no more leaders

burgertime2010 said:

leadership is unavoidable, it is a characteristic in any social animal. The alphas will emerge and direct the weak and less intelligent in some way. You can see that tendency all over this site. The modern leaders are hidden in society.

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It is important to distinguish between leaders that have a voluntary following and those that acquire their "following" using coercive means. The means is part of the package, to ignore this while admiring a given result is to fail to examine the whole.

minnesmoker said:

Eventually, a leader WILL rise up... And, just like most other leaders, it'll be simply to protect their own interests.

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You bring up a good point, there are always those who want to direct others actions with or without consent of the directed.

It is an acceptable and natural thing to protect your own interests. It is an unacceptable thing to do this while denying or abridging the interests of others. Reject any form of "leadership" that promises you a share of the booty they steal from others and you will begin to change that which you can and perhaps inspire others to adopt a different viewpoint.

Rob Roy said:

It is important to distinguish between leaders that have a voluntary following and those that acquire their "following" using coercive means. The means is part of the package, to ignore this while admiring a given result is to fail to examine the whole.

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Rob Roy said:

You bring up a good point, there are always those who want to direct others actions with or without consent of the directed.

It is an acceptable and natural thing to protect your own interests. It is an unacceptable thing to do this while denying or abridging the interests of others.

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Does the word Nation-State show up in the lexicon of your Utopia?

heckler73 said:

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Does the word Nation-State show up in the lexicon of your Utopia?

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Oh, I see, by ridiculing, you get to avoid addressing the point I raised. How does a Nation-State that uses force differ from a gang leader that uses force?

Is it Utopian to point out that force doesn't change by dressing it up and making it "official", it still remains just an act of aggression of one group of people over others doesn't it?



Note - I see you chose McDonald's and not Wendy's, a wise choice due to the possibility of unwanted fecal matter.

Rob Roy said:

Oh, I see, by ridiculing, you get to avoid addressing the point I raised. How does a Nation-State that uses force differ from a gang leader that uses force?

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How does presenting three pictures of leaders amount to ridicule?
A Nation-State is more organized than a "gang leader".

Is it Utopian to point out that force doesn't change by dressing it up and making it "official", it still remains just an act of aggression of one group of people over others doesn't it?

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Utopian? No...quite dystopian, actually. My original query to you was under the premise you had no definition of Nation-State in your vision.
I was hoping you could elaborate on what that means in this forceless world you wish to see.

Note - I see you chose McDonald's and not Wendy's, a wise choice due to the possibility of unwanted fecal matter.

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[/quote]

I'm lovin' it.
$4.67 for a bag of industrial-strength calories...although, the franchisee doesn't make much from that purchase. That's right, stickin' it to the man by being an impecunious prick.
Take that, Ronald!

beenthere said:

If you consider Che Guevara and Malcolm X as great, Obama is the leader for you, he's both of your idols all wrapped up in one.

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your missing my point. when the time for an actual revolution comes, and it will come who will be the one or ones to stand up when everyone else is to damn petrified to stand with them. hence forth are there anymore capable leaders to fight the good fight for the little people; a hero or legend in the making so to speak. oh and fyi, Che was close to starting WW3, Malcolm X wanted to unify the country against the bigots and bureaucrats up until the nation of islam killed him. obama is nothing more than a fallguy, a poster boy for americans to hate because of a faulty healthcare plan nobody agrees with and a sure enough reason to turn back the clock when blacks were considered everything "wrong" in this country as well as the "worst" minorities.

burgertime2010 said:

leadership is unavoidable, it is a characteristic in any social animal. The alphas will emerge and direct the weak and less intelligent in some way. You can see that tendency all over this site. The modern leaders are hidden in society.

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Wow.


What you have just described is not leadership but authoritarianism.

Rob Roy said:

It is important to distinguish between leaders that have a voluntary following and those that acquire their "following" using coercive means. The means is part of the package, to ignore this while admiring a given result is to fail to examine the whole.

Click to expand...

Those who aquire their following through coercive means are not leaders.