newbies increase your yields with these tips

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whitnasty1

Member
While 70-80 F may be optimal.I have read many recent studues showing that growth is not altered until you reach 90F constantly with no CO2. Plants actually more efficiently absorb light around 85 F. So if yoirr grow area happens to be in the mid 80s you will be okay with good air circulation. This number can be increased with co2 enrichment over 1000ppm.Potency made decline with temps over 90F however.
 
applepoop1984

applepoop1984

Well-Known Member
il admit flushing is debateble. however i would like to see some scientific evidence suggesting it stress the roots etc. as long as your leaves arent all yellow they still have energy in them the plants can use. hardly a deficiency. 2 days of darkness before harvest allows the plant to use up the stored energy in the form of carbohydrates from the leaves, when the light is on the roots arent growing as nearly as much as during the dark. this is also true for the buds. 2 days before darkness allows the buds to grow more than if you had the lights on at all during those 2 days. the onyl problems occur if your leave as have no energy. also 2 days of darkness kicks flowering hormones into overdrive
sourced from ed rosenthals latest revision cannabis grow guide used in oaksterdam university.

clear trichomes are not desireable. nor are amber. clear has precursor cannabinoids and cloudy has fully realized thc and amber has degraded thc to cbn. stop trolling lol.

foliar feeding is effective and is beneficial to organics especially. in organics microbes need to break down the soil into readily available nutes and molasses is a chelated form of iron and potassium and is already readily available. the leaves are 90% more efficient at absorbing nutrients than the roots this is a fact.

some info on the effects rh temp and light have on the stomata:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC426351/pdf/plntphys00548-0041.pdf

instead of telling me im wrong post something that proves im wrong or go lay an egg
 
GrowinDad

GrowinDad

Well-Known Member
I disagree about not needing to PH with organics. And some say no need to in any soil. What I think they are doing is a tragic mistake of assuming that their tap water is the same as everyone else's!

I have a grow going on right now about six weeks into flower and it has gone without a hitch :-). I have really only made two significant changes from my last grow where I did run into issues. One is that I PH everything my girls drink. The other is using dyna-gro vs fox farms.
 
brotherjericho

brotherjericho

Well-Known Member
Only issues I have with the OP:

applepoop1984 said:
8. before flowering give your plants 2 days of absolute darkness. this kicks the flowering hormones into overdrive. likewise before harvest give it 2 days of darkness as well to help leach nutrients out of your bud.
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This seems dubious, you had me until this.

9.phing your water isnt necessary with organics put 1-2 tbsp of dolomite lime or similar buffer in your soil as a top dressing would greatly benefit your plants
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How do you know what everyone has for water? Bold, but not wise.

10. aerate your water with an airpump before watering. this will keep it oxygenated and help the plants recover from the watering quicker. likwise adding one capful of hydrogen peroxide to 1 gallon of water will do the same. do both.
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H2O2 might kill some beneficial soil microbes, so it should not be used unless you have some other issue you want to address. Bad info.
 
applepoop1984

applepoop1984

Well-Known Member
brotherjericho said:
Only issues I have with the OP:



This seems dubious, you had me until this.



How do you know what everyone has for water? Bold, but not wise.



H2O2 might kill some beneficial soil microbes, so it should not be used unless you have some other issue you want to address. Bad info.
Click to expand...

2 days of darkness allows starches to be removed from the plant while increasing resin production. resin is produced at night, bud growth happens at night, light is used ti store energy in the leaves, if you have green on your leaves theyre good to go. less stored energy more bud growth

i do not know but a buffer will keep it in an acceptable range. this is a work in progress i am open to suggestions i simply want to help newbies increase there prowess and buds. when u ad a buffer to soil ( soil already acts as a buffer btw) it keeps the ph from fluctuating. i do ph my wtaer however, 6.2 usually, and when i measure the run off it is almost always broguht up to 6.4-6.5 range because soil is a buffer.

