New Samsung influx
- Thread starter bärenjude
- Start date
leather lungs
Well-Known Member
You might get more help in the led section
coreywebster
Well-Known Member
Looks just like the h series strips but with lm301b diode intead of the lm561c if you got the double row strip it would be pretty similar I think.
vostok
Well-Known Member
bärenjude
Member
Somewhere i read the Influx are much more efficient.
Atm I'm using 10 cree cxa3070 that I've build a feew years ago, but I've damaged some at my last house move. So I looked for a replacement. The Cxa3070 is end of life. The cxa3070 are also not verry efficient.
So I've looked i some Blogs and found out that Samsungs Stripes are on the top atm.
I've planned following setup :
2 Lamps one 60x90cm one 30x90cm
Stripe pcs mA W efficiency PPFD
F562B 15 700 229.11 58.50% 1226
H282D 13 400 118.53 55.10% 1175
The old led has a PPFD of 800 and 408W. The new two will have a PPFD of 1200 and 347.64W.
The Question is will the Influx be better then the F562B and hthe H282D. More efficient? less power for 1200PPFD?
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They are a little more effecient per diode but the f series has twice as many diodes so you can run at lower current so it should even out. the hiflux line would be more effecient
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
Q-series and H-influx series both use LM301b.
H-influx L06 is a 2footer like F562B but with 8s11p instead of 8s9p(LM561c), 88 vs. 72 diodes. So not only better diodes but also ~22% more of them. When driven at the same current H-influx should be at least 10% or so better/more efficient.
2ft. Q-series strips(40 diodes) also use LM301b maybe even better binnings but until we get answer from Sammy it is just an unconfirmed guess. But Q-series can be cheaper because you need at least twice as much strips. If you can take 25pcs they become even cheaper compared to H-influx L06.
Samsung has partially messed up the calculator numbers for LM301b and partly uses the same values for 3000, 3500 and 4000°k. That makes it even harder to figure it out which bins are used. As it stands today I would say Samsung uses only the 2nd best flux bin on H-influx but top flux bin on Q-series strips but that's still unconfirmed.
At 525mA a 4000°K Q strip would still deliver +200lm/w and would run with ~11.5w. I do not know if an L06 at 1050mA comes to the same efficiency.
Here is the calculator link. You can try to figure it out using calculator and H-influx datasheet. Especially the 3000°k strips would have much better numbers with top flux bin. Voltage bin is probably AZ on both Q- and H-influx at least it fits much better.
http://www.samsung.com/global/business/led/support/tools/calculator-pkg
For estimations with Q-series strip I would use their engine calculator. But when I used it the last time the new H-influx were not yet integrated, only the old influx series.
http://www.samsung.com/led/support/tools/engine-calculator/
H-influx L06 is a 2footer like F562B but with 8s11p instead of 8s9p(LM561c), 88 vs. 72 diodes. So not only better diodes but also ~22% more of them. When driven at the same current H-influx should be at least 10% or so better/more efficient.
2ft. Q-series strips(40 diodes) also use LM301b maybe even better binnings but until we get answer from Sammy it is just an unconfirmed guess. But Q-series can be cheaper because you need at least twice as much strips. If you can take 25pcs they become even cheaper compared to H-influx L06.
Samsung has partially messed up the calculator numbers for LM301b and partly uses the same values for 3000, 3500 and 4000°k. That makes it even harder to figure it out which bins are used. As it stands today I would say Samsung uses only the 2nd best flux bin on H-influx but top flux bin on Q-series strips but that's still unconfirmed.
At 525mA a 4000°K Q strip would still deliver +200lm/w and would run with ~11.5w. I do not know if an L06 at 1050mA comes to the same efficiency.
Here is the calculator link. You can try to figure it out using calculator and H-influx datasheet. Especially the 3000°k strips would have much better numbers with top flux bin. Voltage bin is probably AZ on both Q- and H-influx at least it fits much better.
http://www.samsung.com/global/business/led/support/tools/calculator-pkg
For estimations with Q-series strip I would use their engine calculator. But when I used it the last time the new H-influx were not yet integrated, only the old influx series.
http://www.samsung.com/led/support/tools/engine-calculator/
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Randomblame
Well-Known Member
@bärenjude
Yea, Q-series is currently the most efficient strip. F-series have become significantly more expensive in recent weeks probably because Samsung prefers to sell LM301b products.
if you compare the datasheets of H-influx and Q-series the latter seems to be at least one flux bin better. But as long as we have no answer from Samsung we don't know that exactly.
I would calculate how many strips of each series I would need and then take what is cheaper.
The new H-influx series is already available for instance at digikey.
One 3000°k L06 H-influx (88 diodes, probably AZ/SJ) is comparable to two Q-series strips(40 diodes, probably AZ/SK)
but eight more diodes could already make up for the difference.
