New Zealand to change gun laws

Fogdog said:

"I know best, people must do as I say" is not an opinion but an idiotic demand.

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Show me that quote please. You take that sentence into quotation marks and present it as something i said or something i meant. Show me one direct quote where i said people must do as i say, please.

Fogdog said:

"all opinions are valid" doesn't cut the mustard either. We've been explaining ad nauseam what's wrong with his authoritarian ideas. At some point there is no reason to continue to listen.

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If you are classifying my ideas as authoritarian, i don’t think you know what authoritarian means or you haven’t read my posts.

crimsonecho said:

Yeah boi. I am learning this whole politics section is a joke.

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Shut up bitch.

crimsonecho said:

Show me that quote please. You take that sentence into quotation marks and present it as something i said or something i meant. Show me one direct quote where i said people must do as i say, please.

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crimsonecho said:

If you are classifying my ideas as authoritarian, i don’t think you know what authoritarian means or you haven’t read my posts.

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Your posts drip with authoritarian nonsense as in the posts of yours below when I pointed out that there is no good reason for taking guns away from EVERYBODY, even people who have a legitamate use for one. You still haven't come up with good reasons.

crimsonecho said:

As i said, i’m a pacifist so i will not condone owning guns but farms have guard dogs or should have guard dogs against these predators. Why exactly would you need guns when you can use electric fences, various siren like devices, guard dogs etc etc. As you see, i think there are other answers than owning a gun. And those populations have been under control until humans meddled in.

As for hunters, let them hunt with bow and arrow if they so choose to do. I think hunting is a despicable act when done as a sport. And a very brutal act in general. So i would rather see these hunters risk their life a bit to take the life of another. But if one needs to hunt to sustain oneself, but i mean really needs to hunt. No other way of getting a reliable protein source ok lets give that person a gun if he chooses to own one. No need to make people suffer when you have the technology. Other than that, no, there is no need for guns imo.

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crimsonecho said:

That predator became overpopulated because you took its land and killed its prey. So its now hungry and trapped and you have the meat and the land. Just leave its prey and its land alone. Take precautions if you want to be there. There are non lethal ones. Or a second choice. If we want to hunt for our food then lets abolish industrial animal farming and just let people hunt for the meat. Sorry but i think we need to make sacrifices if we want to progress (also if we want to exist at this point). Either just leave the nature alone or lets turn back to it completely. Either way we will be better off than we are now i think.

You cannot be thinking that we can just exploit the worlds resources endlessly and share it poorly and continue to exist. That will not happen. If we are gonna choose the “civil” world then guns needs to go and hunting for sport or for the meat (even when you can get reliable and quality protein near you) needs to go too. This voice of a spoiled child who always says “me me me” is leading us on the dark path of our self destruction.

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Fogdog said:

"all opinions are valid" doesn't cut the mustard either. We've been explaining ad nauseam what's wrong with his authoritarian ideas. At some point there is no reason to continue to listen.

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i believe what i said was "your opinion is just as valid to you as mine is to me"...didn't say "your opinion is just as valid as mine"...did i? because i did not mean to grant legitimacy to either....

Fogdog said:

Your posts drip with authoritarian nonsense as in the posts of yours below when I pointed out that there is no good reason for taking guns away from EVERYBODY, even people who have a legitamate use for one. You still haven't come up with good reasons.

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Your whole mentality is authoritarian sorry, you are a fascist. Still waiting for the quotes about me saying everyone should do as i say. You judge peoples ideas and you classify them as you please. Without any data to back it up. I’m still waiting for a direct quotation and an argument that doesn’t rely on your convictions about human nature.

crimsonecho said:

If you are classifying my ideas as authoritarian, i don’t think you know what authoritarian means or you haven’t read my posts.

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Makin' lots of new friends, Che?

tangerinegreen555 said:

Makin' lots of new friends, Che?

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I’m up for anything joseph. But not with thought police,

tangerinegreen555 said:

Makin' lots of new friends, Che?

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You don't have that idiot on ignore yet?

TacoMac said:

You don't have that idiot on ignore yet?

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Ahhahaha. Classic.

crimsonecho said:

Your whole mentality is authoritarian sorry, you are a fascist. Still waiting for the quotes about me saying everyone should do as i say. You judge peoples ideas and you classify them as you please. Without any data to back it up. I’m still waiting for a direct quotation and an argument that doesn’t rely on your convictions about human nature.

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Hey, I'm the one who says public policy should be based solely upon reason and facts and not morality You are the one who goes on and on about how we should follow your values.

Oh and another thing. How is it possible to be both anarchic and demand everybody give up their property? Communism IS authoritarian. It always has been.

crimsonecho said:

I’m up for anything joseph. But not with thought police,

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They're lookin' for you in Bolivia.

They have an axe to grind about that missle crisis you stuck your nose in.

crimsonecho said:

I’m up for anything joseph. But not with thought police,

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What was the name of your last account?