h202 only kills 1% of beneficials while killing almost all bad bacteria because they lack enzyme catalase + bad bacteria cannto thrive in an oxygen rich environment . a decent trade off imo
 
brotherjericho

brotherjericho

Well-Known Member
applepoop1984 said:
2 days of darkness allows starches to be removed from the plant while increasing resin production. resin is produced at night, bud growth happens at night, light is used ti store energy in the leaves, if you have green on your leaves theyre good to go. less stored energy more bud growth
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Evidence?

i do not know but a buffer will keep it in an acceptable range. this is a work in progress i am open to suggestions i simply want to help newbies increase there prowess and buds. when u ad a buffer to soil ( soil already acts as a buffer btw) it keeps the ph from fluctuating. i do ph my wtaer however, 6.2 usually, and when i measure the run off it is almost always broguht up to 6.4-6.5 range because soil is a buffer.
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Lime will increase pH, but what if your water is hard, and the pH is 8? Lime won't do shit to when cannabis in soil wants 6.5- 7.0 pH.

h202 only kills 1% of beneficials while killing almost all bad bacteria because they lack enzyme catalase + bad bacteria cannto thrive in an oxygen rich environment . a decent trade off imo
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http://joemacho.hubpages.com/hub/Hydrogen-Peroxide-for-Plants

"My one word of caution is to avoid using it in the soil too often. As hydrogen peroxide will easily rid your soil of harmful pests, it can also take it's toll on beneficial soil organisms. So, use wisely and only treat when an infection or rot has been confirmed."
 
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whitnasty1

Member
it should be standard practice to pH anything you give to your girls, why take a risk for something so simple? Dolomite lime does have the ability to raise you pH over 7.0
 
kinetic

kinetic

Well-Known Member

  • What I think they are doing is a tragic mistake of assuming that their tap water is the same as everyone else's!​




rep worthy
 
Trousers

Trousers

Well-Known Member
applepoop1984 said:
il admit flushing is debateble. however i would like to see some scientific evidence suggesting it stress the roots etc.
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If you run gallons of water through your pots, you are washing away nutes and/or microbes.
How is that good for a plant?

applepoop1984 said:
as long as your leaves arent all yellow they still have energy in them the plants can use. hardly a deficiency. 2 days of darkness before harvest allows the plant to use up the stored energy in the form of carbohydrates from the leaves, when the light is on the roots arent growing as nearly as much as during the dark. this is also true for the buds. 2 days before darkness allows the buds to grow more than if you had the lights on at all during those 2 days. the onyl problems occur if your leave as have no energy. also 2 days of darkness kicks flowering hormones into overdrive
sourced from ed rosenthals latest revision cannabis grow guide used in oaksterdam university.
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I'm not going to argue, but there are a lot of books that have a lot of misleading things in them. Ed Rosenthal is no different.

applepoop1984 said:
some info on the effects rh temp and light have on the stomata:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC426351/pdf/plntphys00548-0041.pdf

instead of telling me im wrong post something that proves im wrong or go lay an egg
Click to expand...
Instead of posting a study done on pine trees and aspens show me one on cannabis.
I am saying that there are much more important things for new growers to worry about than controlling humidity.
I do nothing to raise humidity and do great. When it did get humid, around 50%, I ended up getting mold on one of my biggest buds.
 
applepoop1984

applepoop1984

Well-Known Member
Trousers said:
If you run gallons of water through your pots, you are washing away nutes and/or microbes.
How is that good for a plant?



I'm not going to argue, but there are a lot of books that have a lot of misleading things in them. Ed Rosenthal is no different.



Instead of posting a study done on pine trees and aspens show me one on cannabis.
I am saying that there are much more important things for new growers to worry about than controlling humidity.
I do nothing to raise humidity and do great. When it did get humid, around 50%, I ended up getting mold on one of my biggest buds.
Click to expand...

i used pine trees because it is a dioecious plant. very few plants are dieoecious. it is the norm in mammals. this is why i chose that study. marijuana is a dieoecious plant meaning it has a male and a female gender. there are few if any scientific studies on it as its illegal. your going to have to make do with studies of similar plants.

flushing allows the plant to use up its stored energy. rarely would i let a plant completely yellow before harvest. an above poster confirmed the taste of ferts in his bud one time. we are trying to eliminate this. he claimed he also had a carrot taste to his which isnt really carrot taste but fertilizer that people who buy inorganicly grown vegetables acquire. if you are mostly green 2 weeks from harvest you can flush. if you have a nutrient deficiency it is not need. this is simple shit people
 
F

Fresh 2 De@th

Well-Known Member
simisimis said:
well for niewbies ion generators and extra co2 feeding might be a bit.. u know..

