Newbie Grower - Organic Grow - Soil Question

Discussion in 'Newbie Central' started by Cali Cajun, Jun 11, 2018.

    Cali Cajun

    Cali Cajun Well-Known Member

    Greetings all,

    I'm a first-time grower about 30 days into my first grow (indoors in small tent - link here). I decided to give growing a try because I'm a medical patient in California, and want to grow healthy medicine with no pesticides or unhealthy additives. I'm completely new to all this and my head is swimming a bit from all the information I'm trying to absorb.

    At any rate, I'm trying to keep things as simple as possible while I'm learning. I found this link to a Super Soil recipe on another site and am planning on trying to make my own for a future grow, but they also recommended a particular type of pre cooked super soil called Kind Soil for new growers not ready to make their own. I purchased 25 pounds of it, which per the manufacturer's instructions I have been layering with a top layer of Coco Loco. Four of my plants are doing well, but one stopped draining and stopped growing. In researching on Roll It Up, I did a search and read up on all the threads related to Kind Soil, including this one which has me wondering if it might be a good idea to try another soil for my final planned transplant into 5 gallon containers.

    I'm wondering if folks who have direct experience on completing successful grows through flowering using Kind Soil have any thoughts/recommendations on how best to use through flowering for a successful grow, and if they are still using Kind Soil or have moved on to another option.

    Thanks for any thoughts or suggestions, and I'm not trying to knock Kind Soil in any way - it's been working well for me so far but a few of the threads I've seen here have me nervous things might not go quite so well once I get to flowering, so considering my options before the final transplant which will be happening in about a week.

    hotrodharley Well-Known Member

    Keep it simple yet build super soil? Back up. Go buy good soil with no additives and start again. KISS.

    MoonDuneBuggy Active Member

    The tent link isnt working right btw.

    I prefer using roots organics, it has always treated me well.

    Just know to fill 1/3 of the pot with super soil and the rest with base soil.

    Super soil recipes involve huuuuge portions. Doing some math I use the following to make a 8-9 quarts of super soil.

    8 quarts of roots organic soil
    2lb of organic worm casting
    3 ounces of steamed bone meal
    3 ounces of bloom bat guano
    1.5 ounces of blood meal
    1.5 ounces of rock phosphorus
    .50 tablespoon of epsom salts
    2 tablespoon of dolomite lime
    .35 tablespoon of azomite (trace elements)
    1\4 teaspoon of powdered humic acid (optional)
    2 1/2 cups of water

    Close the lid to the container let it sit for atleast 60 days shake and mix once every week or so.
    Cali Cajun likes this.

    Budzbuddha Well-Known Member

    Absolutely ^^^^ ... Save the super soil for the future .
    If you want good meds , grab the genetics to fit your med needs. Research the strains .
    Look at grows centered around the strains you like to see what you should be expecting.

    Keep things simple ... Good medium , good lights , simple nutes.
    Stay from multi bottle hype ... " special " mixes and other bullshit. Sunshine number 4 peat mix is available at Home Depot ... It is charged with beneficial microbes and is a light aerated mix perfect for container grows. Look for a 2 part nute or grab megacrop for a super easy 1 bag feed.
    Cali Cajun and hotrodharley like this.

    MoonDuneBuggy Active Member

    I think making something you just have to water is making it simple vs playing chemist down the road.

    When I make my batch that I just listed it takes no more than 5 min to put together and then just wait for it to cook. Ez peazy

    whoajoey Member

    Help .Hello all i am starting with roots 707 soil with perlite new grow for babys for a couple weeks
    then put in to 5 gal cont with amended soil with these .my question is after mixing this up
    how long does it have to sit before using it also after mixing do i water it and let sit thx

    should i mix 50 % reg - the 50% admenments
    i picked up some EWC castings
    blood meal
    bone meal
    plant food 4-3-4
    alfalfa meal
    dolomite lime
    kelplex 0.5-0-17
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018

    MoonDuneBuggy Active Member

    Talk about hijacking duuude...
    hotrodharley likes this.

