayby saying his government has repeatedly warned Pyongyang that such acts are not in North Korea's national interest.
The development comes as tensions increase on the Korean peninsula over North Korea's May 25 nuclear test and a series of missile launches. The United Nations Security Council imposed a harsh new set of financial sanctions against the regime last month to prevent it from obtaining material and equipment needed for nuclear and arms programs.
U.S. envoy Philip Goldberg met with Chinese officials in Beijing Thursday to discuss rigorous implementation of sanctions. The U.S. State Department says Goldberg also will meet with Malaysian officials in Kuala Lumpur before returning to Washington July 6.
Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Wu Dawei is leaving Beijing Thursday to hold talks with nuclear negotiators in Russia, Japan, South Korea and the United States in an effort to restart the six-nation talks.
The last round of talks in December in Beijing ended with an impasse over how North Korea's disarmament would be verified.
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http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-07-02-voa64.cfm



Apparently 4 test missiles were launched today.
 
The Warlord

The Warlord

Well-Known Member
Wow....... this thread is like that grassy knoll in Dallas all over again..............put your tin foil hats on folks!
 
Woomeister

Woomeister

Well-Known Member
The media over here is saying that KJI is preparing his power base for his son to take over...his son is very friendly with Ahmadinejad. Tea and cake anyone?
 
Woomeister

Woomeister

Well-Known Member
It was announced today that NK has finally developed a second way of enriching Uranium and is going ahead with the production of more atomic bombs, this is a direct 'middle finger up' to the increased sanctions...
 
SDSativa

SDSativa

Active Member
It's the fact that as soon as they develop the technology, they will be selling it to anyone who wants one. Can you imagine Bin Laden in control of a nuke? You saw what a few planes did, imagine a huge ass bomb. We need to show them that we are serious, destroy their enriching facilities, and take that bastard out of power. Do we learn anything from history? It's not like they are trying to develop it for energy. Look at who they associate with. Our enemies. Pacifism will eventually destroy this country.
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Who is our enemies? The only ones that truly are out there are the terrorists and they are faceless and few. N Korea should not be our problem. The whole paranoid view that we have here in america that we have so many enemies needs to stop.

N. Korea may want to take over S. korea, but that makes them enemies, not us. Same with Israel and Iran, you really think that Israel needs us? They would wipe out Iran very fast if we would let them.

Let China and Russia work with N Korea and get them under control. This is not our fight.

And everyone in our country is falling into the trap Kim has set up. Why do you think he has press conferences for us to know his every move? He knows it sends us into a panic and we feel that we need to do something to stop it giving him all the power in the conversation. Our only choice is to go to war, which would be a horrible war, or to do nothing (because we are already doing everything we really can). So either way he looks like the one who wins this.

Ignoring him is the only way to force him to make a move. Then game on.
 
Bud Frosty

Bud Frosty

Well-Known Member
This should have been finished 55 years ago.
It's just another shining example of what happens when diplomacy and warfare combine. Diplomacy is a good thing, it can save countless lives (or lose them) but, when it fails, you need to do one of two things...
a.) Back off and let it go
b.) Give your military a clear objective and let them go achieve it

The Korean war was very similar to Vietnam in the respect that there was so much political meddling in what should have been an entirely military action at that point. I don't necessarily agree that we should have been there in the first place but, we were. So... here we are, 55 YEARS LATER, with a mean little pot bellied pig of our own creation, that SOMEONE is going to have to deal with at some point.
 
Bud Frosty

Bud Frosty

Well-Known Member
hanimmal said:
Who is our enemies? The only ones that truly are out there are the terrorists and they are faceless and few. N Korea should not be our problem. The whole paranoid view that we have here in america that we have so many enemies needs to stop.

N. Korea may want to take over S. korea, but that makes them enemies, not us. Same with Israel and Iran, you really think that Israel needs us? They would wipe out Iran very fast if we would let them.

Let China and Russia work with N Korea and get them under control. This is not our fight.