In the end it all depends on which one you get cheaper. I would also look at Arrow. They often make special offers, 10% discounts and such. I got my F-strips 20% cheaper back then... Subscribe to their newletter and you always get informed about discounts.
2ft. H-influx L06
https://www.digikey.de/products/de?keywords=SL-B8V3N80LAWW
2ft. Q-series
https://www.digikey.de/products/de?keywords=SI-B8V101560US
In the days before F-strips were better simply because you could just run them lower to get better efficiency and they still stayed cheaper. However, these times are over as F-strips getting more and more expensive..
Yea, Q-series is currently the most efficient strip. F-series have become significantly more expensive in recent weeks probably because Samsung prefers to sell LM301b products.
if you compare the datasheets of H-influx and Q-series the latter seems to be at least one flux bin better. But as long as we have no answer from Samsung we don't know that exactly.
I would calculate how many strips of each series I would need and then take what is cheaper.
The new H-influx series is already available for instance at digikey.
One 3000°k L06 H-influx (88 diodes, probably AZ/SJ) is comparable to two Q-series strips(40 diodes, probably AZ/SK)
but eight more diodes could already make up for the difference.
In the end it all depends on which one you get cheaper. I would also look at Arrow. They often make special offers, 10% discounts and such. I got my F-strips 20% cheaper back then... Subscribe to their newletter and you always get informed about discounts.
2ft. H-influx L06
https://www.digikey.de/products/de?keywords=SL-B8V3N80LAWW
2ft. Q-series
https://www.digikey.de/products/de?keywords=SI-B8V101560US
In the days before F-strips were better simply because you could just run them lower to get better efficiency and they still stayed cheaper. However, these times are over as F-strips getting more and more expensive..
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bärenjude
Member
Can you help me with Calculatoin?
I'm a big noob in this business
I got a Calculating Excel Sheet for F ahnd H Series, but I dont know how to calculate it for myself...
I've uploaded the calculation for the planned Setup.
Do you think 1200PPFD is to high?
Should I wait for the H-Influx series? (ATM my xca3070 is still working )
I'm a big noob in this business
I got a Calculating Excel Sheet for F ahnd H Series, but I dont know how to calculate it for myself...I've uploaded the calculation for the planned Setup.
Do you think 1200PPFD is to high?
Should I wait for the H-Influx series? (ATM my xca3070 is still working
)Attachments
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
Can you help me with Calculatoin?
I'm a big noob in this business
I've uploaded the calculation for the planned Setup.
Do you think 1200PPFD is to high?
Should I wait for the H-Influx series? (ATM my xca3070 is still working
Yepp, I can.
At first I need to know how big the area is you want to illuminate? Is it 2x 3' and 1x 3'?
Is it for only one area or do you need two lamps?
1200μMol/s/m² would be too much goodness unless you plan to use additional CO². If not the sweet spot would be 700-800μMol/s/m² and therefor you only need 30-35w/sft. The tops will anyway grow closer to the lamp and gets higher PPFD.
For 6ft² or 30x 90cm bloom area 210w would be enough, for 3ft² or 30x 90cm veg area a third of that would be enough. Is the smaller area for vegging?
Q- and H-influx are already available you can use the links above.. both are in stock.
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
And of course I have to know what degree of efficiency you want to achieve. Are you satisfied with 175lm/w(2,5μMol/J) or should it be 190(2,7μMol/J) or even 200lm/w(2,85μMol/J)?
bärenjude
Member
Nice
The Area is 1mx1m, i dont need two lamps, there is no veg and flower zone. But the size of the strips are bad for 1mx1m. So i've decided to make 2 lamps. One 60cm x 90cm with the 56cm strips and one 30cm x 90cm with the 27cm strips.
I dont want to use additional Co2,Just want the Highest possible PPFD (that make sense), the grow reports i've saw with highest yield, always are arround 1150PPFD, thats why i thougt to go on 1200.
The efficiency ist second-rate, maximum Light output is what i need. (as much as it make sense) , more efficency is always good but not that important. If I'fe to spend a few bucks more and have efficency and max light i will invest these bucks.
Hope I explained it that you can understand
The Area is 1mx1m, i dont need two lamps, there is no veg and flower zone. But the size of the strips are bad for 1mx1m. So i've decided to make 2 lamps. One 60cm x 90cm with the 56cm strips and one 30cm x 90cm with the 27cm strips.
I dont want to use additional Co2,Just want the Highest possible PPFD (that make sense), the grow reports i've saw with highest yield, always are arround 1150PPFD, thats why i thougt to go on 1200.
The efficiency ist second-rate, maximum Light output is what i need. (as much as it make sense) , more efficency is always good but not that important. If I'fe to spend a few bucks more and have efficency and max light i will invest these bucks.