    Budzbuddha Well-Known Member

    If you want a NO COOK batch .... Try this .

    It is ready right from the mix. No wetting and cooking required.
    This is a strong mix ( recommend for bottom 1/3 of a container ) and way too hot for seedlings But WILL take it thru flower all by itself. Water only.

    Simple and you can make half amounts according to needs and containers.


    For Organic soil ( bagged ) try this OMRI CERT soil from Dr. Earth. Full of beneficial ingredients WITHOUT chicken manure , bio sludge and FILLER BULLSHIT.

    I switched from ocean forest to this for SIMPLE container grows ...
    Fill and plant seed ... That's it. Home Depot has it for under $10 a bag.
    Add perlite. ( optional )


    whoajoey Member

    thanks just want to get it right

    hotrodharley Well-Known Member

    And doesn't get the hint. KISS!
    MoonDuneBuggy likes this.

    MoonDuneBuggy Active Member


    whoajoey Member

    i get it *ss lol
    Cali Cajun

    Cali Cajun Well-Known Member

    Excellent - thanks much! I'll try to figure out what's going on with the link.
    MoonDuneBuggy likes this.
    Cali Cajun

    Cali Cajun Well-Known Member

    That's what I'm hoping for (avoiding playing chemist) - I've got the space to make my own and wife does a lot of gardening as well, so it seemed like a good thing to start thinking about for a grow or two down the line.
    MoonDuneBuggy and coreywebster like this.

    coreywebster Well-Known Member

    Some really good folks in the organics section. Have a word with @Richard Drysift , proper nice chap and full of knowledge.
    Richard Drysift likes this.
    Cali Cajun

    Cali Cajun Well-Known Member

    Thanks Corey, will do!
    Richard Drysift

    Richard Drysift Well-Known Member

    Actually I'm an idiot. But I do have a basic working knowledge of how organic soil works. There's a lot to growing in organic or living soil. Your water source is important; if you are using chlorinated water that could be the cause of many issues.
    I am trying to understand what the problem is here; so you are using "kind" soil and your plants are now falling off? It doesn't really matter what soil you use as long as it is truly organic. The definition of organic or living soil is that it is active with microbes and fungi which is what you need to rely on in order for your plant to absorb what is in the soil. Devoid of microbial activity a sterile soil mix will force you to use a soluble nutrient to feed your plants or they will die a very slow death. There is a whole industry based on this fact; doesn't matter if you grow cannabis, tomatoes, or a lawn. That is also why you are getting so many responses saying k.i.s.s. and use a 2 part nutrient which of course is by far the easiest way to go. Not necessarily the best though IMO.
    If using nutrients is NOT your goal then you should learn a bit more about living soil growing. Go read this book True Living Organics by The is the basis of most of my knowledge so check it out and then you'll be a fucking expert too:

    That being said I have to tell you that I wish I knew about organic growing when I was starting out because it would have saved me a lot of money and time. Organic bud is the best tasting weed I've ever had hands down and I have not spent a dime on my grow in almost a year. Your grow can be totally self sufficient once you aquire all you need.
    You can very easily amend the soil you already have and then keep on recycling it forever. You should be top dressing with worm castings or giving compost teas to keep microbial populations active. Most issues with soil are related to microbial activity. You might think the mix is depleted when in fact it is inactive with microbes and the source is compost. Compost recharges the soil and helps plants fight diseases and a slew of other maladies. After each harvest you can recycle the soil by adding back more compost, fertilizers, and minerals in dry form for a slow release and then allow it to "cook" or set for 30 days to normalize the ph. In my experience it takes a few recycles before your mix achieves the coveted supernatural status where you can just give water only. I started out with FFOF and sunshine mix #4 and then just kept on amending and recycling the same mix for years now. There are also ways to keep your mix active and healthy when starting out with a fresh soil mix like using liquid fish/seaweed fertilizers, spikes, and compost teas.
    Like I said before there's a lot to this and the usual progression for the average joe noob is to start out with nutes and then go organic later on but that does not mean you have to. Lemme know if I can help; here's a link to my thread if ya want to see how I do it:
    Cali Cajun