And everyone in our country is falling into the trap Kim has set up. Why do you think he has press conferences for us to know his every move? He knows it sends us into a panic and we feel that we need to do something to stop it giving him all the power in the conversation. Our only choice is to go to war, which would be a horrible war, or to do nothing (because we are already doing everything we really can). So either way he looks like the one who wins this.

Ignoring him is the only way to force him to make a move. Then game on.
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Most 1930's Americans had the same view of Nazi Germany.
They said, "Let Europe and Russia deal with them."
Besides, Germany was such a small country that was disarmed just 20 years before.
 
CrackerJax

CrackerJax

New Member
Quebec is the kingpin in that group too...take them down and the rest will fall into line....40 states included. (offer not available in Hawaii, Alaska and Puerto Rico)
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Most 1930's Americans had the same view of Nazi Germany.
They said, "Let Europe and Russia deal with them."
Besides, Germany was such a small country that was disarmed just 20 years before.
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This may sound bad, but by allowing Europe to fight its own war against Germany and Italy, we came out smelling like roses. We were able to play the role of saviors and gained a lot of good press over there. Not to mention the economic benefits.

With Germany and the rest of Europe (not to mention Japan) in ruins and broke from fighting the wars we were able to dominate economically for the next few decades while they rebuilt. We may have had a much different position now if we had jumped in with both feet right away.

Instead now we have been blowing trillions for the last four decades fighting war after war, and investing less and less in our country.


Russia
China
N. Korea
Iran
Syria
Venezuela
Bolivia
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I'm sorry but I just don't see it. Russia and China are large trading partners for us, and most of the rest are countries that we have put so many restrictions on that they are pissed at us since the cold war. Syria does not want to be a part of the rest of the world, so screw them, and leave them be.

If countries want to stay poor, let them. It is none of our business. If their people want to overthrow the government let them do it. Or let the rest of the world decide it is time to take action.

These people are not our enemies. If anything we have decided that we need to 'convert' them into the religion that is the united states.
 
Woomeister

Woomeister

Well-Known Member
i believe any country who is willing to use Nukes on any other country is an enemy of the world and it is the responsibilty of those that are able to to address this...Hanimal I didnt think you were into nimbyism but what the hell as long as the fallout doesnt reach your shores its ok? China and Russia have no desire to sort anyone out, they cant even sort their own issues out without media blackouts violence and repression, so how are they going to sort anyone else out. N Korea is a starving nation and its people think that its the wests fault, if China or Russia wanted to they could change public perspective to allow the natural progression of revolution to ensue. However this hasnt been the case, why, because its not in their interest for NK to be anything other than a threat. The more threats there are in the world to western democracy the more likely the world order will change, or at least thats what repressed communist ideology believes. History shows that when distractions are rife power struggles ensue.
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
i believe any country who is willing to use Nukes on any other country is an enemy of the world and it is the responsibilty of those that are able to to address this...
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To this day the only ones to have used this against another country is us here in the good ole US of A. Want to guess who has 'tested' the most?

Hanimal I didnt think you were into nimbyism but what the hell as long as the fallout doesnt reach your shores its ok?
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The difference between 'not in my backyard' and fighting all these wars that don't have anything to do with us, is the same thing that so many people are opposed to in this country. Our government needs to try to stay out of others business.

China and Russia have no desire to sort anyone out, they cant even sort their own issues out without media blackouts violence and repression, so how are they going to sort anyone else out. N Korea is a starving nation and its people think that its the wests fault, if China or Russia wanted to they could change public perspective to allow the natural progression of revolution to ensue.
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The reason they are starving is because we have a trade embargo with them and China cannot trade their scarce food to them because they need it. So it is directly our fault. If we didn't decide that they were evil and did trade economically with them it would turn the country around.

See here is the thing, if our way is the best (which I think that it is) then people that see how well it works would love to be more like our capital market system. Look at how Russia dropped the communism, who was it that they took after? Same with China, they are trying to hold onto the communist politics, but they have opened up the economy to the free market, and they are doing very well.

