New to rollitup.org - New CFL Grower - Think I may have issues already. Help!

Tails do not count lol. I know a girl smoked all the way through her pregnancy, not advising it since I am not a doctor, hell if she was my baby mama I might not let her partake as f'ed up as that may sound. Not enough research out there for me to be ok with it I guess... Everything in moderation though right... Besides her kid is 3 and speaks fluently and runs very coordinatedly, wish I could say the same for my nephew, somethings wrong with that boy lol....

Well, I'd say they appear to be liking the new soil and thriving in it very well. The only one that still looks a little sickly is the one in the back middle. The other ones, especially the one on the bottom right, are showing all green leaves and healthy-looking, too! I do have one problem. My soil gets dry in 3-4 days. Can I continue to water seedlings lightly or heavily? I have read in different places to let the soil dry out to let the roots grow longer and I have heard of people watering their seedlings every 2-3 days with a bit of run-off and no issue. What are your thoughts?

haoleflip said:

Well, I'd say they appear to be liking the new soil and thriving in it very well. The only one that still looks a little sickly is the one in the back middle. The other ones, especially the one on the bottom right, are showing all green leaves and healthy-looking, too! I do have one problem. My soil gets dry in 3-4 days. Can I continue to water seedlings lightly or heavily? I have read in different places to let the soil dry out to let the roots grow longer and I have heard of people watering their seedlings every 2-3 days with a bit of run-off and no issue. What are your thoughts?

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Question... What type of drainage do you have set up for those cups? Don't over-water by any means...just my .02

haoleflip said:

This time what I've decided to do is "play with" some of them like you suggested. I think my best bet right now will be trial and error.

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I couldn't agree more. Try to enjoy yourself while you are at it.

I haven't read the whole thread.. but here is my advice if you want a direction to head...

Try coco coir. It is impossible to over water. Just water when the pot feels noticeably lighter.. Pickup a bag of Coco Coir (House and Garden, Canna, ReadyGro, whatever) and a bottle of Dyna Gro liquid fert, 9-3-6 foliage pro... some ph strips and some ph down. Get a bucket and a pump to mix your water... have a drainable space (like a sink) to water your plants over.

If you need to save cash you can ex the pump,,, just stir with a large spoon or your hand.

Read the passage on soilless mix from the grow bible (cervantes). No $ for the book? Chill at Barnes n Noble for an hour.. Coco coir is a soilless mix. No nutrients in this mix, so all food comes from your water source (using Dyna Gro 9-3-6, low cost high quality fert that can be used from seed to harvest).

Pop your seeds in a 1 qt pot. (.30 cents each)
You might get algae on the surface (green), not a big deal, just lightly scrape it off as it shows... after your coco gets some cover (plant leaves) it will stop growing.
PH to 6.
Start with 1/8 teaspoon per gallon.
Move to 1/4 teaspoon per gallon after your first couple sets of leaves, maybe 5 inches growth
Move to 1/2 teaspoon per gallon when the plant is 8 inches tall.

Soiless is easy. You can't overwater, you can easily flush out a mistake, root systems do very well as long as you don't let the plant wilt.

Another piece of advice... rather than vegging under cfls... get yourself a T8 2 bulb 4 ft strip from Lowes... $20 for the fixture... 8 for the bulbs... Get a spectrum around 4100k. CFL are intense lighting from a single source... A T8 strip will be much easier to grow seedlings and veg under... to flower, you can always use the strip and then hang cfls off centered from the strip.

There is nothing wrong with MG soil. It is just easy to over water. If someone says MG will kill a plant it is because they either are not speaking from experience or they still have basic gardening skills to acquire. This is common in cannabis growing. Many (if not most) cannabis growers have no other gardening experience... lots and lots of hearsay.

If something in my post does not make sense or is something you already cleared up, i apologize, i did not read the whole thread.

If you need help with anything PM me.

Figong said:

Question... What type of drainage do you have set up for those cups? Don't over-water by any means...just my .02

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I have huge holes at the bottom. Four of them to be exact.

Alrighty, just making sure so we didn't have a nasty surprise is all. Lookin' good for the most part!

HeartlandHank said:

I couldn't agree more. Try to enjoy yourself while you are at it.

I haven't read the whole thread.. but here is my advice if you want a direction to head...

