New Led Or Not ?
- Thread starter maxpesh
- Start date
Spuzzum
Well-Known Member
They have "some", but not at the same ratio the panels utilize 660nm. But if you figure HPS does pretty damn good as it is, then "maybe" 10% is really all that's needed.
Spuzzum
Well-Known Member
I agree that there's not enough blue being used in the commercial panels.. that's why my design is loaded with blue.. both from monochromatic diodes, as well as the CoolWhites, and WarmWhites.. somewhat.
My personal belief.. the best gardens out there, incorporate BOTH hps and mh.. at a 3:2 ratio of hps:mh. Blue is very important for foliage growth.. bigger, broader leaves.. the more energy the plant can collect at once from the light source. It also promotes tighter nodes, so more weight per plant at the same height as a plant grown exclusively under hps.
I personally think these commercial panels would benefit from a larger percentage of blue. Maybe even try for a 3:2 ratio with the LEDs.
I even want to try "just" WarmWhite and CoolWhite.. similar to using fluoros. The spectral range of both covers basically everything we're looking for, and the output is at least double what the monochromatic diodes put out. There's at least one other member over at greenpinelane who's going to try as well.
Spuzzum
Well-Known Member
Sorry man.. missed this earlier..
As for "kits"... if you're looking for kits like the reefers.. ie: pre-drilled heatsinks, drivers, and stars.. the best I can suggest, is the pre-drilled heatsinks from those shops, then get the coloured diodes from either cutterelectronics (or similar), or even "theledstore".. also owned by Mark.. owner of cutterelectronics. He's selling diodes for growers.
http://www.theledstore.com.au/product_p/ls0057.htm
Drivers can be bought from any of those stores.. BuckPucks are the simplest to use, and ledsupply seems to be the cheapest for those.
http://www.ledsupply.com/buckpuck.php
puffenuff
Well-Known Member
No it wont. Advanced's also have different specs than that one...come on dude!
Spuzzum
Well-Known Member
That's who Advanced commissions to make "their" panels. You can get alternative spectrums, just need to ask.
I've been told they also have different case options.. not sure if that's just colour or what though. But the "case" isn't what makes them grow...
ps: I'd post the actual E.shine catalogue, but it's too big for upload.
puffenuff
Well-Known Member
That's who Advanced commissions to make "their" panels. You can get alternative spectrums, just need to ask.
I've been told they also have different case options.. not sure if that's just colour or what though. But the "case" isn't what makes them grow...
Thats true, but max said that e.shine panel, would perform just like advanced...the standard config shown is different than advanced...so thats why I corrected max because without the same configs/specs...it wont perform the same...
Spuzzum
Well-Known Member
Only thing "different" that "I" can see, is the mention of "11 wavelengths".. these are filled in by the whites.
For instance.. look at what Cree whites put out...
Pretty easy to see where they get their "11 wavelengths" from..
It's just "creative advertising".
Eraserhead
Well-Known Member
I finally got Eshine to tell me Advanced's spectrum. Believe me, it is nothing special, nowhere near 11 spectrum. 7 colors + 1 white.
Only thing "different" that "I" can see, is the mention of "11 wavelengths".. these are filled in by the whites.
For instance.. look at what Cree whites put out...
Pretty easy to see where they get their "11 wavelengths" from..
It's just "creative advertising".
puffenuff
Well-Known Member
Spuzz, all I was saying was that the standard e.shine config is not the same as advanced's, which it isnt. Im noy saying you cant get one similar to it, but that standard wasnt even close. Using white to fill the spectrum gaps may not give the same results either, I dot know that but there's no point in trying to argue anything about advanced here as the focus is on max and his secret project.
Spuzzum
Well-Known Member
Sorry man.. wasn't trying to argue.. was just giving an opinion. Buddy has the DS300, and says that's the same panel.
Spuzzum
Well-Known Member
Unless you are using InfraReds.. even 735nm's at the proper ratio.. you'd be better off directing that heat back down to the plants. The one thing that's becoming quite apparent with LEDs.. the "lack of heat" is actually a "downfall" when it comes to gardening. The plants aren't transpiring anywhere near what they should be.. thus less water intake, which also means less nutrient uptake.. ie: smaller plants that are suffering from Calcium deficiency.. among other things. You won't get anywhere near the gram/watt that a hid gives unless the plants transpire at the proper rate. My panel's going to have at least 60W of 735nm, if not closer to 100W with what's added by what's in the whites. Buddy with a Magnum has already added fluoros to his grow... guess what? Drinking more, and looking healthier.
I gave that ledgrow.eu guy the tip.. and guess what? He's now adding more of the FarReds as I suggested.. but claiming it's "his" idea... lol!
maxpesh
Active Member
The only thing I am in two minds about at the moment is the 60 or 90 degree lens ? The climate here is the same as Florida 17C in the winter and 26c in the Summer. Just trying to find a happy medium !
puffenuff
Well-Known Member
Yes, I agree that more far red is a good thing. Thats why I bought supplemental far red lighting for my grows. There's supposedly other benefits from them too. I would think if you go with more than usual 60degree lens would be best because more leds means more coverage if spaced properly, otherwise you could do a couple fewer and use 90 degree to get the coverage and blend. Far red should penetrate further to begin with if im not mistaken?
Spuzzum
Well-Known Member
I'd go with the 90°, but really depends on the grid/spread of your diodes/wavelengths.
Example.. the reef tank community uses "only" CoolWhites and RoyalBlues.