Hope I explained it that you can understand
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
Okay, copied...
You could use 15pcs of 95cm long U-channels(U-Profile, 20x 20x 20x 1mm) to mount 1 and 2 footers in one row. Later you could use two drivers to run them separately. 2footers are powered in parallel from the right side, 1footer from the left side. This way you can build one big 95x 95cm fixture with two drivers and one 50k poti to dimm both drivers in once.
A HLG-240H-24B(10,5A) could be used for 15pcs 2ft. Q-strips in parallel(~700mA) and a HLG-120H-12B(10A) could be used for 15pcs 1ft. Q-strips in parallel(~670mA). This way both typs of strips would run with almost the same current and brightness and you can use one single 50k poti to use them like one big ~400w fixture. The difference should not be visible with the naked eye(~4%).
At ~700mA Q-Series in 3500°k would still deliver ~190lm/w(198lm/w at 450mA) that's 2,7μMol/J or ~2,5-2,6μMol/J at system level(depending on canopy distance). I would call that top notch!
Total output would be ~390w net and ~420w total(at the wall), probably up to 410/440w because Meanwell HLG-driver always have a bit more power. Total PPF output would be at least 1055μMol/s (at 390w net, maybe 1110 at 410w net), so pretty close to your desired 1150.
Part-list
--------------
- 1x HLG-240H-24B is ~70$
- 1x HLG-120H-12B is ~50$
Best source in europe is tme.eu.com because they ship from poland
- 15x 2 ft. Q-series is ~170$
- 15x 1ft. Q-series is ~90$
Best source is digikey because you only need to add 19% MwSt. but no custom fees because they ship from EU external storage
______________________________
Total ~380$ + VAT/custom fees(or in your case 19% MwSt.) means ~400€ total
9pcs 1m aluminum U-channels(e3ay) are ~60€ and two 1m L-channels are ~12€, hanging kit, single core wires, wago connectors, wall plugs, potentiometer, screws and other misc parts are probably another 100€.
The whole fixture could be done for ~500€. Pretty cheap for such a bad ass light..
You could use 15pcs of 95cm long U-channels(U-Profile, 20x 20x 20x 1mm) to mount 1 and 2 footers in one row. Later you could use two drivers to run them separately. 2footers are powered in parallel from the right side, 1footer from the left side. This way you can build one big 95x 95cm fixture with two drivers and one 50k poti to dimm both drivers in once.
A HLG-240H-24B(10,5A) could be used for 15pcs 2ft. Q-strips in parallel(~700mA) and a HLG-120H-12B(10A) could be used for 15pcs 1ft. Q-strips in parallel(~670mA). This way both typs of strips would run with almost the same current and brightness and you can use one single 50k poti to use them like one big ~400w fixture. The difference should not be visible with the naked eye(~4%).
At ~700mA Q-Series in 3500°k would still deliver ~190lm/w(198lm/w at 450mA) that's 2,7μMol/J or ~2,5-2,6μMol/J at system level(depending on canopy distance). I would call that top notch!
Total output would be ~390w net and ~420w total(at the wall), probably up to 410/440w because Meanwell HLG-driver always have a bit more power. Total PPF output would be at least 1055μMol/s (at 390w net, maybe 1110 at 410w net), so pretty close to your desired 1150.
Part-list
--------------
- 1x HLG-240H-24B is ~70$
- 1x HLG-120H-12B is ~50$
Best source in europe is tme.eu.com because they ship from poland
- 15x 2 ft. Q-series is ~170$
- 15x 1ft. Q-series is ~90$
Best source is digikey because you only need to add 19% MwSt. but no custom fees because they ship from EU external storage
______________________________
Total ~380$ + VAT/custom fees(or in your case 19% MwSt.) means ~400€ total
9pcs 1m aluminum U-channels(e3ay) are ~60€ and two 1m L-channels are ~12€, hanging kit, single core wires, wago connectors, wall plugs, potentiometer, screws and other misc parts are probably another 100€.
The whole fixture could be done for ~500€. Pretty cheap for such a bad ass light..
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Randomblame
Well-Known Member
You can of course use less strips in parallel to safe a few bucks, 12 and 12pcs should be okay. Max. current is 900mA for Q-series strips, pretty sure 11+11 strips would work too.(400€) You will only loose some efficiencyy with less strips in parallel. With 15+15 I tried to achieve a mediocre to good efficiency.
With 18+18 (600€) it should be ~2,85μMol/J or 200lm/w efficiency and 1100μMol/s/m² min(390w) and 1170 max.(410w).
With 18+18 (600€) it should be ~2,85μMol/J or 200lm/w efficiency and 1100μMol/s/m² min(390w) and 1170 max.(410w).
bärenjude
Member
Thanks a Lot!