Try coco coir. It is impossible to over water. Just water when the pot feels noticeably lighter.. Pickup a bag of Coco Coir (House and Garden, Canna, ReadyGro, whatever) and a bottle of DG 9-3-6 foliage pro... some ph strips and some ph down. Get a bucket and a pump to mix your water... have a drainable space (like a sink) to water your plants over.

Read the passage on soilless mix from the grow bible (cervantes).

PH to 6.
Start with 1/8 teaspoon per gallon on first watering.
Move to 1/4 teaspoon per gallon until your first you have a couple sets of leaves, maybe 5 inches growth
Move to 1/2 teaspoon per gallon when the plant is 7 inches tall.

Soiless is easy. You can't overwater, you can easily flush out a mistake, root system do very well as long as you don't let the plant wilt.

If you need help with anything PM me.

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Thanks for the advice. I am enjoying myself, just wish they'd grow faster!

I have them in FF Light Warrior right now, which I heard was also effective. I had them in some MG potting soil before the FFLW and that's why you see a bit of yellowing and nute burn. I always water until I see a little dribble come out of the bottom, but I find the soil to become dry after 2-3 days because I think I have a lot of perlite which lets the soil breathe and allows more oxygen to flow to the roots so the surrounding soil dries faster...? I'm not sure on that exactly, but it sounds about right?

Can I access the grow bible for free somewhere? Are ph strips really that effective?

haoleflip said:

Thanks for the advice. I am enjoying myself, just wish they'd grow faster!

I have them in FF Light Warrior right now, which I heard was also effective. I had them in some MG potting soil before the FFLW and that's why you see a bit of yellowing and nute burn. I always water until I see a little dribble come out of the bottom, but I find the soil to become dry after 2-3 days because I think I have a lot of perlite which lets the soil breathe and allows more oxygen to flow to the roots so the surrounding soil dries faster...? I'm not sure on that exactly, but it sounds about right?

Can I access the grow bible for free somewhere? Are ph strips really that effective?

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Perlite is solid for aeration and drainage both, without question. pH strips are effective enough to get the job done until you can afford a meter, or unless you're colorblind. If colorblind, you may opt for the meter asap.

Ph strips work well. You can do without them, but you see better growth with ph'd nutrient solution.
I used to use Light Warrior, good stuff... They jacked the price waaay up over the last few years though, if I remember correctly.

Light warrior is very similar to coco. Light warrior will dry out faster. The thing I didn't like about it is that the window between moist soil and wilted plant is so short. Coco has a little more of a window to water. Light warrior will work fine though.

Grow bible... Probably could just sit at a book store and read it... torrents are an option i suppose.

Sounds like you are better off than I thought from just popping in on this thread. I'll do some reading of this thread tmrw and see if I can't jump in and help as well.... I grew in light warrior for a year or two... I liked it more than any of the other peat pre mixes I tried... good choice. IMO, unless you are getting it for less $ than coco, coco would be a good option to try at some point in the future. The learning curve from peat to coco is nothing, but i bet you will have a little bit of an easier time and healthier plants.

Yep, the oxygen drainage thing sounds about right... Using peat mix is growing hydroponically. You get air delivered to the roots by gravity during watering... when the water runs through the pot it forces old air out and pulls new air in. Since you water more often with peat mix, you get more air exchange than you do with soil. Also, the water delivers nutrients (assuming you mix them in). Hydroponic = no nutrients in the medium, nutrients come from your water/nutrient solution. Soil = nutrients are in the medium, add plain water... in general.

haoleflip said:

Thanks for the advice. I am enjoying myself, just wish they'd grow faster!

I have them in FF Light Warrior right now, which I heard was also effective. I had them in some MG potting soil before the FFLW and that's why you see a bit of yellowing and nute burn. I always water until I see a little dribble come out of the bottom, but I find the soil to become dry after 2-3 days because I think I have a lot of perlite which lets the soil breathe and allows more oxygen to flow to the roots so the surrounding soil dries faster...? I'm not sure on that exactly, but it sounds about right?

Can I access the grow bible for free somewhere? Are ph strips really that effective?

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Ph strips work well. You can do without them, but you see better growth with ph'd nutrient solution. Soil is a little more forgiving. When growing hydro, ph makes a difference. strips and a little down is super cheap.... I actually prefer the liquid and vial ph measure over the strips.... You get a little vile with a fill line... fill your vile with water... drop 3-5 drops in and observe the color.... very effective. strips are harder to read..
I used to use Light Warrior, good stuff... They jacked the price waaay up over the last few years though, if I remember correctly.