Code:
CW RB CW RB CW RB CW RB CW RB CW RB
RB CW RB CW RB CW RB CW RB CW RB CWThey use the 60° lenses for their setups, but they also only use 2 diodes, meaning only 2 "colours" to mix into 1. 60° blends 2 diodes side-by-side quite easily. Blending 6 or more diodes together.. "evenly" is a little harder if only 60°.. unless the panel is raised to a level high enough until all the beams are evenly blended. That means higher above the canopy, which also means less intensity.
Now if you used 90° lenses, it's going to mix the diodes a lot easier, and more efficiently.. at a lower height above the canopy.
Also.. regardless what the temp are in Florida.. you're going to sell these, right? I mean.. this isn't just some class project.. right? If so.. then your "customers" won't necessarily be living in summer temps all year round. It's more important to think of them before your own grow.
By the way.. life's a lot easier if you stick to being in "one mind" at a time...
Spuzzum
Well-Known Member
I should also mention, if I didn't already...
They used to tell us a panel consisting of both 1w and 3w diodes wasn't good, and that they should all be 3w. Personally.. I think that's incorrect. Reason being.. a blue diode needs twice as much energy to equal a red diode's output.
Here's from the Cree XP-E datas...
For the 450nm Royal Blues it's a bit harder to calculate, as they're measured in photon energy.. or whatever, but the 470nm Blues are 30.6 lumen @ 350mA, and require 3.2v at that amperage. The 630nm reds on the other hand, give off 56.8 lumen @ 350mA, while only requiring 2.1v.
Blues: 3.2v * 350mA = 1.12w.
Reds: 2.1v * 350mA = 735mW (not even 1 watt).
That's a difference of 385mW more for the blues (@ 350mA), and they still produce 26.2 lumen less than the reds. That's why Cree only makes 1w colours (1.5w actually), and 3w blues and whites.
They told us lumen mean nothing when it comes to LEDs and plants. But if you really think about it, an LED is a "monochromatic" diode.. at least the coloured ones are. So just using common sense.. if one 630nm red diode put out twice as much lumen as another 630nm red diode, then obviously the panel with more "630nm red lumen" will be better than the other panel. Same goes for the blues.. higher the lumen/mW of energy, the better the panel.
But that's "only" if whoever designed the damn thing actually took that into account. If buddy lays out his pattern, thinking he has a great mixture/ratio of reds to blues.. but keeps the blues at the same wattage as the reds.. diode per diode.. guess what? His ratio is no longer what he thought it was. If he was targeting equal amounts of energy from the blue diodes as the red diodes when designing his mix.. it's not going to happen unless he either bumps up the number of blues to reds ratio, or leaves the reds at 1w, and the blues at 2w.. or there abouts. Nobody cranks them to a full 3w.. if they do, don't buy it.. it won't last the 5 years or whatever the diodes are rated for.
Personally I think some of these panels fail just because of that... way more red to blue than what's needed for healthy growth.
They used to tell us a panel consisting of both 1w and 3w diodes wasn't good, and that they should all be 3w. Personally.. I think that's incorrect. Reason being.. a blue diode needs twice as much energy to equal a red diode's output.
Here's from the Cree XP-E datas...
For the 450nm Royal Blues it's a bit harder to calculate, as they're measured in photon energy.. or whatever, but the 470nm Blues are 30.6 lumen @ 350mA, and require 3.2v at that amperage. The 630nm reds on the other hand, give off 56.8 lumen @ 350mA, while only requiring 2.1v.
Blues: 3.2v * 350mA = 1.12w.
Reds: 2.1v * 350mA = 735mW (not even 1 watt).
That's a difference of 385mW more for the blues (@ 350mA), and they still produce 26.2 lumen less than the reds. That's why Cree only makes 1w colours (1.5w actually), and 3w blues and whites.
They told us lumen mean nothing when it comes to LEDs and plants. But if you really think about it, an LED is a "monochromatic" diode.. at least the coloured ones are. So just using common sense.. if one 630nm red diode put out twice as much lumen as another 630nm red diode, then obviously the panel with more "630nm red lumen" will be better than the other panel. Same goes for the blues.. higher the lumen/mW of energy, the better the panel.
But that's "only" if whoever designed the damn thing actually took that into account.
If buddy lays out his pattern, thinking he has a great mixture/ratio of reds to blues.. but keeps the blues at the same wattage as the reds.. diode per diode.. guess what? His ratio is no longer what he thought it was. If he was targeting equal amounts of energy from the blue diodes as the red diodes when designing his mix.. it's not going to happen unless he either bumps up the number of blues to reds ratio, or leaves the reds at 1w, and the blues at 2w.. or there abouts. Nobody cranks them to a full 3w.. if they do, don't buy it.. it won't last the 5 years or whatever the diodes are rated for. Personally I think some of these panels fail just because of that... way more red to blue than what's needed for healthy growth.
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Florida is over 500 long miles from tip to tip. The temps vary considerably from north to south. During winter, north FL is often ~ 40-60 degrees, whereas S FL is often 65 -80+.
PSUAGRO.
Well-Known Member
Hey spuzz......Id like to get your thoughts on these new panels that are out that are "full spectrum" white......daystar/isunlight..etc,.
Do you feel they have any chance of good flowering capabilities...or is it just nonsense and a "shotgun" method of distributing a full spectrum....??
Do you feel they have any chance of good flowering capabilities...or is it just nonsense and a "shotgun" method of distributing a full spectrum....??