I some points are good, some are a bit not. some still could have more info. anyway, you cannot expect to put all the knowledge in one post. people read tons of books before they get to understand everything.

here's what I disagree with or have something to add.

2. I grow with constant 36% RH from seed. Had no problems whatsoever. tried raising it, did not notice any difference.

4. flushing is BAD. Cannot emphasize it enough. It can be used only as a last resort, i.e. serious overfeeding. It highly stresses the plant that results in reduced yield.

5. during the plants life it needs full spectrum of light. warm white 2700K-3000K and 6000K-6500K are the most beneficial colors. best use 3:1 ratio with 3 being 6500K in veg and 3 being 2700K in flower. You could go with 3K from start to finish with some additional 6500K and would not notice a big difference in yield.

7. I've read some growers did not see benefits from molasses, but if you have them, it does not hurt for you to use it.

8. 2 days of absolute darkness is just a hype. it does not make plant flower faster, it causes additional stress to the plant.

10. hydrogen peroxide kills bacteria in soil. if should be used when plant is overwared so provide extra oxygen for the roots because peroxide kills bacterias, make new molecules releasing oxygen. When flushing you plant this could help for it to survive cause it would produce oxygen which flushing/overwatering pushed out of soil, but when watering properly this should not be used. unless you experience some mold or fungi.

12. feeding of 3-1-2 NPK with Ca-Mg supplement for healthy growth and S containing nutes from 4th week of flowering to increase thc production. No high P food in indoor grows as it locks out some micro elements and deficiency of P is very rare in indoor grows.

13. Do not stop feeding last two weeks as it does not remove anything from buds and it does not make them any better, proper drying and curing does. The only thing it does it extremely stresses the plant and result in yield. Drying the buds till their stems are snapping and then curring them in constant 62% RH releases chlorophyll and this is where the taste and potency are maximized not flushing or feeding.

22. Foliage feeding not always helps a plant. On flowering stages it causes buds to mold/rot. In veg under stronger lighting like hps drops can form magnifying lenses and burn the leaves. I do not spray plants anymore as it only worsen the things for me.

23. reflecting the light from the bottom is not worth the effort IMO. bottom of the leaves contain 1/3rd of chlorophyll and therefore photosynthesize less, also light distance increases and with light source as cfl because of the poor penetration you would hardly benefit at all. cfls should be 1-3" from plant to benefit best.

great work man, but quite a lot misleading information.

for newbies I would advise to read Uncle Bens tweaks and pointers with all of the commnets. so many things are answered in there. Also Mel Franks book - Marijuana Grower's Insider's Guide. 1993, or another Mel Franks book Marijuana Grower's Guide Deluxe: Revised Color Edition 1997 by red eye press. And only then start reading forums so you would get your knowledge from scientifically proven facts rather from those bs hypes floating in these forums/snake oil sellers/grow bibles writers.
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i have to agree with almost all that you said, all except for the humidity part. it's been proven and well known that rh between 50-60% is the optimal range for veg and 40-50% during bloom. if one is getting mold from those numbers, it has nothing to do with rh, if anything it would be from poor ventilation/air circulation that causes mold indoors.
 
simisimis

simisimis

Well-Known Member
Fresh 2 De@th said:
i have to agree with almost all that you said, all except for the humidity part. it's been proven and well known that rh between 50-60% is the optimal range for veg and 40-50% during bloom. if one is getting mold from those numbers, it has nothing to do with rh, if anything it would be from poor ventilation/air circulation that causes mold indoors.
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I do not argue that on 50% plant would benefit more than in 20-40%, I did not do enough studies on this subject. I just wonder if people who add moist to RH artificially have any benefit or only those who has it naturally. Cause RH is influenced by some factors like temp, saturation humidity, pressure. Cause I've seen quite some growers who has outstanding results that you start doubting whether it's worth hanging wet towels around your room(like newbies do, incl me..) in order to get additional gram of mj.. As Trousers said alr that noobs should invest their time in more important things.