Why do people have such a hard time understanding, the reason to fight with someone is not to make them change to be more like you, that is easier done with economic support, and education. What you are saying they are afraid to do is exactly what they have done. China may not have a 'free political society' like we do, but they have already opened up and the revolution has been underway for a few years now.

However this hasnt been the case, why, because its not in their interest for NK to be anything other than a threat. The more threats there are in the world to western democracy the more likely the world order will change, or at least thats what repressed communist ideology believes. History shows that when distractions are rife power struggles ensue.
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NK doing this looks very bad on China, and the Chinese know this. Last time they tossed a few missiles in the air China stepped up and told them to simmer down. They have not, so this makes China look like they are weak. So the trading partners of NK, China and Russia are the only ones that can handle this without us having to fight another war.

I don't understand why everyone is so afraid of communism. It is actually funny.
 
Woomeister

Woomeister

Well-Known Member
I missed out the word 'aggressive' when talking of using nukes. I am not afraid of communism and Im not American. I dont think you have been to china or S.Korea have you. The Chinese have food a plenty but choose not to distribute it equally, reminiscent of pre French revolutionary period and pre Russian revolutionary period. The difference in China is that it is truly vast and no revolution will take place that affects Beijing one iota. I think it is amusing that people actually give credence to the belief that the Chinese give a damn what westerners think...they dont, it is all smoke and shadows with them.


While that may be true -- and few outsiders really know what's up in Pyongyang -- there is another way to understand the North's willingness to antagonize much of the world: Chinese buyers of North Korean minerals don't seem to mind.
Increasingly, revenue from these buyers is going directly to the North Korean military, which has taken control of exports of coal, metals and other key economic sectors, according to the Seoul-based Institute for Far Eastern Studies.
By funneling hard currency to the military, Chinese enterprises seem to be insulating the confrontational core of Kim's government from the international consequences of its behavior. "To the extent that these transactions are increasingly controlled by government entities, particularly the military, North Korea's response to sanctions and diplomatic concerns are almost surely diminished," said Marcus Noland, a North Korea expert at the Washington-based Peterson Institute for International Economics.
Japan, South Korea and the United States, the most outspoken champions of using sanctions to change North Korean behavior, are painfully aware of China's growing trade. "If China continues business as usual with the North Koreans, they won't feel any pain," said a senior official in Japan's Foreign Ministry.
U.S. leverage with China is complicated by its own money problems. While China is North Korea's main patron, it is also the U.S. government's largest creditor, holding as much as $800 billion in U.S. Treasury bonds...
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
But none of that convinces me that America needs to be the one that steps up and does something about them.

They may not care what we think here in the west, but they should at least have some understanding of the consequences of North Korea's action, and none of them are good. I have not been to China or S. Korea, I take it how you say that like it makes anyone that has not been there unable to read about it unable to understand, that you have?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/jun/23/china-food-shortage

You don't increase your budget in researching how to cultivate food by 20% if you feel like it is safe.

"If China continues business as usual with the North Koreans, they won't feel any pain," said a senior official in Japan's Foreign Ministry.
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This is what I am saying. I understand that China doesn't really care if N. Korea launches a few missiles. I am saying that they are the only ones that can do anything about it. And if the rest of the world (Who China does heavily rely on with their trade) puts the pressure on China, they will have to step up. They got brushed aside this time, but eventually the pressure will be on China to do something.

And I do understand that America and China are very involved with eachother financially and we cannot force them to do anything, just like they cannot force anything on us. But we are still on the highground financially with China. And it shouldn't be a us and them, once France, Germany, Uk, Japan and everyone else gets on board and wants to put N. Korea down, they can force the hand of China by stopping the trade with them until they put pressure on N. Korea.

We here in America don't need to pick a fight because nobody else is.
 
Woomeister

Woomeister

Well-Known Member
Sorry hanimal, i have never stated that a pre-emptive strike from the Us is what should be done, my original post was, 'what should be done'? So your answer is put pressure on China to put pressure on KJI?
 
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