Fogdog said:

Hey, I'm the one who says public policy should be based solely upon reason and facts and not my own values. You are the one who goes on and on about how we should follow your values.

Oh and another thing. How is it possible to be both anarchic and demand everybody give up their property? Communism IS authoritarian. It always has been.

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Ok. You should really do some reading. Both on communism and anarchism and then anarchist communism.

Secondly, what you are saying is not that important, what you are practicing is authoritarianism. You think you can judge peoples ideologies without even know what kind of a social structure they include or very basicaly what they are. Even if you do know, you or anyone else cannot judge ones ideology. That is intellectual fascism. Debating is something else.

For the last time, please show me where i said we should all follow my values.

crimsonecho said:

Ok. You should really do some reading. Both on communism and anarchism and then anarchist communism.

Secondly, what you are saying is not that important, what you are practicing is authoritarianism. You think you can judge peoples ideologies without even know what kind of a social structure they include or very basicaly what they are. Even if you do know, you or anyone else cannot judge ones ideology. That is intellectual fascism. Debating is something else.

For the last time, please show me where i said we should all follow my my values.

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What was the reason that your last account was banned for?

tangerinegreen555 said:

They're lookin' for you in Bolivia.

They have an axe to grind about that missle crisis you stuck your nose in.

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Yeah, you know what they still remember me and my ideals.

Hey this is fun should we keep doing this, come on joseph come out to play, where are you in your bunker?

crimsonecho said:

Ok. You should really do some reading. Both on communism and anarchism and then anarchist communism.

Secondly, what you are saying is not that important, what you are practicing is authoritarianism. You think you can judge peoples ideologies without even know what kind of a social structure they include or very basicaly what they are. Even if you do know, you or anyone else cannot judge ones ideology. That is intellectual fascism. Debating is something else.

For the last time, please show me where i said we should all follow my my values.

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LOL

If we don't agree follow your morality, you are going to talk us to death.

Without a good reason for taking EVERYBODY's guns away then your endlessly and poorly explained reasons why EVERYBODY must give up their guns is not justified.

There is no good reason for why hunters and ranchers cannot keep their guns so long as they meet certain safety and storage requirements. Use Canada's gun regulations as a template for what safety and storage requirements mean. Refute that without dropping into a sermon on your morality.

Calves liver with fried basil:

crimsonecho said:

I don’t need you to agree with it. You claim to know you have a complete understanding of humanity then? Seeing as you can disregard mine. I have never blamed anyone for not agreeing with me by the way. Never hurled insults either.

As for people, people may not understand or think in the same manner as i do. This is debating. No one is right, no one is wrong. Unlike some of you i am not an intellectual fascist. People have their ideas and its fine.

What i like to know is do you have anything besides your own convictions about humans to support your arguments. I don’t see one. I can back my claims with models proposed by well known sociologists and theoreticians. While none of you basically proposed anyhting other than “human nature”. You don’t see your idea of civilization as flawed but i do. Ok. You are free to believe what you want to. I’m not trying to convert anyone. Just offering my point of view to the ones who may care about it. If no one does care thats ok too. My ego really is not that fragile.

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Scientology recipe

Rob Roy said:

So you accept the idea that a statutory law is what makes an action "criminal", not the traits of the action itself?

For instance do you believe when it was legal to own slaves, it wasn't a wrongful or "criminal act" to own them and it only became wrong/criminal when the law changed to abolish
chattel slavery ?

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If someone points a weapon at a police officer then yes they show expect the action that follows.

Fogdog said:

LOL

If we don't follow your values you are going to talk us to death.

Without a good reason for taking EVERYBODY's guns away then your endlessly and poorly explained reasons why EVERYBODY must give up their guns is not justified.

There is no good reason for why hunters and ranchers cannot keeping the guns so long as they meet certain safety and storage requirements. Use Canada's gun regulations as a template for what safety and storage requirements mean. Refute that without dropping into a sermon on your morality.

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Look. I respect your opinions. I don’t insult, i don’t ridicule. You are the one who is disrespectful against mine and you keep trying to convert me onto your ideas. I gave you reasons for it you don’t think they are valid. Ok. Again my ego is not that fragile. I talked about how this perceived civilization is fascistic in nature and the hypocrisy about guns is funny to me because when someones starts to talk about guns in relationship to their freedom, i ask myself what freedom? Authoritanism is everywhere. Yeah a ban on guns would shatter the perception of personal freedom. Perception of it. In reality no one is free. So i think yeah the goverment should ban them all just so you can see that people are not in control of anything. They don’t and they will not tho. Because they are in the pocket of gun manufacturers. Again people are not in control. What you want or what i want or what we advocate doesn’t change shit.

This is not my morality. I have no morals in the sence you refer. I have ethics and an ideology. These could be considered as my morality if you insist on using the term but these “morals” have been constructed by me in the light of evidence and reason. Your morals are different. Look, i respect it. It is just that easy.