So when I compare your calculation with the F and H Stripes, I think the Q's are less efficient?
when I run
15x of F562B at 700mA 229.12W (efficiency ~59.5% PPFD: ~1226)
15x of H282D at 350mA 118.10W ((efficiency ~56.3% PPFD: ~1196)
Total W: ~348W
With the Q Strips I will have ~400W and ~1050PPFD
So I wil save about 50W and have a little bit more PPFD. The only disadvantage is that the F and H Strips costs a bit more. (arround 60bucks)
Or do I forget something? Did I do something wrong ?
I think for the Lifetime of the Panel the more costs are ok. Big advantage: lower heat.
This setup is 10% more efficent then my CXA3070 Setup and has 50W lower consumption.
Back to the PPDF Do you think the 1200 is ok? I Know that its not the best efficient way. But Can I use the additional PPDF from 800 to 1150 or are they useless?
So when I compare your calculation with the F and H Stripes, I think the Q's are less efficient?
when I run
15x of F562B at 700mA 229.12W (efficiency ~59.5% PPFD: ~1226)
15x of H282D at 350mA 118.10W ((efficiency ~56.3% PPFD: ~1196)
Total W: ~348W
With the Q Strips I will have ~400W and ~1050PPFD
So I wil save about 50W and have a little bit more PPFD. The only disadvantage is that the F and H Strips costs a bit more. (arround 60bucks)
Or do I forget something? Did I do something wrong ?
I think for the Lifetime of the Panel the more costs are ok. Big advantage: lower heat.
This setup is 10% more efficent then my CXA3070 Setup and has 50W lower consumption.
Back to the PPDF Do you think the 1200 is ok? I Know that its not the best efficient way. But Can I use the additional PPDF from 800 to 1150 or are they useless?
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Randomblame
Well-Known Member
Yea, you drive the F-strips lower in your example(700mA instead 1120mA) this make them more efficient. But if you do the same with Q-strips(with 18+18 or 20+20 maybe) you would beat F-strip numbers easily.
Your F-strip PPFD numbers look also a bit over-estimated, sorry..
Single row F-strips in 3000°k at 700mA(or ~78mA per diode) is ~184lm/w or 2,65μMol/J or 57% efficient. To get the same 2,85μMol/J or 60% F-strip must run with ~525mA.
If you have 348w and even when calculated with 60% efficiency you get only 208,8PAR/w x 4,86μMol/j (QER for LM561c/3000°k) that's only ~1015μMol/s PPF net. With 57% eff. it would be 964μMol/s PPF.
PPFD would be even lower because of driver and wall loss.
Your F-strip PPFD numbers look also a bit over-estimated, sorry..
Single row F-strips in 3000°k at 700mA(or ~78mA per diode) is ~184lm/w or 2,65μMol/J or 57% efficient. To get the same 2,85μMol/J or 60% F-strip must run with ~525mA.
If you have 348w and even when calculated with 60% efficiency you get only 208,8PAR/w x 4,86μMol/j (QER for LM561c/3000°k) that's only ~1015μMol/s PPF net. With 57% eff. it would be 964μMol/s PPF.
PPFD would be even lower because of driver and wall loss.
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Randomblame
Well-Known Member
You can always use more light but take into account it's a lot more difficult to keep the plants healthy.
You need probably a better exaust fan to keep temps around or below 30°C and you need probably a humidifier to keep humidity around 60% with light on.
Is the humidity to low the vapor pressure inside the leafes get's too high. This means the plants transpire more water and roots take up more water and nutriens. If the VPD is for instance 25% too low you need to lower the nutrient strength by the same margin to avoid issues with too much nutrient uptake. With too high VPD usually the roots take up too much calcium. Too much calcium looks out magnesium and iron.
If you use a hydro system it's pretty easy to lower your nutrient strength, with soil it's a bit different. If available the nutrients will be absorbed and it's almost impossible to adress the problem unless you lower the light intensity to get lower temps inside the tent. Lower temps means you need less humidity to get a good VPD.
The chart below is already calculated with -2°C leaf temps. Means you can use it with white LED light.
You need probably a better exaust fan to keep temps around or below 30°C and you need probably a humidifier to keep humidity around 60% with light on.
Is the humidity to low the vapor pressure inside the leafes get's too high. This means the plants transpire more water and roots take up more water and nutriens. If the VPD is for instance 25% too low you need to lower the nutrient strength by the same margin to avoid issues with too much nutrient uptake. With too high VPD usually the roots take up too much calcium. Too much calcium looks out magnesium and iron.
If you use a hydro system it's pretty easy to lower your nutrient strength, with soil it's a bit different. If available the nutrients will be absorbed and it's almost impossible to adress the problem unless you lower the light intensity to get lower temps inside the tent. Lower temps means you need less humidity to get a good VPD.
The chart below is already calculated with -2°C leaf temps. Means you can use it with white LED light.