New light or????

Discussion in 'LED and other Lighting' started by Gorillaglue4u, Feb 7, 2018.


    Humple Well-Known Member

    The thing you may not be considering is that a lot of the people who are making the claim that mid-power diode-based lights offer better penetration are former COB users. So they at least have personal experience on their side in this debate. Why don't you complete a grow with strips and then decide who's right?
    Randomblame likes this.
    Olive Drab Green

    Olive Drab Green Well-Known Member

    Ah. I apologize. I had just woken up from 2-3 hours of sleep, so I was grumpy and mistook you for attacking me. I’m sorry. That was more than kind of dickish.
    GrowLightResearch likes this.
    Olive Drab Green

    Olive Drab Green Well-Known Member

    I already said I was going to. I argue that F-strips probably work better with a COB core. Intensity, plus multiple sources of light around the edges to open it up.

    GrowLightResearch Well-Known Member

    I like this analogy. I would go with the intensity being the number of rain drops of the same size hitting a puddle. In a high intensity rain more rain drops would be hitting the puddle per second than in a lighter (less intensity) rain storm.

    Mist was a great analogy for diffused light. Like the plastic over the canopy diffusing the light, a screen over the canopy would "diffuse" the rain drops into a mist.

    Because light spreads out as the distance it travels increases, the number of photon hitting an area, similar to number of rain drops hitting a puddle, the light's intensity decreases.

    If rain were to spread out like photons the higher the cloud drops would spread more it would and fewer of it's rain drops would would hit the puddle than a low cloud.

    Now if a high cloud was dropping a lot more rain than the low cloud, the same number rain drops from high cloud may hit the puddle as the number from the low cloud. This would be the equivalent of PPFD being the same for both clouds.

    Here is the tricky part to understand. Let's say the puddle was on top of a skyscraper. If there was a puddle, the same size, on the ground, how would that affect the number of rain drops hitting the puddle on the ground from each cloud? This would be the equivalent of penetration.

    Same applies to the sun, and a 1000W HPS at 1 meter over the canopy vs. a fixture 12" over the canopy.. Look at the puddle on top the skyscraper as the top of the canopy and the puddle on the ground as deep into the canopy.
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
    Olive Drab Green

    Olive Drab Green Well-Known Member

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    1212ham Well-Known Member

    All this talk about penetration... Serious question, what is it that is being "penetrated"? Isn't it something best left to the bedroom? o_O

    swedsteven Well-Known Member

    Weed seem to love penetretion to !
    @cob grower

    Next thing will be using super hd led samsung 4'×4' plasma grow tv you can even listen ur favorite chanel any k and nm lol
    Olive Drab Green likes this.

    GrowLightResearch Well-Known Member

    If a light source is a few inches over a puddle with a square area of 1 m². and 2000 µmols of photons hit the puddle each second. That would be about the same number of photons from the sun hitting the puddle.

    Now raise the light source to a few feet over the puddle. Much less photons will hit the puddle. But still the same number of photons (insignificantly less) would reach the puddle if the puddle were raised a few feet (to the top of the canopy).

    So would that not imply it's not only the PPFD but also the distance between light source and the puddle?

    A CoB emitting the same number of photons as a 4" strip would have the same number of photons hitting the canopy of a large grow area. The strip's photons would hit more plants and leaves than the CoB. The CoB would hit fewer leaves but would hit them each with more photons.

    The only advantage to the strip is the photons are spread out more uniformly across more plants.

    This would be an advantage if when the plants were short and the canopy thin, you could lower the strips closer to the canopy and reduce the current (intensity). Then as the plant grow you increase the distance between the strips and canopy, and increase the current/intensity while maintaining the same PPFD at the top of the canopy. This would save electricity while maintaining penetration.

    Strips beat CoBs in lm/W ratio, price per lumen, and the cost of heatsinks. Otherwise it's in how they are used that makes the difference. CoBs may have more limitations in how they are used. I prefer strips over CoBs. I prefer strippers over CoBers.
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
    Randomblame likes this.

    mahiluana Well-Known Member

    there will be ~ 75% of produced heat power with led - and ~ 80% with hps
    you can estimate 450w VS 800w to compare the heat production of a 600w led lamp vs a 1000w hps

    heat management is a main issue for mostly all lamps, bulbs...

    below you see 6 x 100w chip in parallel @ 30V * 330mA (10 W driver)
    if you drive a chip at low current - light efficiency increase but they still produce more or less the same heat. A 100w chip which is rated @ 3000mA max. current can produce ~75w of heat and your heat management(heatsink + fans) is expensive and need additional energy (like the ac you wanted to buy) to stay below 100°C chip temp.
    A 100w chip @ only ~ 50 mA is high efficient and with only 1,65w produce ~1,2w of heat power. Without any heatsink the chip reach only handwarm 40°C

    Longlife of a cool diy build is a must - efficiency also... and there are millions of options in between.
    I go as a diy led watercooler, because harvesting the still enormeous heat production of led light
    in a heatexchanger can easily triple the energy efficiency of your lamp build.