OP, if you'd accept other opinions, who knows maybe we would come up with some the one and only truth, debating is what makes us learn something, but when you call me troll for giving you newer studies and proves that THC peak potency is when the capitate-stalked resin glands are SWOLLEN, not like a popular belief that people should wait for 10-20% of amber trichs.. well you know, it kind of makes you.. ignorant?

I tried flushing once, the only thing I had from it was plant had overwatering stress for 7 days. And I flushed with half the amount as instructed on this forum. And you do that so you would not feel carrot taste? Your friend had it? You read that somebody else had it? as an example you can google how many people actually have seen mermaids. A lot. Does that make it true? When saying that they had carrot taste, make sure you name how they were drying/curring their buds. Did they keep humidity meter in the jar. On my first harvest I did as described on forum, dry until it snaps, put them in the jar, burp every day. One month I was having carrot/old grass smell and taste. And I quit feeding this plant and flushed it 10 before the harvest. But I was curring it at 50% RH max. But once I got humidipack which kept my buds at constant 62%. One week and a plant which I fed to the last day had amazing smell and taste and potency.

This thread is named for newbies but all the technical smart sounding names which they do not have any clue what they mean... numbers and percents... IMO First thing everybody should do is take some real book, like Mel Franks, and read it. yup, all 300 pages.. not that commercial crap like ed rosenthal, and only then introduce them to everything we know.
People start growing in pc case, or having one 25W cfl expecting that to drive them through the grow, or use grandpas chandelier, etc.. not talking about the fans, humidity control etc. Some even add birth control pills in order female plants would not get pollinated by males lol.
Also I did not see anything about the lights in your post. Was that not important enough?

I myself learned a lot from this thread, thank you guys for all the input. Sorry for anxious words, did not mean to offend anyone in any way.
 
Trousers

Trousers

Well-Known Member
applepoop1984 said:
i used pine trees because it is a dioecious plant. very few plants are dieoecious. it is the norm in mammals. this is why i chose that study. marijuana is a dieoecious plant meaning it has a male and a female gender. there are few if any scientific studies on it as its illegal. your going to have to make do with studies of similar plants.
Click to expand...

I am familiar with cannabis being dioecious. Read my signature. It is great you want to compare outdoor trees to indoor annuals, but you are still missing the point.

Raising humidity is tricky. It is not as important as you think. If it were, how am I pulling over a pound, variety dependent of course, in a 3x3 tent with a 600 watt HPS?

If I spent a few hundred dollars on a nice humidifier and got my rh up from 20% to 45%, how much more yield could I expect?

Again, there are much more important things for a noob to worry about.

applepoop1984 said:
flushing allows the plant to use up its stored energy.
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Is this what you have heard?
Buds do not store nutrients, period.
How come I do not need to flush tomatoes, apples, carrots and every other plant I grow outside?
Why don't my tomatoes smell like carrots and my carrots smell like fertilizer?


Flushing is for people that use too many nutes. It is stressful to the plant and will decrease yield.

applepoop1984 said:
rarely would i let a plant completely yellow before harvest. an above poster confirmed the taste of ferts in his bud one time. we are trying to eliminate this.
Click to expand...
Buds do not store fertilizer. Cool story though.

applepoop1984 said:
he claimed he also had a carrot taste to his which isnt really carrot taste but fertilizer that people who buy inorganicly grown vegetables acquire.
Click to expand...

Stop it. You should not be dispensing advice if you believe this stuff.


applepoop1984 said:
if you are mostly green 2 weeks from harvest you can flush. if you have a nutrient deficiency it is not need. this is simple shit people
Click to expand...
Stop spreading bullshit.

