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ChiefRunningPhist

Well-Known Member
Getting flashbacks to uni years, t-tests and statistics, p hacking et all...

Contrasting the study with Nachoos grow: he used drasticly less uvb than this study, i thinkit works out as sixhundredfifty-ish Joule over what i understand as one meter. Even if its just half a meter its still only a tenth of what they used in the study and he was happy with the results even though they werent quantified better than breaking out in cold sweats by smoking it. but he also had a full spead of uva, about ten percent of total wattage at end of flower. But i think he got the uvb well distributed over cannopy.
His was 285nm though too.

I think he was at 60mW/m2 for 3.5hrs/day.

0.06W = 0.06J/s
(0.06J/s) ÷ (1m2) × (60s/min) × (60min/hr) × (3.5hrs)
=
756J/m2; 0.756kJ/m2·day

Jump in here @nachooo, I can't remember if that's right...
 

Moflow

Well-Known Member
Ha ha.........I gambled without reading the study, I lost.

Nice chief. Only place left his work would be is in riu sprinkled around. Advanced marijuana discussions?
I Google searched

 

nachooo

Well-Known Member
His was 285nm though too.

I think he was at 60mW/m2 for 3.5hrs/day.

0.06W = 0.06J/s
(0.06J/s) ÷ (1m2) × (60s/min) × (60min/hr) × (3.5hrs)
=
756J/m2; 0.756kJ/m2·day

Jump in here @nachooo, I can't remember if that's right...
Yes, you are correct I used the four seoul viosys leds at 150 ma....a little more than the suggested 100ma..but the still not at the maximun current recommended.. so 15 mw per led.. 4 leds..60 mw 3,5 hours day ..but this schedule started at 30 minutes in veg and slowly ramping to the 3,5 hours in full flower..When I up to more than 3,5 hours I started to see sign of UVB stress...in fact I see some uvb stress signs at 3,5 also...but I keep the dosing time cause seems plants can cope with it....

Distribution of the 4 leds in the one square meter tent was more or less similar than the dots in a 4 dice side
 

Rocket Soul

Well-Known Member
Yes, you are correct I used the four seoul viosys leds at 150 ma....a little more than the suggested 100ma..but the still not at the maximun current recommended.. so 15 mw per led.. 4 leds..60 mw 3,5 hours day ..but this schedule started at 30 minutes in veg and slowly ramping to the 3,5 hours in full flower..When I up to more than 3,5 hours I started to see sign of UVB stress...in fact I see some uvb stress signs at 3,5 also...but I keep the dosing time cause seems plants can cope with it....
So 4 leds, at 150ma, over what area? Whats your diode spacing? I believe you had around 25cm hanging height?
 

ChiefRunningPhist

Well-Known Member
I Google searched

@PSUAGRO. it seems like he knew his stuff! @Moflow thanks for the links, it's nice to see actual lab reports. Interesting, his assessment on other UV fluoro besides the Arcadia's.
 

ChiefRunningPhist

Well-Known Member
Just some rando...





13.4kJ/day UVB:

[(13.4kJ/m^2) × (1000J/1kJ) × (1m^2/10,000cm^2) × (1,000,000μJ/1J)]
÷
[(6hrs) × (60min/hr) × (60s/min)]
=
62μW/cm^2 @ 6hrs/day

Their measurements were weighted toward 300nm, although idk if they followed Caldwell's weighted action curve exactly, or just created a normal distribution curve centered at 300nm.
1557208627668.png

Humans use a weighted scale when determining the risk of sun exposure called the ultraviolet index. This weighting that's applied to the emitted UVB puts more value in certain individual wavelengths within the UVB range (280nm - 320nm) than others. It's actually very drastic, so much so that if you were to compare a 297nm WV to a 319nm WV (only 22nm seperate the 2 WV's, they are very close) using the Ultaviolet Index method, the 297nm would be multipled by a 100% weighting factor, while the 319nm would be multiplied by a ~1% weighting factor (refer to erythemal action curve).
1556166298031~2.png
Every WV has a corresponding erythemal weight that will be applied or multiplied. All these individual results are added up and then the total is divided by 25mW/m2 to arrive at a UVI. So UVI is a 2 part or 3 part calculation. First you'd multiply the actual intensity of the WV being emitted (mW/m2) by the weighting factor or by the corresponding erythmal %, then you'd add up all the results of those multiplications, and finally you'd divide the total sum by 25mW/m2 to arrive at a calculated UVI.