    Cali Cajun Well-Known Member

    Thanks Richard for the detailed response! There hasn't really been too much of an issue with the Kind Soil for me so far. One of the five clones I started with basically quit growing after my last transplant, and I noticed that on that one plant the roots seemed to be browned / rotting on the outer layer of soil. The drainage on that one plant also went haywire for some reason - when I'd pick the pot up the weight never seemed to go down. Other than the lack of growth and browning on the roots, the plant seems completely healthy - it has just essentially gone into suspended animation and is growing at a fractional rate of the other plants. Over a week ago I topped the two highest nodes similar to one I had done with the other plants. But whereas those had very visible new shoots / nodes growing the next day after topping, this one has new shoots but growing incredibly slowly - they look like little nubbins. But other than the lack of growth, the plant looks very healthy - nice and green, all branches poking towards the light source (which now is the sun - I've moved it outside).

    My question with respect to Kind Soil was spurred by doing a forum search on Roll It Up to read up on previous grows, and I saw a few threads where people had previously had mixed results with using it - plants did really well up until flowering, and then began to exhibit problems. Some of the posters posited that the soil had run out of nutrients during veg phase. I was just curious to hear about other forum participants experiences if they had previously used Kind Soil, and if it might be a good idea to consider another organic soil prior to my final expected transplant, which I'm thinking will happen fairly soon. Some forum folks also reported issues with nutrient burn using Kind Soil, but I'm new / dumb enough about all this that I can't suss out if this is a soil problem specific to Kind Soil or user error.

    But thanks a ton, I do really appreciate your detailed response! I'm sure it's going to take time for all the great information on this forum to percolate into my brain, and I do realize a lot of this is specific to getting my environment dialed and dependent on the strain I'm growing. I'm having fun; everything I'm growing is for personal medical use; so huge yields isn't too important. I don't smoke a ton (a quarter to a half a month) so just interested in getting a clean, consistent crop for myself - a bit of bud; a bit of hash; and a bit of edibles. Don't need much; just healthy with a decent potency.
    Cali Cajun

    Cali Cajun Well-Known Member

    IMG_4229.JPG IMG_4227.JPG IMG_4609.JPG Tent babies doing noticeably better than lil sister, who previously seemed to be most vigorous plant.
    Capn-Crunch likes this.
    Richard Drysift

    Richard Drysift Well-Known Member

    I only grow weed for me and my ol lady too and it's so rewarding. Sounds like the one plant you are having issues with could be the result of bad drainage or anaerobic soil but smart pots should have prevented that. Overwatering is another potential cause but again smart pots make that almost impossible. Organic soils tend to be kinda heavy so adding extra perlite or pumice next time around might help.
    Most problems growing in soil is not from the soil itself; many times the root issues are from whatever else was added to the mix or the water source used. Your plants look very healthy to me. Just because somebody had issues with that soil doesn't mean a damn thing. Like I said growers think their shit is depleted after 6 weeks but it takes much longer than that for a plant to use up all the NPK value. What seems like depletion is many times just microbial inactivity. Giving water with chloramine and/or flouride can kill off the microherd in a matter of weeks. This is not the kiss of death though if they simply began a compost tea regiment their plants would bounce right back. Thing about Organics is that you gotta give what is needed way before it actually is but once your mix is active and fertile all you really need to add is clean water.
    I would stay the course and if you are worried about your plants sliding off or you want to give them a boost brew up a compost tea every few weeks. To ensure they stay that nice green color all through bloom phase maybe give them a liquid fish fert like Neptunes harvest and/or push a Jobes organic spike or 2 into each container; they feed for 8 weeks. Good luck and happy growing!!!
    Cali Cajun and Capn-Crunch like this.

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