New to LED looking for assistance designing a light

Ive been growing in a 3x3 space with a 4.5' height. I run a 400w mh for veg and a 600w HPS for flower in a cooltube and fan. The issues im having are slightly high temps in flower (high 80s) and the cooling tubes being in the way. Electric bills arent that high but could always be cheaper. Im wanting something I can use in both veg and flower. Dimmable might be a plus. Ive done alot of reading on the subject but there are just so many ways to go and opinions on the matter. If somebody could point me in the right direction on components to buy and where to get them id appreciate it.

For a situation like that with so little height you could get away with a very simple and cost effective small build and get so really good results. Normally I would say get closer to 400w to replace that 600w...but you could get away with 250w of true high efficiency.

What kind of yields are you pulling currently.

You will need a couple inches overhead and the lamp itself is going to be a couple inches, then 4-6 inches between the lamp and canopy. You could probably get by with 10 inches between the tops of the plants and the top of the tent. Vero 29 or CXB 3070 at 25 (.7 amps) watts each is probably the best bet as far as getting plants 4-6 inches from the emitters, no lens or reflector. 9 3070 AD bin would provide a bit over 650 PPFD which might be a good intensity for that size grow box. With driver loss and 3 cooling fans you're looking at around 240-250 watts. Make it 12 emitters for PPFD in the mid-upper 800 PPFD range and total wattage ends up around 350-360. Vero 29 will be about 10% less light -vs- the CXBs with wattage being a bit over the given figures. If you went with CXB 3590s PPFD would be around 750 PPFD using 9 and about 10 watts less. Using 12 would put the PPFD around 1000.

A single HLG-240H-C700 would power 9 of any of those emitters. Getting ahold of one of them would require contacting a distributor and having them order one. I don't think it's likely to just show up on it's own any time soon. As a substitute you could run 2 HLG-120H-c700s

You could also play around with the math using 1.05 amps. I'm thinking you would want to keep the emitters 6-8 inches from the canopy in such a setup.

Greengenes707 said:

For a situation like that with so little height you could get away with a very simple and cost effective small build and get so really good results. Normally I would say get closer to 400w to replace that 600w...but you could get away with 250w of true high efficiency.

What kind of yields are you pulling currently.

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Usually very close to a pound on Pennywise. It's been a good strain.

So you can run the same light for both veg and flower? Just change the cycle? I've flowered on the 400hps before but when I switched to the 600hps my buds really plumped up. Can expect similar results with 400w of led? I grow scrog and do some super cropping in flower when they stretch and do far I've had plenty of height. The 600 is close. I've had some bleaching on the tips of my buds a few times.

9 CXB3590s at .7 amps, total power usage including fans would be about 250 watts, maybe around 12-13 ounces. 12 CXB3590s at .7 amps, 305 watts, little over a pound. 16 CXB3590s at .7 amps, just over 400 watts, maybe 1.5 lbs. Estimates are in hydro. 400w would easily grow a lb in soil.

Bonjour
No problem with cxb @1400mA in a 3.5x3.5x4.5!...I have 4 and 220...one more in the middle will be ok...!
I can let the canopy at 8 and the tallest is at 6 inches!...no bleaching!
So 5 cxb 3590 3500ºk 36V cd on an hlg-240-1400b would perfect and cheaper!
I finish in 2 weeks I would tell you how much I pulled from 210w! (About 300gr I guess!) In organic amended soil plus tap water!
CU

Should I run one large heatsink or make a frame with separate heatsinks and fans for each cxb?

Bonjour
I went with 1 cob 1 hs to be anle to spread the lights the best way possible so by putting 1 cob in the middle of each quarter of my grow space...and maybe it is why I have no bleaching.
It is one of cob advantage so don't squeeze them!
I of those can light a 2x2...a 1.5x1.5 better so after it is upgrading...I mean it is to get more gpw...but 4 in a 3x3 would be enough to get decent gpw (1.5 maybe more in soil)
It is 350 $ for a 220w panel...4× 55w!
Think like you have 4 lamp...what you will do with hps...glue all 4 in the middle of the room or spray it?
CU

If 5 is enough id probably make a frame and put one on each corner then one in the middle. Will i need a separate transformer for the fans or can the drivers handle that as well?

You will need a 5 or 12 V power supply for the fans. If you don't have one laying around you can get meanwell APV-12-12s anywhere you can buy the LED drivers. They provide 1 amp of current so you can use that information to find out how many fans will fit on a single driver. There are larger and smaller ones, APV-8-12, APV-35-12 etc.

Thanks everybody! Learned lots tonight. So 3500k on all lights? or should I add something else for bloom? How about high limit switches in case i would lose a fan? Any good retailers for the parts required?

ill be running this on 240v if that makes any difference. My room is set up for 240 or 120.