Light warrior is very similar to coco. Light warrior will dry out faster. The thing I didn't like about it is that the window between moist soil and wilted plant is so short. Coco has a little more of a window to water. Light warrior will work fine though.

Probably could just sit at a book store and read it... torrents are an option i suppose.

Sounds like you are better off than I thought from just popping in on this thread. I'll do some reading of this thread tmrw and see if I can't jump in and help as well.... I grew in light warrior for a year or two... I liked it more than any of the other peat pre mixes I tried... good choice. IMO, unless you are getting it for less $ than coco, coco would be a good option to try at some point in the future. The learning curve from peat to coco is nothing, but i bet you will like coco coir more than peat.. I went from LWarrior to coco... I've been doing coco ever since... something like 4-5 years now. Great stuff.

haoleflip said:

Thanks for the advice. I am enjoying myself, just wish they'd grow faster!

I have them in FF Light Warrior right now, which I heard was also effective. I had them in some MG potting soil before the FFLW and that's why you see a bit of yellowing and nute burn. I always water until I see a little dribble come out of the bottom, but I find the soil to become dry after 2-3 days because I think I have a lot of perlite which lets the soil breathe and allows more oxygen to flow to the roots so the surrounding soil dries faster...? I'm not sure on that exactly, but it sounds about right?

Can I access the grow bible for free somewhere? Are ph strips really that effective?

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Hank is right, coco is the best ever because it's so forgiving. I've never had problems with my water levels in the medium ever since I switched to coco. Next time you're at your local hydro store look into a bag of coco and mix half of it with half of the OF or 1/4th OF, 1/4th LW, and 1/2 coco. Perlite is nice like someone above mentioned, however coco has such good drainage on its own you really don't need the perlite when you use coco.

I couldn't help but notice your post about all the different advice you're getting from the different forums and well, that's the way it's gonna go. Growing is an art and like any other form of art everyone has their own way of doing things as well as their own preferences. Some people think rap music is the best where as others think metal is the best. Neither one are actually better or worse than one another, they're just different styles is all. Same thing with growing. Some people love going the hydro route and never having to deal with the plants except for changing reservoirs and trimming. Personally I prefer the organic route of making my own compost teas/growing mediums and constantly giving love to my babies They're two completely different styles, but of the exact same practice (much like music).

A lot of people will tell you that going cheap will yield bad results and this is almost always true. However if you look hard enough I'm sure there are people that have had great results with CFLs and Miracle Grow, just because it's unlikely doesn't mean it isn't possible Just listen to the advice you get, do your best, and don't get discouraged. Even a bad yield is good because the experience you yield from each grow is always the same. Your next grow is gonna be way better because you'll spend a ton of time thinking about what you could have done different. I just built myself a really nice insulated room that I'm quite proud of, however the day after finishing it I was already thinking about how I could make a better set up!

Can't wait to see how your girls turn out and best of luck to you my man!

These existing plants have already been through a lot, so I'll wait for the next time to get coco. Thanks for the tip though!

kratos015 said:

Hank is right, coco is the best ever because it's so forgiving. I've never had problems with my water levels in the medium ever since I switched to coco. Next time you're at your local hydro store look into a bag of coco and mix half of it with half of the OF or 1/4th OF, 1/4th LW, and 1/2 coco. Perlite is nice like someone above mentioned, however coco has such good drainage on its own you really don't need the perlite when you use coco.

I couldn't help but notice your post about all the different advice you're getting from the different forums and well, that's the way it's gonna go. Growing is an art and like any other form of art everyone has their own way of doing things as well as their own preferences. Some people think rap music is the best where as others think metal is the best. Neither one are actually better or worse than one another, they're just different styles is all. Same thing with growing. Some people love going the hydro route and never having to deal with the plants except for changing reservoirs and trimming. Personally I prefer the organic route of making my own compost teas/growing mediums and constantly giving love to my babies They're two completely different styles, but of the exact same practice (much like music).