    If heat in the grow room is a problem in summer you can --> take it out (and use it)
    if cold " " " " " " " " winter you can bring the heat back in the night and heat your grow room.

    a 8$ / m rectangular aluminium tube is the cheapest, best heatsink that i know.
    to have a basic investment with your grow size i would go with:
    - 100-120L electr.-boiler with integr. heatexchanger, brandnew can cost you 200,- US$ but you can use any "free" water tank and a serpentine pipe.
    - aluminium tube ~ 30-50,- US$
    - hose, pump + fittings ~30,- US$
    - i.e. 3 x mean well elg240h-????mA ~130,- US$

    and then have a long, interesting walk through the led chip gallery and spent hours and nights
    to find the right led chip: mid power, high power, strips and plates, cheap and expensive, ....comparing
    lm/w, cri, ppfd, par.......................(:......................and the morning sun

    ...going cheap and less efficient can start with 63,- US$ for 9 chips as below.
    or going more efficient - buying the best chips light efficiency and big quantities to run them at low current - can bring you close to the most efficient lamp build ever....(90% energy efficacy)

    as you see in the pic - a cob led is nothing else than a "mini" chip board
    and 10 cobs spreaded over the area of a bigger chip platine like quantum boards will have
    ~ the same effect - the heat get dissipated better over a bigger surface of chip platine
    and the basic is Vf + If , how many in series and/or parallel in any nanometers or cri

    for me the ability to watercool a led chip makes the difference vs hps or any other light
    taking a hot shower + growing indoor your own vegetables can be a mighty tool against climate change - -------------------- if you power your light with renewables


    GrowLightResearch Well-Known Member

    @Olive Drab Green Another good analogy. Those Dr Seuss pages pretty much sums up the complexity of photons.
    Olive Drab Green likes this.

    GrowLightResearch Well-Known Member

    I still love the ingenuity that went into your water cooled CoBs where the water is in contact with the CoB's thermal pad. Then using a heat exchanger to recover and reuse the heat, genius.
    mahiluana and Olive Drab Green like this.

    wietefras Well-Known Member

    True, you always say everybody (but you) is wrong and you never offer anything of substance.

    Although, perhaps if you would dry all the bullshit, perhaps you could build a new house out of it?
    Olive Drab Green

    Olive Drab Green Well-Known Member

    In Afghanistan, they build their houses out of mud, straw, shit, and animal hair. I’ve seen those walls take an RPG and barely be left with a dent.
    swedsteven likes this.

    mahiluana Well-Known Member

    it`s not genuis to fix a led chip on a flat aluminium surface
    it`s not genuis to transport the heat in a waterflow, as we do it every day in our cars and oil / gas central heating thing.
    it`s not genuis to discover, that god ol sun was the first light-heat-cogeneration close in our univers
    it`s not genuis to cut and drill aluminium tubes at all - lots of people do it every day.
    it`s not genuis to recover all the comun knowledge and put it into a small led lamp build -
    and create a little ?00w led sun that everyday can save your life - giving you calories to struggle against your physical and spiritual needs.
    but "water + watercooled" itself is a genuis thing - but heat capacity and other abnormalties or records and fittings of H²O are godgiven or inside evolution(the whole globe adapted to water and the water adapt only to gravity and temperature. - and I`m shure, if there is a way to cool down climate change - it will be a watercooled one.

    No idea how many kcalories I can cool down with 4L of beer/day - but must be around 2400kcal - this was my only genuis effort today :eyesmoke: THANKS - but me genuis ? It`s not my fault
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
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    Olive Drab Green

    Olive Drab Green Well-Known Member


    Just saying.
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    mahiluana Well-Known Member little dick often helps identify little vaginas... (100% :clap:)
    ... and sometimes i wish to have 2 or 3 or as many as possible...
    ...but Picasso as an artist said: searching is not important -
    ... only finding is important !

    nxsov180db Well-Known Member

    Why do you talk about sucking dick so much?
    This pretty much proves your IQ is no where near 149 and actually below average, I'm guessing around 80 or 90. A single light source in nature (the Sun) works so well and penetrates so wonderfully because of the intensity and distance. The photons are coming straight down no matter where you are for the most part. Now take an HPS and put it 2 feet above the canopy, directly under it you have great penetration, the photons are coming straight down. Now move 2 feet to the left or right and you have lost a lot of penetration and the photons are now coming at a 45 degree angle, this is why multiple light sources always win.
    Randomblame and mahiluana like this.
    Olive Drab Green

    Olive Drab Green Well-Known Member

    Except it’s exactly 149. That must really bother you.

    Olive Drab Green

    Olive Drab Green Well-Known Member

    Also, Nx, you are really stupid. HPS is omnidirectional. It doesn’t go straight anywhere except out.
    GrowLightResearch likes this.
    Olive Drab Green

    Olive Drab Green Well-Known Member

    Whatever you’re into, man. :eyesmoke:

    Are you angry because I had to help you learn to spell genius? Going to obsess over me like Nx’s thirsty ass?

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