3500 is the best K temp IMO. as far as thermal protection, design the light to run without fans. 5 in an X shape is pretty sweet, but you could do 2 bar lamps, each with 3 emitters at 1.4 amps and get some high intensity going in there. Run each 3 emitters on a HLG-120H-C1400B and hook the dim wires to a switch or potentiometer.

That way you could build two lamps, each on a 30" piece of the 4.886" profile from heatsinkusa.com. Put a fan on each and if the fan were to fail the lamp would continue to run no problems.

You could also consider 8 CXBs at 1.05 amps, 4 each on a 120H-C1400B. I'm trying to talk you into lower currents because A- you're height limited and B- it's DIY, saving some money so why not go the extra mile with a few bucks more and build something special? Lowering the current costs more up front but it will all come back to you over time anyway. Even using more emitters at .7 amps you come out good over the long run. Worth giving some thought if you have the cash to play with.

At 1.05 amps CXB3590s are 60% efficient and 195 LPW 8 of them in a 3x3 would total about 320 watts including driver loss and fan power, and would provide 1000 PPFD.

Im a firm believer in spending money upfront the first time. Ive been down that road with tools/equipment before. Ill reread all this in the morning......for some reason im kinda foggy tonight. Thanks again.

whats the difference between the G and H models of the cxb3590s? The H is about $10 higher.

Whats the difference between the G and H models of the 3590s? Also where do I find the nice cob holders i keep seeing pictures of? Cant find them on Mouser

Bonjour
It is better to run big cob at low Amp to get efficiency...
The perfect match for a 3x3 would be 1 cob over each sq/ft...so 9 cob at 30w...270w!
As for heat...no problem...I have 26/27ºC lights on and just a square fan in the box and passive intake...nothing else! No extractor fan mine is out of order...kaput...it was old...I need a new one but a smaller...I can't made my mind on a size...I had a 6 inches but I guess 5 or even 4 would be ok now?!
What size of extractor vent size do you have for your 4.5? (135cm)
CU

Bonjour
90% of cxb owners bought it at kingbrite on alibaba...ask Jerry for the prices! (You should mention riu and an avatar of customer like me to get a discount! ) it is 45$ for top bin chips 1.50 $ for holder and 52.50$ for hlg driver so 238.50 $ plus 40 $ shipping.
And more you take cheaper it is cause shipping cost less...but it is cheaper anyway...compare!
Are you in US or EU for hs?
CU

G and H refers to 2 steps or 3 steps...we don't care!
CU

I think I found all the parts I need. Just researching dimming circuits now and trying to decide on a configuration. Would it be beneficial to include 2 5000k imiters on a separate driver to use during flower? Or can I get good results with just 3500k? I'm planning on running 6 3590s (3 on each heatsink) with 2 drivers (dimming), 2 fans and will use my existing 240v line.

selfmedicator462 said:

I think I found all the parts I need. Just researching dimming circuits now and trying to decide on a configuration. Would it be beneficial to include 2 5000k imiters on a separate driver to use during flower? Or can I get good results with just 3500k? I'm planning on running 6 3590s (3 on each heatsink) with 2 drivers (dimming), 2 fans and will use my existing 240v line.

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Im looking to do the same setup for a 1.2m tall 2x3 space. Id imagine that 6 cobs spread out running at 1.05a would get a good PPFD in either space, maybe Rahz can chime in

Bonjour
You could use 220v it is better for driver efficiency than 110v.
So you will have two in wide and 3 long...it will be 1 on each sq/ft in long...good! ...
You are going to fell the difference! Because 600w hps in a 3x3 is above the max you can use...it must be so hot!
And now it will be so cool...lol!
Enjoy your new light and If you are what your avatar says...Thank you very much for what you did for everyone!
CU

DISTRESS0R said:

Im looking to do the same setup for a 1.2m tall 2x3 space. Id imagine that 6 cobs spread out running at 1.05a would get a good PPFD in either space, maybe Rahz can chime in

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Bonjour
With 1.20m tall and a 2x3 so 6 sq/ft you will need 5 cxb 3590 @1050mA on an hlg-185-1050b...!
I have 1.35m tall and I have 4 cxb3590 @1400mA without any lens or reflector (it is not possible to sell panel without...one spraying and you burn your chips!)and no problems...maybe I will have some (bleaching) when I will have more watts!
Or maybe you should aim for 700mA to be more comfortable...maybe smaller cob too...maybe cxa/b 2530/40 it is 56% efficient @500mA or 700mA I am not sure...but 3590 @1050mA would be nice!
CU