A lot of people will tell you that going cheap will yield bad results and this is almost always true. However if you look hard enough I'm sure there are people that have had great results with CFLs and Miracle Grow, just because it's unlikely doesn't mean it isn't possible Just listen to the advice you get, do your best, and don't get discouraged. Even a bad yield is good because the experience you yield from each grow is always the same. Your next grow is gonna be way better because you'll spend a ton of time thinking about what you could have done different. I just built myself a really nice insulated room that I'm quite proud of, however the day after finishing it I was already thinking about how I could make a better set up!

Can't wait to see how your girls turn out and best of luck to you my man!

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So, you're saying mix coco with regular soil?
I'm just asking man, not being a smartass, I am a soil user, but it seems you would be kind of reducing any benefits the coco has over soil if you mixed the two together.

Bakatare666 said:

So, you're saying mix coco with regular soil?
I'm just asking man, not being a smartass, I am a soil user, but it seems you would be kind of reducing any benefits the coco has over soil if you mixed the two together.

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Yeah it works great for me, I make sure that the mix has more coco in it than soil though. Ever since I started mixing soil up with coco I've noticed some awesome results. I used to take 1/4 bag of FFOF and 1/4 bag of FFHF which is a little over 7 gallons of soil. I then get a 5kg/2.5 cuft block of coco wet and ready to go which turns into a little under 19 gallons of coco. The end result is 25-26 gallons of a coco dominate medium with there only being about 1/4-1/3 soil in the medium and the rest all being coco.

When I would throw my plants in straight FFOF I would have problems. If the strain was too picky then I'd have to deal with nute burn and watering was always a bit of a pain. Sometimes you'd need to water the soil daily, other times if you water the soil daily you're over-watering it. I'm no expert, so when I can have the medium worry about things like that I'm more than happy to use it! Using coco literally changed everything for me, you would think that you'd be reducing the benefits of each mediums by combining them but you're actually creating something in which the two mediums help to counter their separate flaws.

Like the problems I was having with FFOF being too hot, when you mix it with coco you pretty much eliminate that, or at least those have been my results for the past year of using it. Also, because my medium has 65-75% coco in it I get the drainage that coco has to offer without the need to add perlite anymore. I haven't had any problems with over or under-watering in the past year. It's literally like a sponge so coco will only absorb what it can hold and nothing more. The roots I get are also well established because they're able to move around easily in coco. It may not seem like a whole lot, but when I combine this with Subcool's Supersoil and some compost tea recipes the results are pretty amazing And doesn't Roots Organic has a soil mix that has some coco in it? I only glanced at the ingredients and saw coco so I'm not quite sure what else it has in it and would love to hear from someone with experience using that mix as I've been wanting to try it for a bit now.

Sounds interesting.
Thanks for the explanation!

They should be perked up by now, how's it going?

Apomixis said:

They should be perked up by now, how's it going?

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Good question, am wondering that myself

Apomixis said:

They should be perked up by now, how's it going?

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If you guys are asking me, all are doing good in the new FF Light Warrior except for one of them. Maybe you guys can help me out with it.

These two below are good and are about 1 week and 4 days apart. The one on the bottom is my biggest and healthiest one. I am hoping this one is a female. As you can see, the first set of leaves are hurting from the nute burn, but the new sets coming in are nice and green, so I'm guessing they like the soil!


This guy looks like cabbage haha. I can tell it's a different strain than the others because of the way it already looks, but all seems well here too.


These two also look good. Nice and green. The back one's first leaves are like my biggest plant. They are hurting from past stress/nute burn, but the new leaves coming in are nice and green. The bottom one is a seedling I started in the new soil 7 days ago.


This is the one I'm most concerned about. It is still growing, but very very slowly and it looks very yellow and droopy. This is one of the ones that went through like 3 different soils, so I'm sure it is stressed out and probably has a couple of deficiencies. Should I end this one or try to rescue it somehow?


The soil is also drying out pretty quickly still. About every 2-3 days. SHould I water heavily, lightly or hold out?

Would let the last one get adjusted to the 3rd soil change, stick to water only, or water and -very very- light nutes. That said.. don't go heavy on the water or it could induce further sagging amongst other things. As for different strain, I wouldn't say it's a different strain at this point.. way too soon to say that. I would lean more toward different phenotype(s) if anything without further growth to make an accurate assessment.

bigv1976 said:

And it gets even better.... We still have people that believe the bullshit LED companies are trying to sell? A 420w LED couldnt wipe a 1k hps's ass let alone replace it.

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You're right on man the stuff I've seen grown under LEDS looked like shit