If you run gallons of water through your soil, then you are an idiot. Why would you want to wash away nutrients the plant needs to survive? Why would you wash away beneficial microbes?

Are you saying that if I make an organic soil mix that needs no nutes at all that I should flush at the end of the flowering?
That is just insane.

If you want to stress your plants and lower your yield, flush on big fella.
 
chuck estevez

chuck estevez

Well-Known Member
I think the biggest thing with flushing is people don't really know what they are referring to most of the time. Is FLUSHING

A. using plain water when needed the last 2 weeks or so? normal waterings, just no nutes?

B. (leeching) running gallons of water thru your pots trying to remove built up salts?

c. we talking soil or hydro?

d. moving poo from your toilet

see how things can get confusing?
 
kinetic

kinetic

Well-Known Member
I installed a push button on my toilet for flushing and removed the handle. This is the only spot where I could fit this info in relevently
 
applepoop1984

applepoop1984

Well-Known Member
simisimis said:
I do not argue that on 50% plant would benefit more than in 20-40%, I did not do enough studies on this subject. I just wonder if people who add moist to RH artificially have any benefit or only those who has it naturally. Cause RH is influenced by some factors like temp, saturation humidity, pressure. Cause I've seen quite some growers who has outstanding results that you start doubting whether it's worth hanging wet towels around your room(like newbies do, incl me..) in order to get additional gram of mj.. As Trousers said alr that noobs should invest their time in more important things.

OP, if you'd accept other opinions, who knows maybe we would come up with some the one and only truth, debating is what makes us learn something, but when you call me troll for giving you newer studies and proves that THC peak potency is when the capitate-stalked resin glands are SWOLLEN, not like a popular belief that people should wait for 10-20% of amber trichs.. well you know, it kind of makes you.. ignorant?

I tried flushing once, the only thing I had from it was plant had overwatering stress for 7 days. And I flushed with half the amount as instructed on this forum. And you do that so you would not feel carrot taste? Your friend had it? You read that somebody else had it? as an example you can google how many people actually have seen mermaids. A lot. Does that make it true? When saying that they had carrot taste, make sure you name how they were drying/curring their buds. Did they keep humidity meter in the jar. On my first harvest I did as described on forum, dry until it snaps, put them in the jar, burp every day. One month I was having carrot/old grass smell and taste. And I quit feeding this plant and flushed it 10 before the harvest. But I was curring it at 50% RH max. But once I got humidipack which kept my buds at constant 62%. One week and a plant which I fed to the last day had amazing smell and taste and potency.

This thread is named for newbies but all the technical smart sounding names which they do not have any clue what they mean... numbers and percents... IMO First thing everybody should do is take some real book, like Mel Franks, and read it. yup, all 300 pages.. not that commercial crap like ed rosenthal, and only then introduce them to everything we know.
People start growing in pc case, or having one 25W cfl expecting that to drive them through the grow, or use grandpas chandelier, etc.. not talking about the fans, humidity control etc. Some even add birth control pills in order female plants would not get pollinated by males lol.
Also I did not see anything about the lights in your post. Was that not important enough?

I myself learned a lot from this thread, thank you guys for all the input. Sorry for anxious words, did not mean to offend anyone in any way.
Click to expand...
first of all you havent posted any studies stating when thc % peaks. i in fact have posted you a study describing the effect of temp light and humidity on the stomata of dieoecious plants(marijuana) . barometric pressure is irrelevant unless youre in an airplane growing pot.

i just flushed my 3 gallon pot with 5 gallons of water i aerated it with an airstone and added 5 caps of h2o2 and its been 3 days no problems whatsoever. i did however let all the water drain from the pot and the drip tray. suprisingly my buds fattened up the day after i did this.

so youre saying you dont believe in buds having a carrot taste, and then in the same paragraph you say youv experienced it?

this isnt a how to grow guide this is a how to improve guide. little things you can do to get the most

the thread isnt that technical
 
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