For the sake of argument let's say you only had (1) 297nm LED, and (1) 319nm LED, both emitting 10mW/m2 of UVB radiation.


10mW/m2 @ 297nm × (100%)
=
10mW/m2 of weighted UVB

10mW/m2 @ 319nm × (1%)
=
0.1mW/m2 of weighted UVB


10mW/m2 of erythmally weighted UVB from 297nm
+
0.1mW/m2 of erythemally weighted UVB from 319nm
=
10.1mW/m2 total of erythemally weighted UVB


(10.1mW/m2) ÷ (25mW/m2)
=
0.414; 0.4 UVI


^^All that is just to show how drastic the change in effect is with only a small change in WV. At 297nm all of the emission is effective, while at 319nm only 1% is effective. This realization that certain wavelengths effect us more or less within a given range, is also the same realization noticed with plants, certain WVs have much greater effect on other WV's even if they are all within the "UVB" range.

The study was weigting the UVB emitted from the fs-40 lamps around 300nm just like we weight UV around 297nm when calculating a UVI. This means that the ~62μW/cm2 @ 6hrs/day, or the 13.4kJ/m2·day, is not the whole story and not the target intensity of "generic" UVB one should strive to achieve for similar results. 62μW/cm2 was weighted around 300nm so the actual total amount of UVB was probably much greater.

Here's Caldwell's weighting curve (blue curve, "1") used in the study to calculate the % of effectiveness per WV for plants, ie action (within the UVB range at least).
image4.gif
Screenshot_2019-11-30-16-22-30~2.png

This is a fs-40 lamp SPD...
download (5).jpeg

It looks like it peaks around ~312nm. They'd have multiplied each WV's intensity on the fs-40 by the corresponding effective % from Caldwell's action curve. Or they'd have multiplied each WV's intensity on the fs-40 by a corresponding effective % from a normal distribution curve they made up but influenced by Caldwell's action spectrum and centered around 300nm. I'm just not comprehending what exactly they mean by...

"weighted with a generalized plant action
spectrum (UV-B,,, Caldwell, 1971), normalized at 300nm."

Screenshot_2019-11-30-17-26-27~2.png

In conclusion, we don't have a clue except by trial and error lol. Generally the THC does go up as shown here and other places, but as far as determining what WV's and what intensities via this study is going to be difficult. If you are using 300nm LED, then I'd assume you could closely mimic the weighted intensities documented and realize similar results, though the intensities stated are not total UVB but rather weighted UVB and the fs-40 extends considerably more into lower WV UVB than a typical reptile bulb, so I'd imagine you'd want even more than stated in the study if using an arcadia ect.

Here's an overlay of the fs-40 (faded green) and an Acadia 12% (black)...
1575170826240~2.png

**
On a side note, I was trying to estimate UVI previously without digitizing the SPD, I've since found a free graph digitizer which could be implemented to back calculate a UVI from a total UVB measuremt in μW/cm2. It also means that you could calculate a UVI with a PPFD measuremt and the relative SPD of a source (if the PPFD meter picked up UVB radiation).

Graph digitizer...
 
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PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
@PSUAGRO. it seems like he knew his stuff! @Moflow thanks for the links, it's nice to see actual lab reports. Interesting, his assessment on other UV fluoro besides the Arcadia's.
He had a dedicated thread in the advanced section? Can't find it....... He is missed, a wealth of info & helped my indoor game. Pleasant internet presence unless you rubbed him wrong, lol , like all of us I suppose.

He's probably growing/smoking some fire in the after life. We will meet again;-) if I play nice ..
 

ChiefRunningPhist

Well-Known Member
Hey guys I've been reading up a bit on UVB & photomorphogenic responses. I've come across this paper that seems to point to 290nm - 300nm as the most effective WV range for our purposes. I'm not comprehending everything yet, but it seems to shift my proposed 285nm longer towards maybe 295nm or even 300nm, but anyways I figured I'd drop the link to let you guys take a peek for yourselves...

Screenshot_2019-12-01-13-35-24~2.png
 
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